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New left wing party. Will it succeed?

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13

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    #62
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    How do you define socially left? I would have thought most would assume socially left equals socially liberal.

    I know, bad sarcasm post on my part.

    Good question -I was wondering myself how that poster was differentiating between socially left and socially liberal

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #63
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Ever since his "We want our money back" speech, I've put him in the Populist Spoofer bracket.

    Which is always a crowded market.


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    #64
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The reason Steven Donnelly entered politics is that he could not believe the stupidity of the bank guarantee.

    His analysis in that speech is exactly right. We got a 'bailout' on condition we paid all of our debts plus those of the failed banks, and that money went largely to other European banks of which many would have failed had not the Irish Government not bailed them out.

    His speech was actually asking for the return of this €64m, which was agreed to (in part) by a EU leaders meeting a few years ago. They have yet to deliver on that agreement.

    So, yes, can we have our money back.


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    #65
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Except the €64 billion Donnelly was demanding was never put into the banks. Which I'm sure he probably well knows.


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    #66
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Good question -I was wondering myself how that poster was differentiating between socially left and socially liberal

    I'm not. Both are left of centre.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #67
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    Brian? wrote: »
    I'm not. Both are left of centre.

    What's the difference between socially liberal and socially left?


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    #68
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Brian? wrote: »
    I'm not. Both are left of centre.

    What? You just differentiated between socially left and socially liberal - could you explain to us what you think the difference is?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #69
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What? You just differentiated between socially left and socially liberal - could you explain to us what you think the difference is?

    Ah I see. I've confused myself here. Apologies.

    I think I meant he's marginally left of centre on social policy, not left wing as in leaning socialist. The whole left/right paradigm is a grey area really.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #70
    ticklemetoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 ✭ticklemetoe


    looks like the euro train is running out of track, the centre right party will lose the election on purpose and put the left in power just before it happens, when the SHTF the left will take the full blame and be unelectable for a generation


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    #71
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Ever since his "We want our money back" speech, I've put him in the Populist Spoofer bracket.

    Which is always a crowded market.

    It's the only real market. We're just haggling over the amount.

    The proliferation of "left" groupings proves that the politicians are in denial that the left will get elected to power in Ireland on any foreseeable basis.

    The proliferation of "right" groupings proves that the electorate are in denial that keeping doing the same thing and calling it something different won't work exactly right the next time.


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    #72
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    This will be Labour under a different name.

    Exactly. This is the "we need a left party, broader than the revolving door of Trots, with a more consistent and internationalist analysis than SF" grouping. Isn't a shame the name "Labour" is taken.

    Or isn't it a shame the name "Labour" is fatally compromised, if you'd rather.


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    #73
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Brian? wrote: »
    Ah I see. I've confused myself here. Apologies.

    I think I meant he's marginally left of centre on social policy, not left wing as in leaning socialist. The whole left/right paradigm is a grey area really.

    There's the "libertarian" zone, which would tell you that drugs, marriage, abortion (most of the time), free speech, freedom of religion, separation of church and states, foreign policy, etc, are the "social axis"...

    ... but that having enough to eat, access to housing, education, and healthcare are "economic axis".

    A lot of European centrist parties would be slightly in that quadrant of the political market. German Free Democrats, incarnation of the LibDems just annihilated in the UK, etc. Amusingly, FF share a European grouping with them... and very little else. (Inherited it from the PDs, really.)


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    #74
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    There's the "libertarian" zone, which would tell you that drugs, marriage, abortion (most of the time), free speech, freedom of religion, separation of church and states, foreign policy, etc, are the "social axis"...

    ... but that having enough to eat, access to housing, education, and healthcare are "economic axis".

    I've seen those charts, I'm convinced they were conceived by libertarians to recruit new members.

    A lot of European centrist parties would be slightly in that quadrant of the political market. German Free Democrats, incarnation of the LibDems just annihilated in the UK, etc. Amusingly, FF share a European grouping with them... and very little else. (Inherited it from the PDs, really.)


    I think we should call that quadrant the "I'll tell you I believe whatever will get me elected" quadrant.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #75
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    Exactly. This is the "we need a left party, broader than the revolving door of Trots, with a more consistent and internationalist analysis than SF" grouping. Isn't a shame the name "Labour" is taken.

    Or isn't it a shame the name "Labour" is fatally compromised, if you'd rather.

    What we need is a broad left party that puts workers rights front and centre. A "Workers Party" if you will. Anyone thought of that?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #76
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Brian? wrote: »
    What we need is a broad left party that puts workers rights front and centre. A "Workers Party" if you will. Anyone thought of that?

    Ireland already had one of those.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_Party_of_Ireland

    Ex members of the party are currently in Government.


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    #77
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    jank wrote: »
    Ireland already had one of those.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_Party_of_Ireland

    Ex members of the party are currently in Government.

    It was a joke. The workers party still exists in a very reduced form.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #78
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    We need a new liberal party.


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    #79
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,907 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Icepick wrote: »
    We need a new liberal party.

    Why? We have FF, FG and Labour. All centrist liberal parties.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #80
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What we need are parties that stay where they claim to be from..

    What we have are a tiny rump of extreme left wing socialists that remain forever true to their cause and then a whole clatter of parties somewhere in the middle floating slightly left and right on the tide of popular opinion...


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    #81
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Icepick wrote: »
    We need a new liberal party.

    We have a parliament full of them. Every party backed SSM, if I remember correctly.


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    #82
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Brian? wrote: »
    Why? We have FF, FG and Labour. All centrist liberal parties.

    Depends on the 'liberal' you speak of.

    They are all statist, 'big government' tax & spenders.

    Socially only Labour could be considered liberal.
    SSM was easy, but neither FF or FG will ever allow a woman abortion rights anywhere near western norms.

    Ireland could do with a liberal party, but we all know, Ireland doesn't want one


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    #83
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    What we have are a tiny rump of extreme left wing socialists that remain forever true to their cause and then a whole clatter of parties somewhere in the middle floating slightly left and right on the tide of popular opinion...

    I'd hardly say that the 8th Amendment and the pro-cyclic boom and bust of the 2000s were the work of "slightly right" parties.


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    #84
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    I'd hardly say that the 8th Amendment and the pro-cyclic boom and bust of the 2000s were the work of "slightly right" parties.

    They were all over the map though.. that's my point...

    Right wing decisions around Finances but then hop over to the left to ramp up social welfare , child benefits , " removing X thousand from the tax net" etc. etc.


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    #85
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Socially only Labour could be considered liberal.
    SSM was easy, but neither FF or FG will ever allow a woman abortion rights anywhere near western norms.

    Divorce, abortion under certain circumstances? No right wing party would ever consider backing them. As for SSM, if they were right wing then it would have been a very easy decision, a clear 'No', without the need to give it a second thought.


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    #86
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    No in answer to OP


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    #87
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Inquitus wrote: »
    No in answer to OP

    I know its been less than a month since I started this thread, but I haven't heard anything from them since.
    I think you're right.


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    #88
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Looks like there will be a formal launch of the new party next week.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shortall-murphy-and-donnelly-form-new-political-grouping-1.2282029


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    #89
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Looks like there will be a formal launch of the new party next week.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/shortall-murphy-and-donnelly-form-new-political-grouping-1.2282029

    Or is that "grouping"?
    IT wrote:
    While Mr Donnelly is seen as tilting towards the right in economic policy, in contrast to the left-leaning views of the other two TDs, all three would be left-of-centre on social policy.
    So... they on economic policy what Renua are on "matters if moral conscience (da bishop told me how ta vote)"? Definitely liberal on "social policy"... social justice there's an opt-out clause on?

    All a little odd, methinks.


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    #90
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Another phone-box party - I think I'll start one next week.

    Our policies? One for everyone in the audience.


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    #91
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The inclusion of Deputy Shortall in this new party is a little worrying, if it means they'll follow through with FG's ridiculous plans to increase the price of a bottle of beer to €2.20...


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