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New left wing party. Will it succeed?

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24

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    #32
    SoupyNorman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    mrduffy wrote: »
    the green party is as green as the paper green.
    1948 forestry act should be abolished.
    More sustainable payments for people with forests

    Eh, thanks for that. :confused:


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    #33
    mrduffy
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭mrduffy


    Are we sustainable with carbon and carbon credits definetly no and much of the western world. We are balancing budgets but not carbon budgets why not ?


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    #34
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    mrduffy wrote: »
    Are we sustainable with carbon and carbon credits definetly no and much of the western world. We are balancing budgets but not carbon budgets why not ?

    I think you're posting in the wrong thread.


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    #35
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    last_one_left wrote: »
    why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party

    I'd agree with you to a certain extent - The Irish political landscape is fairly well stocked from the far left over to slightly right of centre..Nothing much further right though..

    I'm not sure that there is much appetite for for a truly right-wing party though..The entitlement culture here ensures that...


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    #36
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Quin_Dub wrote: »

    I'm not sure that there is much appetite for for a truly right-wing party though..The entitlement culture here ensures that...

    In my experience Irish people in discussions like this only view "Right wing" in the socially conservative perspective.

    I.e. someone opposing divorce, contraception, abortion etc is "right wing"


    I really don't think there is any great support for other "right wing ideologies" other than perhaps when it comes to taxation and business (and then only from a perceived personal gain from lower tax or similar)

    I doubt there are any great numbers looking to support far-right policies about nationalism, immigration etc.


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    #37
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Riskymove wrote: »
    In my experience Irish people in discussions like this only view "Right wing" in the socially conservative perspective.

    I.e. someone opposing divorce, contraception, abortion etc is "right wing"


    I really don't think there is any great support for other "right wing ideologies" other than perhaps when it comes to taxation and business (and then only from a perceived personal gain from lower tax or similar)

    I doubt there are any great numbers looking to support far-right policies about nationalism, immigration etc.
    last_one_left wrote: »
    what holds back the formation of a true conservative party in this country is our media , its vehemently left wing of some shade or other

    the term " conservative " is the ultimate insult when it comes to public discourse in this country

    I don't disagree , but unless you are talking about Libertarianism , what Fiscally right wing party that is not also socially right wing is out there as an example for people as a reference point??


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    #38
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    the groutch wrote: »
    once they don't get Averil Power or Healy-Eames involved they'll be fine.
    Fidelma Healy-Eames? Left wing? Not a hope of that one happening, she's further right than any party.


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    #39
    Robert McGrath
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭Robert McGrath


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I don't disagree , but unless you are talking about Libertarianism , what Fiscally right wing party that is not also socially right wing is out there as an example for people as a reference point??

    I know they're gone but the PD's?


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    #40
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Robert McGrath wrote: »
    I know they're gone but the PD's?

    Probably , but in terms of an example of what a new party might look at it's not a great example... ;)


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    last_one_left wrote: »
    why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party
    We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

    Just because an ideology is an ideology doesn't mean it deserves a political party.

    There is no "unashamedly conservative" political party because there is no market for one.

    Free market, innit.


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    #42
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Labour already occupy that landscape, so aside from retaining those TD's their seats. I'm unsure as to its chances for larger success.

    They pay lip service to it at any rate.


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    #43
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    hmmm wrote: »
    The economy is growing, confidence is returning, people see opportunities for themselves in the workplace. Leftwing politics (tax workers, distribute the money to the "vulnerable") doesn't play well in this sort of environment - people might feel vulnerable in a downturn, and are happy to attach themselves to left-wing politicians who advocate getting someone else to pay their mortgage, but in an upturn the last thing most people want is someone threatening to increase their taxes and hand it out to the rump who don't have a job.

    To expand upon your generalisation.
    It's sad to see we may be heading back to business as usual...roll on the next bust I suppose.


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    #44
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    last_one_left wrote: »
    why would we need yet another left wing party , we have not one single proper unashamedly conservative party
    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

    Just because an ideology is an ideology doesn't mean it deserves a political party.

    There is no "unashamedly conservative" political party because there is no market for one.

    Free market, innit.

    Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".


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    #45
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".

    Given Joe Higgins' Trotskyite background and the absence of any mentions of Trotskyism, Marxism or Communism from any of their campaigns, you might say the SP are ashamedly communist.


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    #46
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    I would never have placed Donnelly on the left wing spectrum. I know talking about left and right, especially in Ireland, is like walking in a swamp, but wouldn't his politics be economically free market and socially liberal? I would've thought his natural inclination would be towards a centre/centre right party.

    As for Higgins being a communist because of his previous affiliations, I'm not sure that's fair. Most of the Labour leadership were hardline communists in their day, but certainly aren't anymore.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd put Donnelly to the right in terms of economics, but to the left socially.

    It's why I like him. Fact based solutions that take people into account.


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    #48
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,487 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    We don't have a political party that is unashamedly communist either, but I doubt you think we need one.

    .

    http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Off the top of my head, for "unashamedly conservative" parties there's the Catholic "Democrats" and the Christian Solidarity Party. As for "unashamedly communist", there is an actual Communist Party of Ireland...and yes, as you'd expect, they don't get much support. I'm not sure if People Before Profit, the Socialist Workers Party or the Anti-Austerity Alliance count as "unashamedly communist".
    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/
    I had thought the Communist Party's registration on the official register had lapsed, apparently not.

    Anyway, there's nothing inherently wrong with being a communist, nor indeed is there anything inherently wrong about being an "unashamed conservative".

    There just isn't a significant market for either.


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    #50
    Xenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Averil Power might be a fit and she needs a vehicle in Dublin Bay North.

    Sounds good to me !

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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    #51
    SoupyNorman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...Fact based solutions that take people into account.

    And hold people to account, hopefully.


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    #52
    ChicagoJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭ChicagoJoe


    Sinn Fein are now the big boys whether the mods like Oscar Bravo etc like it or not :). Not a bad idea this group, it will help Sinn Fein to pull them into line directly or indirectly whether they like it or not :D


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    #53
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    I would never have placed Donnelly on the left wing spectrum. I know talking about left and right, especially in Ireland, is like walking in a swamp, but wouldn't his politics be economically free market and socially liberal? I would've thought his natural inclination would be towards a centre/centre right party.

    As for Higgins being a communist because of his previous affiliations, I'm not sure that's fair. Most of the Labour leadership were hardline communists in their day, but certainly aren't anymore.

    Absolutely. Donnelly came in on the coat tails of talk an alliance with Shane Ross.

    He fascinates me a lot in that right wing people think he's quite right wing and left wing people think he's quite left wing. He's definitely very smart and intelligent and has an incredible ability to get pr for himself.

    I'd half think about joining a party with Catherine Murphy involved but honestly not with one that has Shortall and Donnelly in it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #54
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I'd half think about joining a party with Catherine Murphy involved

    You can....

    www.workersparty.ie


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    #55
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    You can....

    www.workersparty.ie

    Wasn't aware she was still a member of the Workers Party.


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    #56
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not know how left the Labour Party is, but there will not be many of them left after the next election.


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    #57
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd put Donnelly to the right in terms of economics, but to the left socially.

    A populist then?

    I don't actually understand how one can be socially left and economically right wing. Anyone who is truly socially left wing would be unable to separate social and economic issues as the 2 are, IMO, inseparable.

    |I would put Donnelly down as possible socially liberal, not left wing. It's easy enough be socially liberal and economically conservative. The Republican Party in the US used to be this way, the Democrats currently are. In Ireland, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tried their best to walk this line for many many years. The PDs were exactly this.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #58
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Brian? wrote: »
    A populist then?

    No, he would need to be on the left socially and economically to be populist here, a la the PBP & SF. Donnelly's realism with respect to economic issues would not be to the liking of the masses here.


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    #59
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    Wasn't aware she was still a member of the Workers Party.

    She's definitely not. She left along with de Rossa et al to form Democratic Left and then for a short time Labour before being basically shoved out by Stagg

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #60
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    This will be Labour under a different name.


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    #61
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    Brian? wrote: »
    A populist then?

    I don't actually understand how one can be socially left and economically right wing. Anyone who is truly socially left wing would be unable to separate social and economic issues as the 2 are, IMO, inseparable.

    |I would put Donnelly down as possible socially liberal, not left wing. It's easy enough be socially liberal and economically conservative. The Republican Party in the US used to be this way, the Democrats currently are. In Ireland, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tried their best to walk this line for many many years. The PDs were exactly this.

    How do you define socially left? I would have thought most would assume socially left equals socially liberal.
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    She's definitely not. She left along with de Rossa et al to form Democratic Left and then for a short time Labour before being basically shoved out by Stagg

    I know, bad sarcasm post on my part.


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