12 Years a Slave; A Different Perspective

SafeSurfer

Depraved wrote: »

There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't engaged in some form of slavery at some time. And done much worse as well.

Switzerland?

RecordStraight

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Switzerland?

Celtic societies used slaves.

the evasion_kid

Sure were all slaves...wage slaves

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Not a bogs notion, have ye?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

The sacking of Baltimore is well documented and well known.

https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/irelands-wars-the-sack-of-baltimore/
http://www.obrien.ie/the-stolen-village

Nodin

MathDebater wrote: »

That link mostly backs up his claims. Did you even bother to scan it?

It doesn't.

I did.

Evidently you didn't.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

The sacking of Baltimore is well documented and well known.

https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/irelands-wars-the-sack-of-baltimore/
http://www.obrien.ie/the-stolen-village

Not the point I was making.

Wibbs

St Patrick was one of the first to condemn slavery and cursed those who practiced it. It started to drop off as a practice among the Irish after that This was not part of church thinking at the time. They chose to ignore it, even tacitly support it. Well Jesus doesn't make any reference to it. Odd given it was part and parcel of life at the time. EG a pope who's name escapes was wandering through a slave market in Rome when he spotted two beautiful kids. He asked where they were from and the seller told him they were Anglo's from Britain. The pope made a crap joke about how they looked like angels and decided to send an official mission to England to convert them(a bit late as we had been at it for two centuries already). This tells us that there were slave markets and slavery in Christian Rome and that the pope and church weren't against it.

In classical Rome slavery was a very different concept to the later one we're familiar with. In a lot of cases a slave had more social standing, even cash than say a freeborn farmer etc. The Roman elites doctors were nearly always slaves. Social mobility was extremely high too. The richest man in Herculaneum was the son of a slave. Many senators has similar backgrounds. Cicero noted this sniffily when he complained about how so many in the senate were of slave stock.

Hazys

Completely agree OP, Hollywood is always just pushing certain agendas.

I was watching Michael Collins the other night and i was sitting there wondering why they aren't focusing on the Russian Civil War or the Finish Civil War or the Chinese Civil War?

FFS they make it out that the Irish Civil War was the only civil war ongoing at that time :mad:

RecordStraight

Hazys wrote: »

Completely agree OP, Hollywood is always just pushing certain agendas.

I was watching Michael Collins the other night and i was sitting there wondering why they aren't focusing on the Russian Civil War or the Finish Civil War or the Chinese Civil War?

FFS they make it out that the Irish Civil War was the only civil war ongoing at that time :mad:

I saw a film about Malcolm X once. Malcolm X was alive at a time when the population of the world was nearly 4 BILLION people. How much screen time did the other 3,999,999,999 people get? Hardly any.

Disgusting.

nokia69

RecordStraight wrote: »

I saw a film about Malcolm X once. Malcolm X was alive at a time when the population of the world was nearly 4 BILLION people. How much screen time did the other 3,999,999,999 people get? Hardly any.

Disgusting.

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

in 1964 Malcom X traveled to saudi arabia, if he went a few years earlier he could have visited slave markets and bought a few slaves for himself

it was only because of the pressure JFK put on them that the saudis outlawed slavery in 1963 :eek:

Depraved

If we got rid of all slavery today, who would make our shoes, clothes and electronic goods?

Let's be careful here.

RecordStraight

Depraved wrote: »

If we got rid of all slavery today, who would make our shoes, clothes and electronic goods?

Let's be careful here.

The Chinese?

mikemac1

The Corkonians got raped, pillaged and sold into slavery? :eek:

No wonder they believe the whole world is against them. I suspect a jackeen invited over those pirates!

Magico Gonzalez

nokia69 wrote: »

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

in 1964 Malcom X traveled to saudi arabia, if he went a few years earlier he could have visited slave markets and bought a few slaves for himself

it was only because of the pressure JFK put on them that the saudis outlawed slavery in 1963 :eek:

Hmm...Nation of Islam is not the same as the Sunni or Shia muslim faiths. NoI believes Elijah was the prophet and not Muhammed, they have some pretty weird ideas about black surpremacy and white men being devils created on an Island somewhere. They are too Islam what the Mormons/Latter day saints are to christianity. Shouldn't lump them all in together.

So, no, not that interesting.

nokia69

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Hmm...Nation of Islam is not the same as the Sunni or Shia muslim faiths. NoI believes Elijah was the prophet and not Muhammed, they have some pretty weird ideas about black surpremacy and white men being devils created on an Island somewhere. They are too Islam what the Mormons/Latter day saints are to christianity. Shouldn't lump them all in together.

So, no, not that interesting.

I know all that

Malcom X left the nation of islam before he was killed

my point is he converted to a religion that has no problem with slavery

c_man

We're all economic slaves man. You've just learned to love the weight of your chains *draws deeply on splif*

MathDebater

mikemac1 wrote: »

The Corkonians got raped, pillaged and sold into slavery? :eek:

No wonder they believe the whole world is against them. I suspect a jackeen invited over those pirates!

It was a group of Waterford fisherman who sold them out. The captives weren't Irish. They were an English fishing group who rented the harbour from the local bigwig. The Brits eventually tracked them down fifteen years later and offered a ransom in exchange. Only two decided to come back with them!

catallus

I think we should also remember that Ghengis Khan captured Beijing on this date in 1215.

Reiver

William F wrote: »

On June 20th next, spare a thought for those who lost their lives at Baltimore, West Cork.

Colonial planters. Why should I give a shít?

Nodin

nokia69 wrote: »

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

And after his visit to mecca he abandoned the nation of Islam and renounced anti-white racism. Don't let the facts bother ye though.

Nodin

mikemac1 wrote: »

The Corkonians got raped, pillaged and sold into slavery? :eek:

No wonder they believe the whole world is against them. I suspect a jackeen invited over those pirates!

I suspect it was somebody from whatever country Cork were up against in the 1631 all-Ireland final, trying to put them off.

William F

Reiver wrote: »

Colonial planters. Why should I give a shít?

Chances are they'd have married into the population.

SeanW

William F wrote: »

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence. Sometimes grave injustice can appear to be so but with closer examination can appear to be just.

You had me until you came up with this.

I sometimes take the view that two wrongs can make a right, an eye for an eye and all that, but slavery - especially when the enslaved were innocent of previous events - is probably the best example of where the old adage "two wrongs don't make a right" apply.

Nodin

William F wrote: »

Today’s general consensus would have you believe that the slave trade was a struggle between black Africans and white Europeans. While this is true for a certain period of time in our most recent history, earlier historical evidence suggests that it was the Africans who were the perpetrators of the slave trade and it were white Europeans, and in this instance the Irish, its sole victims.

I have always believed that there was more to the story and have blatantly refused to succumb to the general guilt complex that shrouds White-Black relations in the 20th and 21st Centuries. It was here I discovered that on June 20th, 1631 a band of African pirates/terrorists invaded the West Cork village of Baltimore and took with them over a hundred men, women and children to be sold into the slave and sex trades.

Although this is only one instance of many, it demonstrates the general scope and wide spread terrorism the African slave trade had on white Europeans. What is even more frightening about the African slave trade is that this event happened on our very shores, on the outskirts of Europe and far removed from any ‘African’ continent.

It is estimated that the African slave trade claimed the lives of over 1 million white Europeans and its scope reached as far as Iceland, a country whose people are historically related to the Irish.

The movie ‘12 years a slave’ would have you believe that White Europeans and Americans have a case to answer for while at the same time ignoring the victims of Black on White slavery, particularly those of Baltimore, West Cork. There is no denying that the slave trade existed but to hold white people accountable is to deny Africa’s responsibility in the rape and pillaging of Europe and some parts of Ireland.

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence. Sometimes grave injustice can appear to be so but with closer examination can appear to be just.

On June 20th next, spare a thought for those who lost their lives at Baltimore, West Cork.

The Barbary coast pirates consisted of Turks, Arabs, a few Europeans, etc based in North Africa over many years. While doubtless there were black Africans involved, to cast it as a "black" vs "white" struggle is utterly and totally wrong. In fact, its hard to tell where you got the notion from.

PopePalpatine

osarusan wrote: »

Quite possibly the most stupid and disgusting thing I've ever seen in AH.

Next week, William explains how the Holocaust was karma for the Jews, eastern Europeans and the rest of the Nazis' victims.

joe swanson

catallus wrote: »

I think we should also remember that Ghengis Khan captured Beijing on this date in 1215.

And what about one July 19th when Galway was invaded by Indians?

Reiver

William F wrote: »

Chances are they'd have married into the population.

Chances are they'd have been massacred 10 years later when the populace rose up in revolt. 1641 was a bloody year.

William F

Reiver wrote: »

Chances are they'd have been massacred 10 years later when the populace rose up in revolt. 1641 was a bloody year.

That depends.

You make your post sound as though your a Gael of pure blood.

Reiver

William F wrote: »

That depends.

You make your post sound as though your a Gael of pure blood.

Oh no, there's definitely quite a bit of Norman in there. And English. And viking. Hugenoet, Scot, Welsh, the entire island is a melting pot. You make your post sound like you're trying to be some sort of stormfront wannabe.

I just fail to see how you're trying to justify slavery by mentioning the slavery of slavers. Regrettably it's been about people doing it to people since time immemorial. It's not about skin colour. And definitely not "white vs black"

darkpagandeath

Sorry to break it to you, There are no "Pure Gael" Unless you think like that lad in Eastern Europe.... On a Side not Did Ireland no Make a Saint out of a slave from Wales ?