12 Years a Slave; A Different Perspective

William F

Today’s general consensus would have you believe that the slave trade was a struggle between black Africans and white Europeans. While this is true for a certain period of time in our most recent history, earlier historical evidence suggests that it was the Africans who were the perpetrators of the slave trade and it were white Europeans, and in this instance the Irish, its sole victims.

I have always believed that there was more to the story and have blatantly refused to succumb to the general guilt complex that shrouds White-Black relations in the 20th and 21st Centuries. It was here I discovered that on June 20th, 1631 a band of African pirates/terrorists invaded the West Cork village of Baltimore and took with them over a hundred men, women and children to be sold into the slave and sex trades.

Although this is only one instance of many, it demonstrates the general scope and wide spread terrorism the African slave trade had on white Europeans. What is even more frightening about the African slave trade is that this event happened on our very shores, on the outskirts of Europe and far removed from any ‘African’ continent.

It is estimated that the African slave trade claimed the lives of over 1 million white Europeans and its scope reached as far as Iceland, a country whose people are historically related to the Irish.

The movie ‘12 years a slave’ would have you believe that White Europeans and Americans have a case to answer for while at the same time ignoring the victims of Black on White slavery, particularly those of Baltimore, West Cork. There is no denying that the slave trade existed but to hold white people accountable is to deny Africa’s responsibility in the rape and pillaging of Europe and some parts of Ireland.

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence. Sometimes grave injustice can appear to be so but with closer examination can appear to be just.

On June 20th next, spare a thought for those who lost their lives at Baltimore, West Cork.

fizzypish

Ya but we were better at slaving......

mickstupp

There's a certain type of person who can't seem to view a problem without saying, "Yeah but look at this over here! Why aren't you looking at this over here!", when that thing over there is not what the problem is addressing.

The movie ‘12 years a slave’ would have you believe that White Europeans and Americans have a case to answer for while at the same time ignoring the victims of Black on White slavery, particularly those of Baltimore, West Cork.

You know what else 12 Years A Slave ignored? Slavery in Greece, Rome, Persia, China etc. etc. etc. What else did it ignore... Candy Floss. Arachnophobia. Stalin. Atomic Physics. How dare that movie concentrate on the one thing that it's actually about!

I guess next time they make a movie about Spartacus they should explicitly address the events of June 20th, 1631. That'd make sense.

BoJack Horseman

What has a biography about Solomon Northrup in New York got to do with Barbary pirates from Tunisia?

Ans: Boards anti-logic.

Flippyfloppy

This shouldn't come as a shock to most people. North African slavery trade was well known and even depictedin the movie Gladiator. The area in this movie, Mauretania, was a real place, which is now Algeria.

What is really shocking about white on black slavery was that it took place in supposed civilized times, less than a century ago. And on a large scale.


Also, 12 years a slave was set in the 1840s in Louisiana. Logically, why would the filmmakers find it relevant to include events of 1631, Baltimore Ireland as a side plot?

Depraved

There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't engaged in some form of slavery at some time. And done much worse as well.

William F

Well since there were black slaves and white slaves at the around the same period in time, (lets not forget those sent to Australia) the slave trade was more of a class struggle than a race one, as it is often portrayed.

tigger123

What's the source that the raid in West Baltimore was one of many?

Also, the book and movie are a biography which tell a true story. By your logic, In The Name of The Father should be dismissed because it ignored The Battle of The Boyne.

Also, karma doesn't exist.

RecordStraight

William F wrote: »

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence.

Lol.

In next week's episode, based on one article he read, William will explain how HIV is karma for gays having sex with monkeys.

Flippyfloppy

William F wrote: »

Well since there were black slaves and white slaves at the around the same period in time, (lets not forget those sent to Australia) the slave trade was more of a class struggle than a race one, as it is often portrayed.

Maybe you should change your OP to reflect that you've changed your mind?

NotCominBack

RecordStraight wrote: »

Lol.

In next week's episode, based on one article he read, William will explain how HIV is karma for gays having sex with monkeys.

Gays are having sex with monkeys? I didnt vote yes for this

suicide_circus

White guilt, white shame...SHAME ON ALL YOU HONKIES

MathDebater

There are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. There are more people enslaved today, than any other time in human history. But nobody really gives a fcuk. It ain't whitey doing the enslaving so no political capital can be made out of it.

silverfeather

MathDebater wrote: »

There are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. There are more people enslaved today, than any other time in human history. But nobody really gives a fcuk. It ain't whitey doing the enslaving so no political capital can be made out of it.

Sometimes we buy what they make though.

FluffyAngel

PSSSST...we are all slaves of our own minds...


















And some are imprisoned by their own minds














whilst Others are on death row..

Right Turn Clyde

William F wrote: »

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence. Sometimes grave injustice can appear to be so but with closer examination can appear to be just.

That's a disgusting opinion.

William F

tigger123 wrote: »

What's the source that the raid in West Baltimore was one of many?
.

Did you ever meet those dark skinned people from the west of ireland who tell you they are descendants of the Spanish armada?

Well, there's more to that story than meets the eye.

anncoates

Historical films should ideally be 24 hours long to sufficiently tie in all whataboutery themes.

You could watch them in the cinema in 8 hour installments with a exam afterwards to qualify for the next installment.

MathDebater

There was a video posted on liveleak recently where an Ethopian slave was stripped, hung by her feet from the ceiling and beaten with a belt by her arab masters. Horrendous stuff altogether. Tip of the iceberg stuff to what goes on in these countries.

It's much easier to convince ourselves that slavery was a product of times gone by.

Nodin

William F wrote: »

Today’s general consensus (.............)lives at Baltimore, West Cork.

Not a bogs notion, have ye?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

MathDebater

That link mostly backs up his claims. Did you even bother to scan it?

. In addition to seizing ships, they engaged in Razzias, raids on European coastal towns and villages, mainly in Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal, but also in the British Isles, the Netherlands and as far away as Iceland. The main purpose of their attacks was to capture Christian slaves for the Ottoman slave trade as well as the general Muslim market in North Africa and the Middle East.[2]

fryup

here's an intellectual's perspective.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anc51ErPBxg

Adamocovic

OP is making a fair point about how a lot of people just think of the American history when they hear the word "slavery" and not so much about how widespread it was and still is, covering all nationalities, races, and religions.

Honestly I think the downfall of this post was bringing the film into it. People will look at it like you are complaining about the film for not covering the entire history of slavery (that would take some time) even if that was not your intention.

RecordStraight

MathDebater wrote: »

That link mostly backs up his claims. Did you even bother to scan it?

I thought that story was widely known. The claim people have a problem with is that Europeans enslaving Africans was an act of justice.

Ghost Train

Wasn't Montserrat where some Irish slaves ended up

kingchess

Dublin had a very large slave trade going on when the Vikings were in charge,every culture has a history of slavery,its was not just White slavers and Black slaves.And the sad thing is that Slavery is still around.

osarusan

William F wrote: »

Perhaps one can draw the conclusion that the Atlantic Slave Trade, the one familiar in everyone’s mind, was not developed out of profit and lust for power, but was in fact a result of Karma and providence. Sometimes grave injustice can appear to be so but with closer examination can appear to be just.

Quite possibly the most stupid and disgusting thing I've ever seen in AH.

tigger123

William F wrote: »

Did you ever meet those dark skinned people from the west of ireland who tell you they are descendants of the Spanish armada?

Well, there's more to that story than meets the eye.

You didn't really answer the question; what's your source for the claim that there were many raids into Europe (or is it just Ireland?) by African slavers?

Capt'n Midnight

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

This shouldn't come as a shock to most people. North African slavery trade was well known and even depictedin the movie Gladiator. The area in this movie, Mauretania, was a real place, which is now Algeria.

Mauritania is a country on the west coast of the Sahara.

Slavery was only made a criminal offence there in 2007. AFAIK there has only been one successful prosecution in a country where 10%-20% of the population are still slaves. So next to no enforcement of anti-slavery laws.

Anti Slavery protesters are still getting jailed.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2015-002749&language=EN

Since the arrest of Mr Biram Dah Abeid and other activists for participating in a caravan denouncing the situation of land rights holders in the south, the EU Delegation to Mauritania, has been in regular contact with their organisation and has been following the judicial process, now on the appeal phase. Three of the activists imprisoned in Nouakchott were given a suspended sentence and have been released.

...
The fight against slavery and its remnants is an EU priority in Mauritania. The EU works closely with the authorities, civil society, the OHCHR and the UN Special Rapporteur for contemporary forms of slavery for the implementation of legislation, in particular of the UN-sponsored road map agreed last year with the Government.

Flippyfloppy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Mauritania is a country on the west coast of the Sahara.

Slavery was only made a criminal offence there in 2007. AFAIK there has only been one successful prosecution in a country where 10%-20% of the population are still slaves. So next to no enforcement of anti-slavery laws.

Anti Slavery protesters are still getting jailed.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2015-002749&language=EN

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauretania_Caesariensis

Mauretania was a completely different place.

MathDebater

tigger123 wrote: »

You didn't really answer the question; what's your source for the claim that there were many raids into Europe (or is it just Ireland?) by African slavers?

Post 20 in this very thread.

SafeSurfer

Depraved wrote: »

There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't engaged in some form of slavery at some time. And done much worse as well.

Switzerland?

RecordStraight

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Switzerland?

Celtic societies used slaves.

the evasion_kid

Sure were all slaves...wage slaves

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Not a bogs notion, have ye?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates

The sacking of Baltimore is well documented and well known.

https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/irelands-wars-the-sack-of-baltimore/
http://www.obrien.ie/the-stolen-village

Nodin

MathDebater wrote: »

That link mostly backs up his claims. Did you even bother to scan it?

It doesn't.

I did.

Evidently you didn't.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

The sacking of Baltimore is well documented and well known.

https://neverfeltbetter.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/irelands-wars-the-sack-of-baltimore/
http://www.obrien.ie/the-stolen-village

Not the point I was making.

Wibbs

St Patrick was one of the first to condemn slavery and cursed those who practiced it. It started to drop off as a practice among the Irish after that This was not part of church thinking at the time. They chose to ignore it, even tacitly support it. Well Jesus doesn't make any reference to it. Odd given it was part and parcel of life at the time. EG a pope who's name escapes was wandering through a slave market in Rome when he spotted two beautiful kids. He asked where they were from and the seller told him they were Anglo's from Britain. The pope made a crap joke about how they looked like angels and decided to send an official mission to England to convert them(a bit late as we had been at it for two centuries already). This tells us that there were slave markets and slavery in Christian Rome and that the pope and church weren't against it.

In classical Rome slavery was a very different concept to the later one we're familiar with. In a lot of cases a slave had more social standing, even cash than say a freeborn farmer etc. The Roman elites doctors were nearly always slaves. Social mobility was extremely high too. The richest man in Herculaneum was the son of a slave. Many senators has similar backgrounds. Cicero noted this sniffily when he complained about how so many in the senate were of slave stock.

Hazys

Completely agree OP, Hollywood is always just pushing certain agendas.

I was watching Michael Collins the other night and i was sitting there wondering why they aren't focusing on the Russian Civil War or the Finish Civil War or the Chinese Civil War?

FFS they make it out that the Irish Civil War was the only civil war ongoing at that time :mad:

RecordStraight

Hazys wrote: »

Completely agree OP, Hollywood is always just pushing certain agendas.

I was watching Michael Collins the other night and i was sitting there wondering why they aren't focusing on the Russian Civil War or the Finish Civil War or the Chinese Civil War?

FFS they make it out that the Irish Civil War was the only civil war ongoing at that time :mad:

I saw a film about Malcolm X once. Malcolm X was alive at a time when the population of the world was nearly 4 BILLION people. How much screen time did the other 3,999,999,999 people get? Hardly any.

Disgusting.

nokia69

RecordStraight wrote: »

I saw a film about Malcolm X once. Malcolm X was alive at a time when the population of the world was nearly 4 BILLION people. How much screen time did the other 3,999,999,999 people get? Hardly any.

Disgusting.

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

in 1964 Malcom X traveled to saudi arabia, if he went a few years earlier he could have visited slave markets and bought a few slaves for himself

it was only because of the pressure JFK put on them that the saudis outlawed slavery in 1963 :eek:

Depraved

If we got rid of all slavery today, who would make our shoes, clothes and electronic goods?

Let's be careful here.

RecordStraight

Depraved wrote: »

If we got rid of all slavery today, who would make our shoes, clothes and electronic goods?

Let's be careful here.

The Chinese?

mikemac1

The Corkonians got raped, pillaged and sold into slavery? :eek:

No wonder they believe the whole world is against them. I suspect a jackeen invited over those pirates!

Magico Gonzalez

nokia69 wrote: »

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

in 1964 Malcom X traveled to saudi arabia, if he went a few years earlier he could have visited slave markets and bought a few slaves for himself

it was only because of the pressure JFK put on them that the saudis outlawed slavery in 1963 :eek:

Hmm...Nation of Islam is not the same as the Sunni or Shia muslim faiths. NoI believes Elijah was the prophet and not Muhammed, they have some pretty weird ideas about black surpremacy and white men being devils created on an Island somewhere. They are too Islam what the Mormons/Latter day saints are to christianity. Shouldn't lump them all in together.

So, no, not that interesting.

nokia69

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Hmm...Nation of Islam is not the same as the Sunni or Shia muslim faiths. NoI believes Elijah was the prophet and not Muhammed, they have some pretty weird ideas about black surpremacy and white men being devils created on an Island somewhere. They are too Islam what the Mormons/Latter day saints are to christianity. Shouldn't lump them all in together.

So, no, not that interesting.

I know all that

Malcom X left the nation of islam before he was killed

my point is he converted to a religion that has no problem with slavery

c_man

We're all economic slaves man. You've just learned to love the weight of your chains *draws deeply on splif*

MathDebater

mikemac1 wrote: »

The Corkonians got raped, pillaged and sold into slavery? :eek:

No wonder they believe the whole world is against them. I suspect a jackeen invited over those pirates!

It was a group of Waterford fisherman who sold them out. The captives weren't Irish. They were an English fishing group who rented the harbour from the local bigwig. The Brits eventually tracked them down fifteen years later and offered a ransom in exchange. Only two decided to come back with them!

catallus

I think we should also remember that Ghengis Khan captured Beijing on this date in 1215.

Reiver

William F wrote: »

On June 20th next, spare a thought for those who lost their lives at Baltimore, West Cork.

Colonial planters. Why should I give a shít?

Nodin

nokia69 wrote: »

Malcom X is interesting, he hated white people because of slavery, then converted to a religion that continues even today to buy and sell people into slavery

And after his visit to mecca he abandoned the nation of Islam and renounced anti-white racism. Don't let the facts bother ye though.