S05E08 - Hardhome - Have READ The Books

Daith

Mr Freeze wrote: »

They definitely lost one, and then had none. Until they melted down Ice.

Anyways. here is a list of all the Valyrian Steel Swords.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valyrian_steel

Oh apparently Brynden was the last person to have Dark Sister. Wonder if Meera or Bran controlling Hodor gets to use it.

Zillah

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I'm thinking they would have lost their special properties, but I doubt that will stop them killing Others in the show. They will just ignore that part.

Sure Brienne is super powered in the show almost. Beating the hound, etc.
She will kill Ramsay and his 20 good men in one blow from her sword and march off to the deal with the others then single handedly.

She just about beat the Hound and it was no sure thing at all. Are you sure you just don't have an issue with a woman doing these things?

As for the reforging: I imagine Tywin and his swordsmith knew the answer to this question when they chose to reforge it. I some how doubt they'd have knowingly destroyed a priceless relic to create a pair of ordinary swords.

Don't we see Brienne chop someone else's sword in half?

Falthyron

Zillah wrote: »

Don't we see Brienne chop someone else's sword in half?

Yup. In the episode when Brienne meets Petyr Baelish and Sansa in the pub, she is later pursued by Baelish's men. While saving Podrick she cuts one of her pursuer's sword in half.

Trent Houseboat

Zillah wrote: »

She just about beat the Hound and it was no sure thing at all. Are you sure you just don't have an issue with a woman doing these things?

As for the reforging: I imagine Tywin and his swordsmith knew the answer to this question when they chose to reforge it. I some how doubt they'd have knowingly destroyed a priceless relic to create a pair of ordinary swords.

Don't we see Brienne chop someone else's sword in half?

I think she broke one of the swords of one of the knights in Littlefinger's service. That was before cleaving a hitching post in two with one blow.

Edit: Falthyron got there before me

PopePalpatine

Didn't Tywin hire someone from Essos to forge Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper?

Mr Freeze

Zillah wrote: »

She just about beat the Hound and it was no sure thing at all. Are you sure you just don't have an issue with a woman doing these things?

Haha no, I think the show writers seem to be giving the characters they like more to do or making them better or more skilled than their book versions, Like Brienne and Ramsay.

Ramsay won no victories in the books if I recall correctly, only by deceit. Yet in the show, practiacally naked he routed some ironborn.

I'm a fan of Brienne in the books, but not so much this show version, plus I fear she will kill Stannis in the show.

Zillah wrote: »

As for the reforging: I imagine Tywin and his swordsmith knew the answer to this question when they chose to reforge it. I some how doubt they'd have knowingly destroyed a priceless relic to create a pair of ordinary swords.

Regarding the swords, melted down and reforged, they are still better than ordinary steel swords. But it is mentioned in the books that when the ancient valyrian swords were originally forged it was with magic and dragon fire. So any magical qualities they got from that, might be lost when reforged by a modern day smith.

That's the question I was asking. Brienne's sword might chop normal swords in half no problem, but will it kill an Other. It probably will, as you can ignore that magical forging stuff for the show.

Trent Houseboat

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Haha no, I think the show writers seem to be giving the characters they like more to do or making them better or more skilled than their book versions, Like Brienne and Ramsay.

Ramsay won no victories in the books if I recall correctly, only by deceit. Yet in the show, practiacally naked he routed some ironborn.

I'm a fan of Brienne in the books, but not so much this show version, plus I fear she will kill Stannis in the show.

He beat Rodrick Cassell and the Stark men outside Winterfell.

Mr Freeze

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

He beat Rodrick Cassell and the Stark men outside Winterfell.

Ya, he rode up as an ally and caught them unaware didn't he?

He doesn't do the whole Meet in Battle thing, anything he wins is with dirty tactics.

He wouldn't dare face someone in single combat or anything.

Would love to see Brienne kick his ass in single combat, at least that way she might not kill Stannis. :pac:

Kenny B

Never been a huge fan, watched most of them up til now, last night was good.

I reckon Sam is already dead -poisoned by Jon's lad, the mutiny agin Jon afoot. That said making predictions is the fastest route to looking a fool.

Trent Houseboat

Kenny B wrote: »

Never been a huge fan, watched most of them up til now, last night was good.

I reckon Sam is already dead -poisoned by Jon's lad, the mutiny agin Jon afoot. That said making predictions is the fastest route to looking a fool.

Do you think he caught a dose off Ygritte?

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Would love to see Brienne kick his ass in single combat, at least that way she might not kill Stannis. :pac:

I dont think itd be much of a fight.

Naked Ramsay and the Ironborn was more a case that they were running from the dogs I thought? Its not like he managed to kill Yara - although it was totally ridiculous that he was prancing around with 2 knives facing people in armour with swords - and even more silly that people in armour and swords would run from dogs. Although perhaps it was just the noise - once it got noisy they knew they were attracting attention and it was time to get out of dodge.

Daith

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, he rode up as an ally and caught them unaware didn't he?

He doesn't do the whole Meet in Battle thing, anything he wins is with dirty tactics.

He wouldn't dare face someone in single combat or anything.

Well given his 20 men comment I'd say dirty tactics are the way he is going again.

Trent Houseboat

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, he rode up as an ally and caught them unaware didn't he?

He doesn't do the whole Meet in Battle thing, anything he wins is with dirty tactics.

He wouldn't dare face someone in single combat or anything.

Would love to see Brienne kick his ass in single combat, at least that way she might not kill Stannis. :pac:

As far as I remember, he was flying Bolton colours which it was assumed were allies.
Though to be honest that whole Reek/Ramsay/Reek II stuff was very confusing for me. Much happier with how the show did it.

Washington Irving

Can Brienne being faced with a choice whether to go after Stannis and avenge Renly or keep her oath to Catelyn and save Sansa.

Son0vagun

I'm thinking Sansa will use Briene to find Rickon and Bran. With ultimately Rickon picking up her sword when she falls.

chanelfreak

I'll be p1ssed off if Brienne rides in again and saves the day and/or murders Stannis - like someone said earlier, the show is making her out to be superwoman and it almost takes away from the fact that in the books, she is badass enough on her own without having these bleedin super powers.

Plus, I firmly believe that the Hound is safe and sound in the Quiet Isle getting ready for Cleganebowl (a girl can dream, right?)

When we saw Sansa last season after dying her hair and becoming willing to be a proper player in the show, I was delighted. About bloody time I thought. So if the show doesn't give her the opportunity to slit that little b*stard Ramsay's throat, I won't be happy.

All that aside, I really enjoyed the episode last night and I'm definitely watching it again once I get home from work. The image of the Night's King raising the fallen was just unreal

Daith

chanelfreak wrote: »

When we saw Sansa last season after dying her hair and becoming willing to be a proper player in the show, I was delighted. About bloody time I thought. So if the show doesn't give her the opportunity to slit that little b*stard Ramsay's throat, I won't be happy.

I'm assuming Sansa won't do anything physical but manipulate someone else.

Zillah

I don't think they've over-done Brienne. She's a very good fighter...that's about it. Maybe she is one of the world's finests but no one acknowledges it because she's a woman. Didn't she win a tournament of some sort to impress Renly?

Eitherway, delighted that the show had her change course from what I called "The Endless Wanderings of Brienne of Tarth" in the book. Half a book spent reading about Brienne meandering around the wilderness on what we know is a fool's errand all along.

MrWalsh

Zillah wrote: »

I don't think they've over-done Brienne. She's a very good fighter...that's about it. Maybe she is one of the world's finests but no one acknowledges it because she's a woman.

I agree.

On the TV show:
She beat Ser Loras in single combat to gain a position on Renlys Kingsguard.

She beat Jaime Lannister - although he was weakened and had his hands shackled - but she still beat him shockingly easily.

She kicked the Hounds ass both with a sword and in a brawl - although he was also weakened, but in the show he was not portrayed as nearly as weakened as he was in the book.

Aside from the above she has easily dispatched anyone she has come across (Northerners who were asking who Jaime Lannister is), Littlefingers men.

I dont think she is quite so stellar in the book but I always thought she was a good fighter.

Sleepy

The book portrayed her as having a gift as a swords-woman that's not readily translated to the small screen in a show as short on time as this: stamina. Brienne couldn't beat the men for strength but she could hold them off until they tired themselves out and her superior stamina would then win her the fight. Were the show to follow this, they'd have to show each fight lasting at least five minutes of slash and parry... not great TV tbh.

Baggly

Sleepy wrote: »

The book portrayed her as having a gift as a swords-woman that's not readily translated to the small screen in a show as short on time as this: stamina. Brienne couldn't beat the men for strength but she could hold them off until they tired themselves out and her superior stamina would then win her the fight. Were the show to follow this, they'd have to show each fight lasting at least five minutes of slash and parry... not great TV tbh.

Philistine.

MrWalsh

Sleepy wrote: »

The book portrayed her as having a gift as a swords-woman that's not readily translated to the small screen in a show as short on time as this: stamina. Brienne couldn't beat the men for strength but she could hold them off until they tired themselves out and her superior stamina would then win her the fight. Were the show to follow this, they'd have to show each fight lasting at least five minutes of slash and parry... not great TV tbh.

Considering her physical size Id say she is just as strong as anyone she has faced on screen so far (except the Hound maybe). I definitely think she would kick seven shades of sh1te out of Ramsay Bolton.

Not that strength matters - Oberyn had the Mountain beat until he decided to do a bit of grandstanding.

Sleepy

Pter wrote: »

Philistine.

I'm not saying I wouldn't watch it, but you'd need 24 episodes per season if you followed the books that closely. Unfortunately, not even HBO have the money to do that well...

MrWalsh wrote: »

Considering her physical size Id say she is just as strong as anyone she has faced on screen so far (except the Hound maybe). I definitely think she would kick seven shades of sh1te out of Ramsay Bolton.

Not that strength matters - Oberyn had the Mountain beat until he decided to do a bit of grandstanding.

Agree on all counts, the show have had to do it differently than the books in the show strength seems to be just as much a factor in her talents as endurance.

juneg

Are we not presuming a lot in saying that when Jon Snow is stabbed ( and the internet goes into meltdown )
that Melisandre will bring him back to life?

I mean she's never shown that she has that capability, seems to prefer burning people and shadow killing to bringing life.
Shes very different to the red priest who kept bringing that knight back. ( Thoros of Myr?? )

Lady Stoneheart in the books also comes back as a version of herself

Jon in the tv series has never shown much awareness of having the ability to be a warg either.
I had thought after he was stabbed he would warg into his direwolf.
Any thoughts on that?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

When he is stabbed she's going to want to be on hand fairly lively as I'd imagine they'll burn the body almost immediately. Don't want no undead John Snow coming at you, no sir. I don't really know how they'd play that out unless red woman legs it back to the wall in the next episode.

FunLover18

MrWalsh wrote:

Not that strength matters - Oberyn had the Mountain beat until he decided to do a bit of grandstanding.

It's still too soon *sniff*

EagererBeaver

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You wait seasons for more White Walkers then 2 hundred thousand come at once !!!! Now THATS how to hammer (Hard)home the threat the White Walkers pose.

Absolutely amazing episode, the sort of big budget blowout normally reserved for episode 9, which along with Ramsey's boast that all he needs are 20 good men leads me to believe that Stannis's army will be defeated off screen (or at the very least shrouded in a snowstorm) ala whispering wood. To be honest I'm ok with that, the budget sadly can only stretch so far and it was far more important to showcase the long absent White walkers imo.

Was that small satchel all the dragon glass they have because if it is they are absolutely ****ed. The lords of the big houses may all have valaryian swords but that's not nearly enough to make a difference.

Dany has three big ****ing dragons though!

Mormegil

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

When he is stabbed she's going to want to be on hand fairly lively as I'd imagine they'll burn the body almost immediately. Don't want no undead John Snow coming at you, no sir. I don't really know how they'd play that out unless red woman legs it back to the wall in the next episode.

One theory doing the rounds is that both Stannis and Jon die.


Mel knowing it can be done (from Thoras) tries to bring back Stannis.

However during her incantation she calls him the Lord of Lights Chosen One or AA or the PtwP (if they want to bring those terms onto the show).

Nothing happens and Stannis stays dead.


We then cut to The Wall where Jon is about to be cremated, his eyes open and he sits up (end of season).

ThunbergsAreGo

It would be hilarious if they just killed Jon, no reincarnation etc

Zillah

naughtb4 wrote: »

It would be hilarious if they just killed Jon, no reincarnation etc

I think so many people would just melt down and it would be the last straw.