I don't agree with the schooling system?

liquoriceall

There is also the minor issue of people going on to 3rd level education doing mickey mouse courses which have no educational merit for free! Im certain if their parents or they themselves had to pay they wouldnt be doing half these courses!

Sligo1

liquoriceall wrote: »

There is also the minor issue of people going on to 3rd level education doing mickey mouse courses which have no educational merit for free! Im certain if their parents or they themselves had to pay they wouldnt be doing half these courses!

I completely agree with this. And you also have many many (not all obviously) people going to these third level institutions and pissing the year away in the pub because the courses haven't cost them or their parents the thousands upon thousands of euro to attend....

Sleepy

One thing I think that seems to be missed in the move towards child-centric learning etc. is self discipline. When we have so many parents looking to treat their children as special little snowflakes, I worry that they'll end up completely unable to work in the real world where negative things happen, where you have to do what you're instructed to etc.

SF12

I would wholeheartedly agree. I read an article recently about a study in narcissim in children (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/03/09/how-parents-create-narcissistic-children/) - by telling them how great they are all time, they believe they're better than everyone else at everything. And then they can't cope when they get older and discover the world doesn't work like that.

I also think a little rote learning goes hand in hand with self-discipline. You need self-discipline to sit down and learn things off. And if you want any hope of remembering basic things like maths tables, spellings etc, you have to spend at least some time learning stuff off. We can make it as airy-fairy as we like with whiteboards and dances and games and TV screens and apps, but at the end of the day there just has to be a period of time spent rote-learning the basics. It's just how the human brain remembers things.

I think there are actually a lot of good things about the education system in this country. I think a lot of parents are hung up on the whole thing of "what school was like in my time". It's not like that any more at all. You don't go to school age 4 to sit in rows and be chastised by members of the religious orders. It's changed a bit, y'know. Also it's all very well to say that you don't want your 5 year old sitting at a desk being quiet and learning (which, by the way, they are generally not - when was anyone here last in a JI classroom during the day?!) , but when they get to 8, 10, 12, 15 years old (which is a short enough time period) - what do you expect of how they should behave in school then? And how do you think they will learn that behaviour? The whole point of education is that is a long game. Delayed gratification...you put the effort in over the years, and should see rewards at the end of it. (Although in my own case and many others, events outside our control such as the recession, have put an end to that plan...:()

I fully appreciate there are those that have learning problems that make the existing system difficult or unsuitable. Yet for all of that, the parents of these kids still want them in mainstream education, for many reasons. I think the OP made the point also about more kids being on medication, with behavioural diagnoses....sometimes parents push the diagnoses, not wanting to believe that their kid IS just badly behaved (generally as a result of poor parenting, or maybe the parental situation) or maybe just a bit slower than they were. Also there is simply more recognition and understanding of various disorders such as Autism and Aspergers, and believe it or not, the education system does put a lot of resources and training and time into learning about these kids and accommodating them.

The point I'm trying to make in my ramblings is that writing off the entire education system because your memories of it are bad is a bit misjudged. Obviously schooling your child is entirely your decision, but I feel that the system gets a lot of bad press, when it's not all bad. And yes, there are problems, but we should be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" when trying to fix them.

LegacyUser

Just in relation to the Educate Together schools - I chose one of these schools for my child for some of the reasons mentioned already namely I like the ethos of the school and the fact that religious education cover numerous different types of religion should my child ever wish to choose one.

I would however like to point out that the fee of 80 referred to earlier may only relate to that specific school. The fees in my child's school were 150 which included a small book rental charge, for some books but not all. I still had to buy books and supplies which cost roughly 100. Then they also look for a "voluntary contribution" with a suggested amount of 100 or 150 (I can't remember exactly), however I have not been in a position to pay this in the years my child has attended this school and have in fact paid the regular fees in instalments. On top of that then was a charge of 78 to pay for swimming. Extras then include school trips and raffle tickets and such.

I have no problem with the school at all, nor with paying the fees (though the swimming is expensive considering they go once a week for six weeks), but I just wanted to give a realistic picture of the actual costs involved.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

OP I've been thinking about homeschooling too although my eldest is only 15 months at the moment so I'm really jumping the gun. I had a thread about it recently and got some good replies and things to think about. What I am thinking of doing is trying homeschooling when my son gets to 4 and if it doesn't work out, I can send him to school at 5. Steiner schools do sound great in theory but like lazygal said, if you have a closer look some of their philosophies are quite 'out there'. If we do go the route of traditional schooling it will be an educate together school that we choose.

iguana

Emmet Drab Gum wrote: »

OP I've been thinking about homeschooling too although my eldest is only 15 months at the moment so I'm really jumping the gun. I had a thread about it recently and got some good replies and things to think about. What I am thinking of doing is trying homeschooling when my son gets to 4 and if it doesn't work out, I can send him to school at 5. Steiner schools do sound great in theory but like lazygal said, if you have a closer look some of their philosophies are quite 'out there'. If we do go the route of traditional schooling it will be an educate together school that we choose.

Have you already applied for the ET schools? I applied for my 'local' ET when he was 4 months old and he is low enough on the list that he may get a place but if even less than 10 siblings of current pupils have applied to be in his class, he won't get a place. If you haven't already it would be worth checking the enrolment policy in the school/s near you.

I also feel much more comfortable with the idea of home education for my son but I want to be able to give him the option.

Permabear

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fro9etb8j5qsl2

iguana wrote: »

Have you already applied for the ET schools? I applied for my 'local' ET when he was 4 months old and he is low enough on the list that he may get a place but if even less than 10 siblings of current pupils have applied to be in his class, he won't get a place. If you haven't already it would be worth checking the enrolment policy in the school/s near you.

I also feel much more comfortable with the idea of home education for my son but I want to be able to give him the option.

Yup I applied for both of mine last month. Like you said though the school is very oversubscribed. I also make a monthly donation to Educate Together, I wouldn't in a million years believe that it would have any influence (unlike the mammy who told me about the donation facility in the first place) but I make the donation anyway because I believe that ET schools are a brilliant innovation and hopefully, if more people donate, more schools will open and the places won't be so precious

cactusgal

Permabear wrote: »

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Hmmm I dunno about that. Where did you get that figure? I grew up in the USA and did my undergraduate degree there, I'd definitely say students have significantly more debt than that after four years of tuition, accommodation, books, etc.

I also paid more taxes and much higher fees on health insurance when I lived and worked there. I'm able to save more money working in Ireland.

That's my experience, anyway (as someone who's done degrees and worked in both countries).

highly1111

Emmet Drab Gum wrote: »

Yup I applied for both of mine last month. Like you said though the school is very oversubscribed. I also make a monthly donation to Educate Together, I wouldn't in a million years believe that it would have any influence (unlike the mammy who told me about the donation facility in the first place) but I make the donation anyway because I believe that ET schools are a brilliant innovation and hopefully, if more people donate, more schools will open and the places won't be so precious

Unfortunately for you the monthly donation won't make the least bit of odds.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Not really unfortunate for me because I am supporting something I believe in

highly1111

Emmet Drab Gum wrote: »

Not really unfortunate for me because I am supporting something I believe in

Totally get that and more power to you for doing so

Permabear

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munchkin_utd

Permabear wrote: »

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theres also vastly higher benefits in Ireland AND you get a very broad range of medical care for free whereas in the US it costs about $16000 per family for medical insurance.
(yes, Irelands system isnt perfect, but you dont get people committing crimes, to get put in jail to get free medical care to get cancer treatment ! )

European taxes then are higher than Ireland, but higher benefits again.

Back on topic, its a burning issue with me with 2 kids approaching school age and a wife who has notions of moving back to Ireland, but till you go abroad you dont see the giant failings of the irish system.
So much "is on the ciriculum" but really its just a giant wish list that leaves it to chance as to whether a child will do it or not.

I love music but never had a chance to do it at school, whereas in Germany (for instance) thats simply not possible.
I cant swim, but thats also not possible to get through school in some countries without learning.
I have a bit of a clue of nutrition (as in, fat is bad, veggies good), and learnt cooking myself, but jesus, such a basic life skill should be taught in schools and not left to chance as to wether a kid learn it or not.

iguana

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I have a bit of a clue of nutrition (as in, fat is bad, veggies good), and learnt cooking myself, but jesus, such a basic life skill should be taught in schools and not left to chance as to wether a kid learn it or not.

Off topic but most naturally occuring fats, like those in dairy or nuts, are not bad for you. Full fat foods, like milk, cheese and butter, are so much better for you than low fat versions of the products that are highly processed and loaded with additional sugar and even transfats which are both very bad for you, especially the transfats. If you care about your health a good tip is to avoid all artificially low fat products and eat moderate amounts of food in it's more natural form.