I don't agree with the schooling system?

Malabeans

hello! my daughter is now 2 & a half, so not school age as of yet but getting there!
Lately I've been thinking more and more about it and I really don't want to send her to school, i don't like how it's done, how they teach, i feel like kids cant be kids in a school system, it's basically just shaping them into 'good workers', any other parents having this issue? how did you/do you plan on resolving it? any ideas? I think steiner schools sound great but not around me unfortunately and my partner wont move atm

eviltwin

Malabeans wrote: »

hello! my daughter is now 2 & a half, so not school age as of yet but getting there!
Lately I've been thinking more and more about it and I really don't want to send her to school, i don't like how it's done, how they teach, i feel like kids cant be kids in a school system, it's basically just shaping them into 'good workers', any other parents having this issue? how did you/do you plan on resolving it? any ideas? I think steiner schools sound great but not around me unfortunately and my partner wont move atm

What's made you form that opinion out of interest?

I can't say I agree. Maybe it was the case in the past but not so much now. I have one who has just left and her schooling was quite rigid but I've one who is in junior infants in an educate together and it completely different, everything is centred around the development of the individual as well as education obviously. I have no knowledge of Steiner schools but unless you plan to homeschool you should explore the ethos of each individual school around you.

Moonbeam

I know how you feel to an extent.
Montessori primary schools are another alternative or home schooling.

ch750536

Moonbeam wrote: »

I know how you feel to an extenet.
Montessori primary schools are another alternative or home schooling.

https://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_build_a_school_in_the_cloud?language=en

Mind = Blown!

pwurple

Well, there are a whole heap of people who come through the school system who are very far from good workers. Guess it doesn't work.

In my opinion, school gives freedom. It teaches literacy and numeracy. Once you have those, you can learn absolutely anything you want.

lazygal

I'd do research before selecting a Steiner school. It depends on the school but the Steiner philosophy is as whacky as other religious beliefs and schools.

I'm not totally enamoured with the Irish system. The time given to religious indoctrination is baffling, even more so.given the parents I know who don't really believe any of the teachings anyway yet want the school to.rub a bit of religious stuff into their children. The school system here is one big reason we're considering moving abroad for a few years to where my husband was born. Irish schools turn out pupils with an illiteracy rate of 20% or so, far from the "best system in the world" guff.

Sorry op no real advice but I understand your dilemma, albeit for different reasons.

Malabeans

lazygal wrote: »

I'd do research before selecting a Steiner school. It depends on the school but the Steiner philosophy is as whacky as other religious beliefs and schools.

I'm not totally enamoured with the Irish system. The time given to religious indoctrination is baffling, even more so.given the parents I know who don't really believe any of the teachings anyway yet want the school to.rub a bit of religious stuff into their children. The school system here is one big reason we're considering moving abroad for a few years to where my husband was born. Irish schools turn out pupils with an illiteracy rate of 20% or so, far from the "best system in the world" guff.

Sorry op no real advice but I understand your dilemma, albeit for different reasons.

I have done a bit of research, at first i thought it was wacky too but I don't know there is just something about it, i think it allows kids to use their imaginations and learn through actually doing things (like planting gardens, exploring woodlands, dancing etc) rather than just sitting at a desk all day, i think it kind of combines learning with experiencing childhood also and I like that!



Honestly I hated primary school, I was told what to believe and was not able to form my own belief structure, I also had zero interest in sitting at a desk all day, I don't want that for my little one!

We chose not to christen her and let her make her own choice regarding religion as she grows up, so i think even if i wanted to put her into mainstream school I might have issues with that due to the fact they're mostly Christian-based, also have some personal issues with things being shoved down her throat at school, i would like her to learn with an open mind and make her own decisions on these topics.

Malabeans

eviltwin wrote: »

What's made you form that opinion out of interest?

I can't say I agree. Maybe it was the case in the past but not so much now. I have one who has just left and her schooling was quite rigid but I've one who is in junior infants in an educate together and it completely different, everything is centred around the development of the individual as well as education obviously. I have no knowledge of Steiner schools but unless you plan to homeschool you should explore the ethos of each individual school around you.

hello, just looked into the educate together school and that looks really interesting!! I will deffo look into that more!

it's ok that you don't agree, one mans tea is another mans poison and all that!

I feel as though there are allot of way they try to shape kids into factory workers, there are many books on this theory and a quick google search will bring them up

i also don't like how they expect children to sit down at a desk all day doing maths and then if they act like a child at all they are instantly diagnosed with ADHD and considered a problem child, I don't know I guess I feel it goes against the nature of childhood, I like play based learning, kids to explore and learn from adventures and experiments and just having fun, I didn't enjoy primary school and spent most of it daydreaming about being somewhere else so I guess that has been a major influence!
I just want my kids to want to learn and enjoy doing it in a less clinical and structured setting I guess! It is a very personal choice though and as I said, one mans poison is another mans tea

Thanks for the response!

Malabeans

pwurple wrote: »

Well, there are a whole heap of people who come through the school system who are very far from good workers. Guess it doesn't work.

In my opinion, school gives freedom. It teaches literacy and numeracy. Once you have those, you can learn absolutely anything you want.

I personally feel it's very clinical and not very child-friendly, I would think it does the opposite than give freedom, i always felt very trapped in school and I don't feel it's the ideal way for children to learn, but that's just me, mainstream education just isn't to my own personal tastes

Icaras

pwurple wrote: »

Well, there are a whole heap of people who come through the school system who are very far from good workers. Guess it doesn't work.

what about all the people who come through it successfully? There are more productive members of society out there than unproductive. logically it must work to some extent.

Laoislion8383

Both my daughters are in primary school it's the local Catholic school simply because it's the only one around, I find the teacher very good and both my girks are flying it in school. The part that annoys me so much is the religion aspect of it they have to spend a minimum of half and hour each day teaching religion to me this is crazy, I was raised Catholic but not a church goer, my partner was raised church of Ireland and too do not practice her faith so it's pointless teaching my kids religion as we don't practice, it's when it comes to communion I don't know what we are going to do

Malabeans

Laoislion8383 wrote: »

Both my daughters are in primary school it's the local Catholic school simply because it's the only one around, I find the teacher very good and both my girks are flying it in school. The part that annoys me so much is the religion aspect of it they have to spend a minimum of half and hour each day teaching religion to me this is crazy, I was raised Catholic but not a church goer, my partner was raised church of Ireland and too do not practice her faith so it's pointless teaching my kids religion as we don't practice, it's when it comes to communion I don't know what we are going to do

Yeah, I'm all for children learning about world religions and the theories of existence but I feel it's not done right, I remember being told god was real and that was it, no questioning it, Catholicism was definitely the major focus of it and we had to pray twice a day etc, i personally didn't christen my daughter in hopes she could form her own opinions and belief structure but I don't think that would be very possible in mainstream school.

lazygal

Malabeans wrote: »

Yeah, I'm all for children learning about world religions and the theories of existence but I feel it's not done right, I remember being told god was real and that was it, no questioning it, Catholicism was definitely the major focus of it and we had to pray twice a day etc, i personally didn't christen my daughter in hopes she could form her own opinions and belief structure but I don't think that would be very possible in mainstream school.

Well unfortunately it depends on the schools and teachers. The local school to us is Catholic but I know it's well used to accommodating non Catholics. When communion rolls.around well tell ours instead of making communion and having to go to masses they get to go away on a holiday. I wouldn't indoctrinate them just to make them fit in. Children will always spot differences, and a good school should be able to deal with that. Conversely there's two other schools that give no leeway whatsoever when it comes to indoctrination so we won't even consider them.

Malabeans

Icaras wrote: »

what about all the people who come through it successfully? There are more productive members of society out there than unproductive. logically it must work to some extent.

I feel it could be improved allot, if it works so well why do the majority of kids end up on some kind of medication at some point, why are so many children on ritalin/adderal and why are a scary amount of teenagers on anti- depressants, anxiety medications and even anti-psychotics?
I don't think the problem is with the children but the education system, if a kid gets bored and acts out they are diagnosed with a behavioural disorder instead of it being taken into consideration that they are children and not designed to sit at a desk all day. :P

Laoislion8383

Malabeans wrote: »

Yeah, I'm all for children learning about world religions and the theories of existence but I feel it's not done right, I remember being told god was real and that was it, no questioning it, Catholicism was definitely the major focus of it and we had to pray twice a day etc, i personally didn't christen my daughter in hopes she could form her own opinions and belief structure but I don't think that would be very possible in mainstream school.

I had both my kids christened in the Catholic church, firstly pressure from grandparents, secondly to ensure they got into school as you need to have being baptised before u can enroll, like u I would have no problem with them being thought all religions from all over the world let the child make up their own minds but like it was when I was a kid Catholic beliefs are forced onto kids

Malabeans

lazygal wrote: »

Well unfortunately it depends on the schools and teachers. The local school to us is Catholic but I know it's well used to accommodating non Catholics. When communion rolls.around well tell ours instead of making communion and having to go to masses they get to go away on a holiday. I wouldn't indoctrinate them just to make them fit in. Children will always spot differences, and a good school should be able to deal with that. Conversely there's two other schools that give no leeway whatsoever when it comes to indoctrination so we won't even consider them.

The holiday is a nice idea! That's usually the argument towards me not christening my daughter- the communion always gets mentioned! but I think that's a lovely idea about the holiday

lazygal

Malabeans wrote: »

I feel it could be improved allot, if it works so well why do the majority of kids end up on some kind of medication at some point, why are so many children on ritalin/adderal and why are a scary amount of teenagers on anti- depressants, anxiety medications and even anti-psychotics?
I don't think the problem is with the children but the education system, if a kid gets bored and acts out they are diagnosed with a behavioural disorder instead of it being taken into consideration that they are children and not designed to sit at a desk all day. :P

Op.you're veering into tinfoil hat territory here. The majority of children do not end up on medication and a diagnosis of being in the autism spectrum is actually difficult and rare to get. Most children cope fine and aren't labelled adhd immediately there are any issues.

Malabeans

Laoislion8383 wrote: »

I had both my kids christened in the Catholic church, firstly pressure from grandparents, secondly to ensure they got into school as you need to have being baptised before u can enroll, like u I would have no problem with them being thought all religions from all over the world let the child make up their own minds but like it was when I was a kid Catholic beliefs are forced onto kids

Ah yes, that unavoidable pressure from the grandparents! :P
Yes, I think it's definitely time for a change, religion should not be the basis of education.

Eugene Norman

lazygal wrote: »

I'd do research before selecting a Steiner school. It depends on the school but the Steiner philosophy is as whacky as other religious beliefs and schools.

I'm not totally enamoured with the Irish system. The time given to religious indoctrination is baffling, even more so.given the parents I know who don't really believe any of the teachings anyway yet want the school to.rub a bit of religious stuff into their children. The school system here is one big reason we're considering moving abroad for a few years to where my husband was born. Irish schools turn out pupils with an illiteracy rate of 20% or so, far from the "best system in the world" guff.

Sorry op no real advice but I understand your dilemma, albeit for different reasons.

That's rubbish on two counts. Firstly you can skip religion even in catholic schools and in many schools it's not even taught.

Secondly in reading comprehension Ireland is 2nd in Europe and 6th out of 65 in the last PISA tests.

The 20% functional illiteracy meme seems to be an Indo derived statistic. Firstly it applies to the adult population as a whole. Plenty of people past 50 didn't go to 2nd level even as free schooling wasn't there. Secondly it means "functional illiteracy" - the literacy needed to function in the world as it is.

Being able to read the Sun and not understanding a software licence or a medical form is functional illiteracy. Frankly if you used technological literature and assumed you needed to be functional you need to understand these technical terms it's not surprising that the figures are 20% but surprising that they are not higher.

Malabeans

lazygal wrote: »

Op.you're veering into tinfoil hat territory here. The majority of children do not end up on medication and a diagnosis of being in the autism spectrum is actually difficult and rare to get. Most children cope fine and aren't labelled adhd immediately there are any issues.

Heya, sorry I don't mean to come across as a conspiracist or anything! haha
honestly I am speaking from personal experience, there were numerous children diagnosed with ADHD in my classroom alone when looking back- they were just being children, we expect too much from them.

I was also one of the many teenagers in my secondary school who was plonked with a diagnosis and fed medication just because i spoke about how the school system wasn't working for me.

I understand that allot of children are well behaved and thrive in mainstream school, but there are also allot that don't and it seems they tend to be labeled a problem child etc, i don't think education is a one-size fits all kind of thing, i think it's nice to have options to suit the wants of your own children etc

Eugene Norman

Malabeans wrote: »

I feel it could be improved allot, if it works so well why do the majority of kids end up on some kind of medication at some point, why are so many children on ritalin/adderal and why are a scary amount of teenagers on anti- depressants, anxiety medications and even anti-psychotics?
I don't think the problem is with the children but the education system, if a kid gets bored and acts out they are diagnosed with a behavioural disorder instead of it being taken into consideration that they are children and not designed to sit at a desk all day. :P

It's neither the children nor the education system but modern psychology, which is pill happy. I think you are right about ADHD

The problem with the older Irish education system was it bullied kids into performance, nowadays it seems much more relaxed.

Laoislion8383

Malabeans wrote: »

Ah yes, that unavoidable pressure from the grandparents! :P
Yes, I think it's definitely time for a change, religion should not be the basis of education.

No but I feel there is still a bit to go in Ireland before it does change unfortunately

Icaras

Malabeans wrote: »

I feel it could be improved allot, if it works so well why do the majority of kids end up on some kind of medication at some point, why are so many children on ritalin/adderal and why are a scary amount of teenagers on anti- depressants, anxiety medications and even anti-psychotics?
I don't think the problem is with the children but the education system, if a kid gets bored and acts out they are diagnosed with a behavioural disorder instead of it being taken into consideration that they are children and not designed to sit at a desk all day. :P

I don't have the stats to comment about the medication bit but I feel this is an exaggeration.
Agreed the system could improve but I don't think it's fundamentally broken either, as another poster said above I think the teacher is the most important factor.

Wanderer78

op you have just sparked off some fairly deep anger im gaining towards our educational system. i feel its failing us in many serious ways. i ll try keep this short but that probably wont happen. for starters, we need to implement a free educational system for all, always. this is putting parents under too much pressure in order to educate their kids. homework has got to stop. it is giving kids the impression that you should spend all day in school(work), working hard, then when its done you have to bring your 'work' home with you or you ll fail! WTF! kids will of course eventually leave the educational system, thinking, this is how i need to behave in order to get ahead in life, i.e. in order to have a successful career, i must put in 12 odd hour days and bring my work home with me or i ll be a failure! this causes detrimental health problems for many. our second level system fails in preparing many kids for adulthood and our third level fails to prepare many for the workforce. there is too much emphasis on the world of academia and not enough time educating kids about industries like the trades. some kids have no interest in the world of academia and may not have the abilities to do so. this can isolate many, some of which many turn to such things as criminality, and some may develop such serious problems such as addiction and mental health problems due to this isolation. after being recently diagnosed with dyslexia, ive realised there must be thousands of people in ireland similar to me and must have struggled like myself through the system. i am aware there has been major developments in our system though regarding these issues but i feel its just not enough. i feel our system is a mess and sadly wont change enough or quickly enough, thus casting many aside and leaving them isolated to the detriment of their well being. i have more strong opinions regarding this matter but i ll leave it at that.

eviltwin

Malabeans wrote: »

hello, just looked into the educate together school and that looks really interesting!! I will deffo look into that more!

it's ok that you don't agree, one mans tea is another mans poison and all that!

I feel as though there are allot of way they try to shape kids into factory workers, there are many books on this theory and a quick google search will bring them up

i also don't like how they expect children to sit down at a desk all day doing maths and then if they act like a child at all they are instantly diagnosed with ADHD and considered a problem child, I don't know I guess I feel it goes against the nature of childhood, I like play based learning, kids to explore and learn from adventures and experiments and just having fun, I didn't enjoy primary school and spent most of it daydreaming about being somewhere else so I guess that has been a major influence!
I just want my kids to want to learn and enjoy doing it in a less clinical and structured setting I guess! It is a very personal choice though and as I said, one mans poison is another mans tea

Thanks for the response!

I understand your concern. My son is five and had aspergers, he doesn't suit sitting at a desk for long periods of time. The educate together has been excellent for him. They do a lot of hands on learning, there is lots of movement in the classroom and they only sit at their desks for handwriting and lunch. They don't use many textbooks either which I think is great. They have a crash and bang room which is full of trampolines, big balls, weighed blankets and if they need a time out they can go into it, they explore philosophy, do lots of messy play, cooking, dance, drama etc. I know the more formal primary school down the road is a lot more traditional and the kind of thing you're talking about. It seems to depend very much on the individual school. You'll find a school that is the right fit.

Wanderer78

eviltwin wrote: »

educate together

are these schools expensive?

Laoislion8383

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are these schools expensive?

No more expensive than a normal school, educate together schools are state funded I think, but I could be wrong

eviltwin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are these schools expensive?

No, they are free. No fees just 80 euros for book rental and are supplies. No uniform. I like them because it based on equality so there is a more open system. Kids call teachers by their first names, it's not authoritarian. My eldest just left sixth year and was treated with less respect than my five year old, the religious schools are a bit behind the curve.

Wanderer78

eviltwin wrote: »

No, they are free. No fees just 80 euros for book rental and are supplies. No uniform. I like them because it based on equality so there is a more open system. Kids call teachers by their first names, it's not authoritarian. My eldest just left sixth year and was treated with less respect than my five year old, the religious schools are a bit behind the curve.

and this is a part of the problem. we have got to stop thinking the odd fee here and there is 'free'. believe it or not, some families cant afford these odd fees, and they all add up. schools sound like a great idea though. referendum has shown us, church is extremely disconnected from society. think they are in serious trouble to be honest.

eviltwin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

and this is a part of the problem. we have got to stop thinking the odd fee here and there is 'free'. believe it or not, some families cant afford these odd fees, and they all add up. schools sound like a great idea though. referendum has shown us, church is extremely disconnected from society. think they are in serious trouble to be honest.

It's a small price to pay for a great school.

Wanderer78

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a small price to pay for a great school.

ah look, we dont have a free education system and we desperately need one