Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

SomeFool

tipparetops wrote: »

those figure are skewed, I would like to see those figures just for Dublin.
Cycling in the sticks does not really exist compared to Dublin.

I split my time between Kerry and cork, plenty cycling down this part if the world. I commute to work by bike with plenty other cyclists on the road, there's a healthy racing/leisure scene and cork city has just launched a public bike scheme. If you only want to see the negative in something, and have no experience of it you actually bring nothing relevant to the debate.

Harrybelafonte

Every time I go home to the arse of Donegal I'll go for a spin... I meet multiple riders every single time. Seriously, I'm from the pits of the country and when I'd go out cycling as a kid, I'd be the only one, now there are groups going past me. It does most definitely exist.

yop

SomeFool wrote: »

I split my time between Kerry and cork, plenty cycling down this part if the world. I commute to work by bike with plenty other cyclists on the road, there's a healthy racing/leisure scene and cork cityhas just launched a public bike scheme. If you only want to see the negative in something, and have no experience of it you actually bring nothingh relevant to the debate.

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Every time I go home to the arse of Donegal I'll go for a spin... I meet multiple riders every single time. Seriously, I'm from the pits of the country and when I'd go out cycling as a kid, I'd be the only one, now there are groups going past me. It does most definitely exist.

We all know it exists so don't rise to it. Look at the number of Sportives and clubs setting up outside of Dublin in the last 12 months and we can see a pretty steady rise month on month. With programs like the "Couch to Saddle" been promoted and dedicated Leisure groups in the clubs this will continue on an upward spiral.

We will always have people who just dont like cyclists, its a case of protecting ourselves on the bikes and watching out for the idiots who have no regard for anyone else.

The program last night showed cyclists and pedestrians acting stupidly, idiots will exist no matter what activity is it, just have to make sure your not one of them.

tipparetops

I rarely see cyclists on the roads.
Not the picture you paint, I regularly see the lads who get dressed up at the weekends.
I would be driving around south east regularly , a big area for cycling once with links to Sean kelly, I rarely see cyclists outside the weekend crowd and even that is small.

Daithi101

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

Same here, I commute 40kms a day, have been riding a bike in Dublin for 41 years.

To echo others, ride defensively, expect the worst, be grateful for anything else. Oh and hydro disk brakes too.

Same as with the exception of the 41 years .... I have found self preservation is key to happy commute, that and asking myself would I do that if I was driving, ie try and undertake a bus/car/van/lorry indicating to turn left.

And I wonder how those extra 30 seconds that are gained by running that red light or holding back a while a vehicle completes a turn regardless of whether they are right or wrong to do it.

Personally though I like like overtaking the people who run red lights a 100 yards down to the road, (repeat for numerous sets of traffic lights) :cool:

Thargor

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Helmets? Check.
High-Viz? Check.
Whataboutery? Check.
Straw men? Check.

I'm shaping up to call "Bingo" here.

Dont forget "Ive nothing against cyclists but <insert something against cyclists>".

check_six

Thargor wrote: »

Dont forget "Ive nothing against cyclists but <insert something against cyclists>".

"Some of my best friends are cyclists..."

Cantona's Collars

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098972/The-moment-sorrowful-truck-driver-shook-hand-cyclist-s-widow-admitting-killing-road-accident.html

James Ward OBE, prosecuting, said Mr Bamford cycled on to the road and when he found he couldn't continue on the footpath, he dismounted.

He attempted to walk his bike between the lorries, but while the gap he entered was 81cm, he found he couldn't exit a 36cm gap at the other end.

Mr Ward said he backtracked but caught his jacket on Keegan's lorry, and the driver drew off without checking his nearside mirror.

'Mr Bamford was dragged around ten feet,' Mr Ward told the court.

'The bike fell away from him and people were yelling for the driver to stop.

'Mr Bamford was released from being stuck, he fell to the floor and the nearside rear tyre came into contact with him and killed him instantly.'

schemingbohemia

zerks wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098972/The-moment-sorrowful-truck-driver-shook-hand-cyclist-s-widow-admitting-killing-road-accident.html

Struggling to see the relevance of that post.

Does anyone know if the HGV driver (Kieran Long) in the death of Karl McGee included in the Prime Time report was charged with dangerous driving? I can only find a reference to a civil case being settled last year online.

I found the inclusion of a death from 6 years ago rather odd, perhaps the death of the poor girl in Blackrock might have been more relevant.

seamus

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I found the inclusion of a death from 6 years ago rather odd, perhaps the death of the poor girl in Blackrock might have been more relevant.

I guess the aim was to demonstrate the issue within the canal cordon in relation to road space, rather than come to point fingers at any particular type of vehicle or to try and say that cycling is dangerous.

Though in one regard the fact that they had to go back to 2009 to find an example for the programme in fact illustrates the exact opposite of what they're trying to intimate. The Dublin City area is on raw figures insanely safe to cycle in. The fact that 10,000 commuters cross into the city area by bike every day - not including the volume of trips made within the city; 5,000 dublinbikes journeys per day, plus couriers and residents inside the city - goes to show that in fact we're actually doing pretty damn good.

inforfun

I am Dutch so i was cycling before i could walk... And cycled a lot.
But when i arrived here i gave up cycling after 2 months. It is a pity because i could use the exercise but I value my life just a little bit too much.
Infrastructure being rotten is one thing but behaviour and total lack of having a clue of a lot of road users is another thing.

Everybody agrees (car) driving standards are piss poor in this country, lots of people just ****ing about. So as soon as they climb on a bicycle you think it will be different?

L'Enfer du Nord

To be fair I often see cyclists take stupid risks. Was cycling across the East Link, North bound recently. There was a truck waiting behind a car at the round-about on the North end of the bridge. I slowed down to a stop behind the truck on the basis it could move off at any time and turn left on to the round-about. I hear some tuting behind me and a cyclist comes past me and 'filters' inside the truck. He got by fine and the truck took off about 30 seconds later. Is it ever worth the risk to save a few seconds?

Alf Veedersane

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

To be fair I often see cyclists take stupid risks.

I don't think anyone sane would disagree. There are stupid cyclists, stupid pedestrians and stupid drivers.

But they're a minority in each.

magicbastarder

one response to the argument that cyclists should be licenced - i wonder how many drivers out there are driving on full licences without having passed the test, because of the amnesty in 1979. over 60,000 licences were handed out.
my mother has a full licence and never passed a test.

L'Enfer du Nord

tipparetops wrote: »

Collision insurance, it could be state led.
100€ for the year.

...

[When asked who should pay]
everyone who cycles on a road with motorists.

So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.

Qualitymark

If motorists are very worried about the safety of cyclists sharing roads with them, I hope they're going to campaign for separate cycle lanes of the quality that's the norm in Germany, Holland and Denmark.

Grandpa Hassan

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.

Haha. And my GF's occasional 1 mile cycle to Tesco for emergency groceries is going to be very expensive. As if Tesco isn't expensive enough

tipparetops

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

So at least a 1000 euros per child (up to the age of 18) for parents who want their children to be able to cycle as a form of road transport.

I think having a child cycling around with you could become a status symbol. Its one way to encourage cycling I suppose.

100 not a 1000
i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.

seamus

tipparetops wrote: »

100 not a 1000
i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.

In comparison to car insurance, €100 is insanely expensive.

€10 would be more appropriate. But as other countries have found, the cost of admin and enforcement is basically not worth it.

adrian522

How does insurance make them accountable? I'm lost here. Who is being paid this insurance and what are you insuring against?

For your car you are paying insurance so that if you damage someone else's car you can pay to have it repaired. Not sure what the point of this is at all.

Bike isn't going to do much damage to a car in an accident. So who is getting the premium and what is being insured, i.e what would you put in a claim for?

cython

tipparetops wrote: »

100 not a 1000
i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.

And I suppose you advocate them only starting to cycle at 17? :rolleyes:

Most people start cycling quite young (plenty of them have learned by age 8), so if you are proposing a fee of €100 p.a. in insurance for all cyclists then €1000 is realistic cost per child.

Chips Lovell

If a cyclist is not insured, they are still potentially liable for any damages they cause. Some cyclists are insured. Some aren't.

Mandatory motor insurance exists because the number and cost of accidents was high enough that it was decided that the cost of enforcement was outweighed by the societal benefit of obligating motorists to insure themselves. You'd need a massive increase in the number of accidents for the same argument to be made for cyclists.

Simply saying you should have compulsory insurance because you might have an accident means the same logic would call for compulsory pedestrian insurance and suchlike.

magicbastarder

you are legally obliged to be insured to cover damage you could do to third parties; the damage bikes can and do impart to other vehicles and road users can't be anything close to a small fraction of the damage a car can do.

Jawgap

tipparetops wrote: »

100 not a 1000
i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.

Not if you're on minimum wage using your bike to get to / from work.

Compulsory insurance on bikes would be hugely regressive.

Grandpa Hassan

tipparetops wrote: »

100 not a 1000
i think that 100 is very cheap, and it would make cyclists more aware if they could be held accountable.

Insurance and licensing has been tried elsewhere. It doesn't work. Cars go on roads and are driven by licensed drivers. Bike use varies between lycra clad commuters, my GF who only uses it on dollymount strand, kids who cycle in the park....the range is endless. It is impossible to draw a line. The cost and complexity massively outweighs any perceived benefit. It will never happen

The Bishop Basher

Which countries have tried it ? I've had a look but can't find anything online. Not doubting you. Just interested in reading about it.

Jawgap

The Swiss do it - cost about €4 per year.

The Bishop Basher

Jawgap wrote: »

The Swiss do it - cost about €4 per year.

Seems reasonable. No doubt it would be multiples of that here.

Still, if the Swiss can do it successfully there's no reason why we can't.

Would be better seeing that money spent on contributing to the development and maintenance of a proper cycling infrastructure but we also know that wouldn't happen here. It would be redirected to Denis's pension fund one way or another.....

Jawgap

Swanner wrote: »

Seems reasonable. No doubt it would be multiples of that here.

Still, if the Swiss can do it successfully there's no reason why we can't.

'Cos we're not Swiss and the cost of enforcement / administration would be too high.

tomasrojo

The Swiss stopped that scheme a few years ago. Even before then, it didn't resemble car insurance.