Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

Somebody who knew the courier posted here ages ago. Tragic story all round, if what he said was accurate. The pedestrian wasn't clipped, IIRC; he was startled and walked back abruptly, tripped on the kerb and hit his head.

correct and slipped, amazing how the memory of it fades over time, I was only working about 20metres down the street.

Deleted User wrote: »

So that when I take a wing mirror or damage the side of a car or hit a person I have coverage to repair?

If you are that concerned you should get insurance, the one time it has happened to me,I just paid for it. It wasn't my fault but the party that hit me, the car with insurance etc., drove off so I was left footing the bill for the wing mirror I took off.

I do not have insurance for my moto cycle because it is dangerous. I have it so I can pay any damage that might happen

I have insurance on my car for two reasons, one its the law but more importantly, if I ever did cause any serious accident, the potential for damage would most likely be outside of my capabilities, on the bike, statistically, I am unlikely to be in an accident at all, and if I was the cause, it would be unlikely that the cost would be astronomical.

RainyDay

CramCycle wrote: »

correct and slipped, amazing how the memory of it fades over time, I was only working about 20metres down the street.

Which street did it happen on? Somebody mentioned Baggot St, but that's not one-way.

schemingbohemia

RainyDay wrote: »

Which street did it happen on? Somebody mentioned Baggot St, but that's not one-way.

It is, between Merrion Row and Pembroke Street.

CramCycle

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It is, between Merrion Row and Pembroke Street.

Exactly, very near Toners pub

roverrules

May not happen often, but often enough for this little girl
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/threeyearold-girl-hit-by-cyclist-and-dragged-for-12ft-along-the-pavement--video-10267739.html

UDP

roverrules wrote: »

May not happen often, but often enough for this little girl
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/threeyearold-girl-hit-by-cyclist-and-dragged-for-12ft-along-the-pavement--video-10267739.html

But she wasn't killed or even seriously injured which kind of proves the point (of course the cyclist was an idiot and deserves punishment under law). If it had been a motorbike or car the outcome would have been much different and medical costs astronomically higher etc.

CramCycle

roverrules wrote: »

May not happen often, but often enough for this little girl
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/threeyearold-girl-hit-by-cyclist-and-dragged-for-12ft-along-the-pavement--video-10267739.html

Both examples were insurance would have not made a jot of difference, both cyclists were breaking the law, no insurance company would stand over them.

The guy in the orange should be facing jail time, not only for the accident but fleeing a scene (essentially a hit and run), a complete lack of humanity no matter how he gets around.

L'Enfer du Nord

[not asking this in relation to the specific tragedy on Baggot street]

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

JBokeh

Could you imagine fully comp cycle insurance?! The amount of lads that would milk that system for all it's worth would probably make the second years insurance for everyone more than the car insurance costs!

3rd party insurance would be pretty useless, what good would that be to your average weekend warrior that hits the roads for a bit of exercise in the evenings and weekends, his/her risk of hitting a car or pedestrian would be virtually nothing, closest I've come was cycling into my own car on the driveway, and one incident with tourists wandering about a village without looking.

Commuting is a completely different ball game, cyclists in closet proximity to each other could end up in a tip, though I've never seen it. If things do end up going in the way of America and people start suing each other maybe something on the health insurance that would cover a 3rd parties medical costs, or busted smartphone,However not everyone has health insurance, so they're likely to get sued :eek:

roverrules

UDP wrote: »

But she wasn't killed or even seriously injured which kind of proves the point (of course the cyclist was an idiot and deserves punishment under law). If it had been a motorbike or car the outcome would have been much different and medical costs astronomically higher etc.

She was blasted along the pavement, she was LUCKY that she wasn't seriously hurt and you don't know if she would have been as lucky with a car/motorbike.

How many one punch incidents do you read about, a punch isn't likely to be as strong a force as a cyclist running into someone

CatFromHue

Just watched it back on the player and it kinda just seemed a bit of a pointless segment.

There was no real conclusion or point made, well other than more people cycle nowadays.

CramCycle

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

[not asking this in relation to the specific tragedy on Baggot street]

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

Unless they are all on break when I pass them it should not be that hard, most tend not to hammer it, if you can ramp speed between lights, you will fine.

And I am far from the fastest guy on the road.

RainyDay

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

Just like the way many taxis routinely break traffic laws, and many truck drivers, and some coach drivers...

Aard

^ It's much easier for people to notice errant cyclists and take exception to them because they are "other" while taxis, vans, trucks etc are closer to being "one of us" and go comparatively unnoticed.

Pinch Flat

Aard wrote: »

^ It's much easier for people to notice errant cyclists and take exception to them because they are "other" while taxis, vans, trucks etc are closer to being "one of us" and go comparatively unnoticed.

This is one of the points that puzzles me. Sure, plenty of cyclists break reds and go up one way streets - both these could be dealt with by simple amendments to traffic laws - so break a red turning left of use the Lhs of a one way street as a contra flow - no big deal.

But the overwhelming amount of kn0bish behavior is still by motorists - breaking reds, parking on double yellows, stopping while straddling pedestrian crossings, occupying yellow boxes, parking / stopping inconsideratly etc.

This is so common place now that it's almost tolerated or expected. A lot of the animosity towards cyclists can be along the lines of "damn I'm stick in a traffic jam, spent 30 minutes covering a kilometre - who can I blame? Oh look a cyclist breaking a red"

nak

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

[not asking this in relation to the specific tragedy on Baggot street]

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

Depends how much money you want to make. It is possible and not everyone riding around town with a bag on is a courier. I got the stinkeye from a motorbike courier on the way home from work recently as he thought I was outside the pushbike boundary taking work from him.

Tenzor07

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

Like another poster already said, it depends on how much money the courier wants to make.. I see couriers now with cargo style bikes so pretty much impossible to zip around town as quickly as on a regular bike....

tomasrojo

roverrules wrote: »

She was blasted along the pavement, she was LUCKY that she wasn't seriously hurt and you don't know if she would have been as lucky with a car/motorbike.

Well, let's treat a bicycle as one unit of kinetic energy. How much more energy can a car impart if it hits a pedestrian? At the same speed, it's propotional to the mass. So say a bike plus rider is 100kg, an average car these days is about 1500kg, so fifteen times the kinetic energy. Much less likely to have a benign outcome.

But when you look at a likely disparity in speed, you get much worse outcomes. If the bike is travelling quite fast (30km/h) and a car is travelling at quite a usual speed, unfortunately, in suburban areas in Ireland (50km/h), the car has forty-two times the kinetic energy (kinetic energy rises as a square of velocity).

So while we can't comment on any individual case with certainty, we can say with absolute certainty that on average a car is much more likely to kill a pedestrian. And since cyclists killing pedestrians is close to a freak occurrence, real-world statistics bear this out too.

roverrules wrote: »

How many one punch incidents do you read about, a punch isn't likely to be as strong a force as a cyclist running into someone

People being killed by punches is more common than people being killed by bikes. It's a targeted application of force to a vulnerable part of the body. In any case, to use your analogy again, how does a punch compare to being hit by a car?

niceonetom

Mandatory fist insurance? Or mandatory styrofoam gloves?

CramCycle

niceonetom wrote: »

Mandatory fist insurance? Or mandatory styrofoam gloves?

Bubble wrap everyone or bring in those "surrogates" from comics. Mandatory sumo suits might do the job as well.

magicbastarder

niceonetom wrote: »

Or mandatory styrofoam gloves?

there's an article i once read which i should dig out about how bare knuckle boxing is safer than boxing with padded boxing gloves.

JMcL

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

CramCycle wrote: »

No, they can't, only if going reasonably slowly. Your front brake is what gives you decent stopping power. The rear one, at speed, will just skid and slow you if travelling at speed.

And a lad in Manchester has been kind enough to illustrate exactly this point (accompanying road.cc article with background)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Q5ldUE-u8

Tenzor07

JMcL wrote: »

And a lad in Manchester has been kind enough to illustrate exactly this point (accompanying road.cc article with background)

Snapped cable

The driver of a Manchester bus that a cyclist ran into the side of after going through a red light has defended the rider’s actions after the latter said that his brake cable had snapped.

Beasty

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Snapped cable

Maybe that's what happened with the taxi also?

Tenzor07

Well spotted!

Beasty

It actually turns to amber (which means stop) 8 seconds before that frame freeze

Tenzor07

And looking at the youtube comments, most of them seem not to have noticed the Taxi breaking the lights and instead pick on the bicyclist.. :rolleyes:

Grandpa Hassan

Beasty wrote: »

It actually turns to amber (which means stop) 8 seconds before that frame freeze

Amber doesn't mean stop. It means accelerate, in order to minimize how blatantly you break the red

seamus

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

Hah, I've always asked myself that question. Be interesting to hear from people who've worked as a courier and made an effort to be lawful.

Though I suspect after a while you could learn to be nimble enough to perform cyclocross-esque dismounts and mounts to get you through practically any junction, so you'll be a law-breaking ped rather than cyclist

Chips Lovell

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Is it possible to work as a bicycle courier without routinely breaking traffic laws? From casual observation it looks like par for the course. If you don't do it can you compete in terms of delivery times.

I think it's less about delivery times and more about aesthetics. You don't look terribly hipsterish if you aren't insouciantly blowing through red lights.