Piece on Cyclists on Prime Time RTE 1 9.35PM - Mod warning see OP/post 102

ThisRegard

tomasrojo wrote: »

Where's "militant"?

Road Tax is the top trump.

07Lapierre

greenfrogs wrote: »

I actually can't believe that some people don't wear a helmet when cycling. What if you lost your balance whilst cycling due to a pothole, debris on the road, what if you had to serve whilst avoiding an obstacle and ended up on the ground. I play sports which involve a helmet. I honestly forget I am even wearing it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/time-to-use-your-head-and-wear-a-helmet-when-cycling-302523.html

I did think the programme included good points. Being aware of your surroundings and anticipating can really be beneficial for all users of the road.

I can't believe people actually drive their cars at 120kph on the M50 and don't wear a helmet.Dont have a 5 point harness seat belt, don't have a roll cage and don't wear flame proof clothing( preferably hi-viz if travelling at night) do these people not realise what could happens in the event of a crash?

Inquitus

Jawgap wrote: »

I was neatly killed by a footpad cyclist anecdote? check


HOUSE!!!!!!


What do I win?

A high viz, and a weeks supply of breakfast rolls!

Nekarsulm

Its not until Prime Time cover a subject that you actually know about, that you realise just how slap dash and Tabloid an effort P T actually is.
Lazy reporting, minimal intelligent investigation, lots of dramatic sound bites and always aiming for the "shock" factor.

"Flagship" (their own words) investigative programme my ass!

Have a look at the Shooting thread on Boards to see what others think. Ignored statistics, false figures, crafty cameras and lighting, film of toy guns which they purported to be real, etc, etc.

tomasrojo

MAMiL strangely absent.

Jawgap

greenfrogs wrote: »

I actually can't believe that some people don't wear a helmet when cycling. What if you lost your balance whilst cycling due to a pothole, debris on the road, what if you had to serve whilst avoiding an obstacle and ended up on the ground. I play sports which involve a helmet. I honestly forget I am even wearing it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/time-to-use-your-head-and-wear-a-helmet-when-cycling-302523.html

I did think the programme included good points. Being aware of your surroundings and anticipating can really be beneficial for all users of the road.

07Lapierre wrote: »

I can't believe people actually drive their cars at 120kph on the M50 and don't wear a helmet.Dont have a 5 point harness seat belt, don't have a roll cage and don't wear flame proof clothing( preferably hi-viz if travelling at night) do these people not realise what could happens in the event of a crash?

......and I can't believe it's not butter

Jawgap

tomasrojo wrote: »

MAMiL strangely absent.

I'm sure it'll be along shortly......

......riding two abreast, or is it to a breast?

tipparetops

ted1 wrote: »

Beasty directed people to the thread .

Like any third party ? Your still not being specific, there's more risk of runners causing trouble to 3rd parties while running on footpaths etc.

Motor insurance is compulsary because of the high claims and frequencies of claims that come about.

Can you show me a case where a cyclist has been taking to court and ordered to pay costs. Your trying to put a solution in place to a problem that doesn't exist

2 reasons why not
1. they have no insurance
2. they are as good at running as cycling

tomasrojo

greenfrogs wrote: »

What if you lost your balance whilst cycling due to a pothole, debris on the road, what if you had to serve whilst avoiding an obstacle and ended up on the ground.

I seem to come off my bike about once a decade or so. I use my hands to prevent my head coming into contact with the ground. It only needs to work about four more times, max.

greenfrogs

07Lapierre wrote: »

I can't believe people actually drive their cars at 120kph on the M50 and don't wear a helmet.Dont have a 5 point harness seat belt, don't have a roll cage and don't wear flame proof clothing( preferably hi-viz if travelling at night) do these people not realise what could happens in the event of a crash?

People wear seat belts in cars. All of us know in some crashes no matter what safety gear you wear you will not survive. However there are less severe crashes where the appropriate safety gear can reduce injury.

To a previous poster I didn't realise concussion is such an issue in soccer and football. I can't believe rugby is even a sport. It's far too vicious for me.

Beasty

greenfrogs wrote: »

People wear seat belts in cars. All of us know in some crashes no matter what safety gear you wear you will not survive. However there are less severe crashes where the appropriate safety gear can reduce injury.

To a previous poster I didn't realise concussion is such an issue in soccer and football. I can't believe rugby is even a sport. It's far too vicious for me.

Final warning - no more helmet discussion in this thread. Use the helmet megathread (which is linked from the Charter/FAQ sticky)

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in thread

Goose81

Why do cyclists get so defensive?

I drive a motorbike, a car and I cycle. Cyclists in the main are dreadful, you have to remember this is an enthusiasts forum and you dont represent the standards of your average cyclist.

I don't know what the answer to insurance for cyclists but it is relevant to bring it up. Serious damage can be caused and you cant be immune because your vehicle doesn't have an engine.

Every day on a bike I use the things I was thought on the IBT for when I was learning to ride my motorbike, alot of cyclist could do with something similar.

When I say that I mean in a more precautionary way, I always assume a car is going to the worst thing possible, I know im vulnerable regardless of when im right. Lots of cyclists seem to prefer berating drivers poor skills than watching out for their own safety. Always presume the worst.

Tigerandahalf

I must admit I loved the courier guy on the bike. A dangerous job in the city with those narrow lanes.
He went about pointing out the mistakes of various car drivers, then goes down the street with no helmet (which in fairness he does not have to wear) and then takes his hands off the handlebars. He also dives into the tiniest little gaps in traffic. How he isn't killed I don't know.
The best bit was when he came up behind a fairly heavy guy cycling and starts to moan about these bike to work type cyclists. The ignorance of the chap is rather funny.
In looking at the programme it came across that both cyclists and motorists were unaware of some of the rules of the road but the biggest thing is that it isn't safe to putting cyclists and motorists down the same lanes of traffic.
I cycle and drive and have made plenty of errors doing both but as a cyclist you are very vulnerable. No second chance.

Carawaystick

greenfrogs wrote: »

To a previous poster I didn't realise concussion is such an issue in soccer and football. I can't believe rugby is even a sport. It's far too vicious for me.

You might have missed the last soccer world cup where players were knocked out and stayed playing after coming to. Or even if you just watched the final, the german keeper kicked an argentinian player in the head. Apparently this is not allowed as the german keeper got a free for the argentinian headbutting his foot, so at least fifa are trying their best to fix things...


And for tipparetops' great idea of photoid, how long would the id be valid for? because when little miss carawaystick is 13, she'll look a lot different to when she was 3 and cycling on the road.
I also wonder what the health part of the course entail? Would it dwell on childhood obesity and inactivity?
And when you say high viz, could you be clear as to what you mean? Could a cyclist wear high viz and then wear a backpack completely covering the high viz from behind?
Could the cyclist wear a fluorescent top with no retroreflective material at night?
Could a cyclist wear non-fluorescent top with lots of retroreflective material at night? You know because fluorescent material only shines when uv hits it and there's very little from headlights or streetlights so it is no better than ordinary cloth in the dark.

As for insurance, would there be a levy to help poor Seanie Quinn and to pay yer man Neary's gold plated pension?
Would it be necessary for scooters?
I presume you'ld like to see it compulsory for users for flickers too?
Do you think there'd be a cheaper rate for bikes with stabilisers?

Comic_book_guy_from_the_Simpsons wrote:

Worst. Idea. Ever.

greenfrogs

I think even showing how dangerous it can get for cyclists on their journey is interesting. Seeing on prime time when the cyclist and bus were both turning a corner it actually made me squirm. I don't cycle so therefore may not take into account things from a cyclists perspective. For example when I learned to drive I realised just how dangerous pedestrians can be by jay walking, not looking both ways before crossing etc. So now I would be more aware of my surroundings as a pedestrian. Seeing things from a cyclists perspective would be an eye opener. Near where I live there is a bad patch of road on the inside. I was once approaching a cyclist to overtake when all of a sudden he pulled out. He actually reached the white line. It really annoyed me as it was quite dangerous but now I know to be aware that this may happen again.

I do think the proposed fines should be introduced. It's all about making the roads safer for all road users.

greenfrogs

Carawaystick wrote: »

You might have missed the last soccer world cup where players were knocked out and stayed playing after coming to. Or even if you just watched the final, the german keeper kicked an argentinian player in the head. Apparently this is not allowed as the german keeper got a free for the argentinian headbutting his foot, so at least fifa are trying their best to fix things

In fact I did miss it. Even though you have the names of the teams who reached the final I couldn't tell you who won.

Sheldons Brain

vicwatson wrote: »

Anyone else notice at the start of the report the white ford transit 141D parked on the footpath and double yellow lines? Whilst the report carried on about dodgy cyclists !! Lol.

Probably because the van wasn't moving, unlike the cyclists.

monument

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Probably because the van wasn't moving, unlike the cyclists.

Did the driver drive the van onto the footpath or was it a driverless van which teleported onto the footpath?

tomasrojo

greenfrogs wrote: »

In fact I did miss it. Even though you have the names of the teams who reached the final I couldn't tell you who won.

Heading the ball can cause concussion too. Don't think it's regarded as a major problem yet. Unlike in American Football.

Qualitymark

Did the Prime Time programme make any proposals on improving cycle lanes?

Tenzor07

Qualitymark wrote: »

Did the Prime Time programme make any proposals on improving cycle lanes?

You're expecting something useful, positive and constructive to come from this tabloid journal piece...!

Pointless ****e which seems to have sparked the imaginations of some of the less well educated on here, as they spout on about how to fix what they think the humble bicyclist should do in there crusade to get to work alive...

Expecting perfect adherence to the rules of the road whilst facing death by motorised vehicle... Well, Miriam herself should be out giving the bicyclist medals!

Falcon L

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Grandpa Hassan

Falcon L wrote: »

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Beasty

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Even if they can, it's illegal in Ireland to ride a bike on the road with no brakes. A fixie requires at least one additional brake on the front wheel

CramCycle

I didn't think it was that bad considering how "tabloid" it is but there were one or two issues. Calling it a "war" for example, jebus, every morning I see, wave, smile and acknowledge a variety of road users, if we are at war, no one sent them or myself the message.

Reinforcing the word minority, which alot of people don't realise.

Annoyed about the statistic of "doubling" deaths, no grasp of statistics.

The only thing they should have had in was the lack of education at a national and secondary school level. I am lucky that my path through life has given me loads of education into road use, I am surprised how much of it looking back is not second nature but learned.

seamus

Funny the bit at the start with the helmet footage and my wife was like, "That stupid ****ing bus driver", whereas I was thinking, "Everyone in that scenario was a moron". Two guys trying to overtake a bus on the left on a bend, and a bus driver just ploughing on through like nothing was happening.

On a lighter note, I was in last night's programme. Well, my left arm and helmet was, I spotted them filming during the week and it was only last night when I heard this was on that it clicked, "Oh ****, I hope I'm not in it"

The bit with the cycling Garda confirmed a theory of mine - if you are a traffic cop who's not in a car, you must become really numb to minor infringements, to the point that you don't even bother half the time. I mean, you literally cannot go 30 seconds in the city without seeing someone - ped, bike, car, van, bus, truck - doing something wrong. In that case, he has literally just finished having a chat with the cyclist, and some woman steps off the road out in front of him. And seems oblivious to what she's done wrong.

Doing that job must be the most frustrating thing in the world - so many lawbreakers, not enough time.

Falcon L

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Well, this just shows how ignorant you are about cycling. That courier with 'no brakes' would have been riding a fixie. They can stop on a dime.

Then why was he using his feet to stop.

Don't assume ignorance. I cycled fixed gear when I was younger. His rear cog looked like a free-wheeler to me.

NS77

tipparetops wrote: »

It is cyclists like you that do not get it.
How could someone be against a helmet and a Hi- Vis.
How could someone be against cyclists having insurance, considering bicycles come so close to cars,trucks,pedestrians.
These is no point a cyclist saying motorists do not get it, if they are dead or badly injured.

I have no problem with cyclists, but it is time for tough new rules regards who can take a push bike onto a road with heavy traffic.

Don't get me wrong - there are a significant minority of cyclists that are a danger to themselves and others, and should be punished accordingly.

However, advocating helmets, hi-viz., etc., is pretty much just victim blaming. The best way to improve cyclists safety? Improve driver behaviour!

Over the last two days (both as a driver and cyclist) I've witnessed crazy overtaking maneouvres by drivers passing cyclists

Monday while on my bike (while wearing hi-viz and a helmet):

• Large VW crafter and Audi speed by me with only inches to spare. Large van causes me to wobble, Audi close enough to hit my arm if I reached out
• Toyota Corrolla over takes me on blind corner & on the brow of a hill. Realises there's oncoming traffic mid-maneouvre and can only complete because the on coming hire-car slows to a stop
• Silver Ford Focus over takes me approaching bend. Realises they've miscalculated the their move and my speed. Pulls in on top of me to get onto the correct side of the road before bend ("Baby on board" sign dangling in the rear window)

Yesterday in the car:

• Black Audi overtakes inexperienced cyclist into my path almost causing a head-on collision. I brake, he squeezes by me and cyclist with inches to spare

There are sadly a few motorists that just don't get it. There are a few that don't get that we are humans - flesh and blood - going about our daily business, wanting to get home to our families, just like everyone else.

L'Enfer du Nord

tipparetops wrote: »

It is cyclists like you that do not get it.
How could someone be against a helmet and a Hi- Vis.
How could someone be against cyclists having insurance, considering bicycles come so close to cars,trucks,pedestrians.
These is no point a cyclist saying motorists do not get it, if they are dead or badly injured.

I have no problem with cyclists, but it is time for tough new rules regards who can take a push bike onto a road with heavy traffic.

Your language betrays you. If your suggestions are so reasonable why are they tough?

None of the suggestions you have come up with (safety equipment, insurance) are as clear cut as you seem to think. You accuses me of deflecting when I point out that existing rules in relation to obeying traffic laws should be enforced for a start. An other thing that should really be enforced more is lights on bikes after dark.

07Lapierre

Falcon L wrote: »

I think the cycle courier, in the following piece, represented cyclists well. Weaving in and out of other traffic,cycling dangerously with no regard for other road users and pointing out the faults of others. And all this with no brakes... not even one. How many other road users get away with this kind of behaviour?

There's a lot of 'well cars break lights too... ' and the like. How many cars or motorbikes are flying around with no brakes?

Comparing ALL cyclist to ONE cycle Courier is a bit like comparing ALL motorists to ONE Boy Racer or One "White Van Driver"...Pointless.

I thought he was a good example of a Cycle Courier...a bit cocky but then... I think you have to be to do that job.