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8th Amendment

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12357…65

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    #122
    am946745
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭am946745


    murpho999 wrote: »
    If you are ok with the morning after pill then what is your issue with abortion which is a similar thing in a different format at a later stage?

    I'm not ok with the morning after pill, and i am certainly not ok with killing a child. But the pill is in every pharmacy, and its no enough.

    The reality is that women don't want certain babies, that is why 70% of Downs children are aborted, they are not valued and treated equally.

    We need eqaulity for all children.

    In the US they opposed removing the right to abortion up to 40 weeks!!! Once you go down the path of abortion it has no ends, you even have some doctors proposing infanticide in certain cases.


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    #123
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    am946745 wrote: »
    I'm not ok with the morning after pill...

    There's a shock.


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    #124
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Don't think I'm being arrogant in giving a woman the right to decide her own destiny.

    You however are proposing that a child being brought up in a life of misery due to neglect is better than abortion.

    So who is arrogant?
    You say that as if in some way being mutilated by an abortionist is a viable alternative.

    Shocking.


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    #125
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    murpho999 wrote: »
    You mentioned them first. I never thought of them so thanks for that.

    They also do more that just abortions too you know but also a broad range of sexual health for both sexes.

    I hear they make exceedingly good coffee and their stationary is second to none.


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    #126
    deBop
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭deBop


    am946745 wrote: »
    We need eqaulity for all children.

    Since you're all for equality for children then I suppose you support reforming the education system so it's completely secular so each and every child is treated equally?


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    #127
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're not listening.

    Banning abortion in Ireland doesn't prevent Irish women from having abortions.

    You may not care about that; it may be important for you to cling to the pretence that banning abortions in Ireland is "protecting" anyone. It's not.

    Your entire argument is a lie. All your bolloxology about "cherishing" women by forcing them to travel abroad to terminate their pregnancy is, frankly, sickening in its hypocrisy. But then, sickening hypocrisy has been the constant companion of every tooth-and-nail battle conservatives have fought against any form of social progress.
    As if killing unborn babies is somehow equated to social progress.

    George Orwell how are ya.


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    #128
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You say that as if in some way being mutilated by an abortionist is a viable alternative.

    Shocking.

    Why are you using such dramatic and emotive language as mutilated when that is not what happens.

    The fact is you or I have no right to decide what a woman does with her own pregnancy that my not suit her circumstances.

    Like religion people should just stick to their own personal beliefs and let people make their own decisions.

    The pro life lobby always adopt the prohibitionist stance that has been shown not to work an causes major trauma for women all over Ireland but that's ok.


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    #129
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why are you using such dramatic and emotive language as mutilated when that is not what happens.

    The fact is you or I have no right to decide what a woman does with her own pregnancy that my not suit her circumstances.

    Like religion people should just stick to their own personal beliefs and let people make their own decisions.

    The pro life lobby always adopt the prohibitionist stance that has been shown not to work an causes major trauma for women all over Ireland but that's ok.

    So in essence your point about the child being neglected is not your driving reason. More important is the 'right' to choose.


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    #130
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,245 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    So in essence your point about the child being neglected is not your driving reason. More important is the 'right' to choose.

    So, we can count on your Yes on the day then?


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    #131
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    endacl wrote: »
    So, we can count on your Yes on the day then?

    Yes for the 8th to remain intact? But of course. :)


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    #132
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    So in essence your point about the child being neglected is not your driving reason. More important is the 'right' to choose.

    The right to choose is very important.

    The neglected child was an example of how having a child can have mean a life of perpetual misery both physically and emotionally for the child.
    I don't see how anybody would want that.


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    #133
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    murpho999 wrote: »
    The right to choose is very important.

    The neglected child was an example of how having a child can have mean a life of perpetual misery both physically and emotionally for the child.
    I don't see how anybody would want that.

    You're gas, insinuating I want a child to live in misery.

    But enough of that nonsense, the worrying factor is that you consider destroying an unborn baby in the womb as a justified alternative.


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    #134
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    You're gas, insinuating I want a child to live in misery.

    But enough of that nonsense, the worrying factor is that you consider destroying an unborn baby in the womb as a justified alternative.

    Yes, that what you are sentencing some children to with your policy.


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    #135
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    With our current system we just wait until they are more developed and hand over money to some foreign companies who profit from abortions. I guess some people view promoting a worse situation is ok as long as they can say no abortions in Ireland.

    Very few people appear to understand what happens during pregnancy, it's as if there are no negative affects for the woman.


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    #136
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,094 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I will be voting Labour in the next GE

    Was that a tough call for you Silvi - sorry, 'Black Menorca';)?


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    #137
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    So on the basis of this case you would delete the 8th? Just like that? Wow.

    I voted against the 8th amendment at the time. I will vote to remove it at the earliest opportunity, and every subsequent opportunity until it is gone or I am dead.


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    #138
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're not listening.

    Ah, abortion debate, how I have missed you.


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    #139
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Yes for the 8th to remain intact? But of course. :)

    Interesting.
    As a die hard anti-abortion voter I would like to remove the 8th. As Mary Robinson said when it was introduced, it's bad law.

    However I don't think I could do anything but vote to keep it - as if it's removed then the floodgates will open.


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    #140
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    if it's removed then the floodgates will open.

    Yes, we'll be on the slippery slope into the jaws of a dilemma without a paddle!


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    #141
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Interesting.
    As a die hard anti-abortion voter I would like to remove the 8th. As Mary Robinson said when it was introduced, it's bad law.

    However I don't think I could do anything but vote to keep it - as if it's removed then the floodgates will open.

    Except the floodgates are already open - to the United Kingdom. Legal abortion, recognized in Irish law for Irish women.

    What you mean is, if it's removed, then perhaps the pretence that Irish women don't have abortions will end. That's the most that could happen.


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    #142
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, we'll be on the slippery slope into the jaws of a dilemma without a paddle!
    volchitsa wrote: »
    Except the floodgates are already open - to the United Kingdom. Legal abortion, recognized in Irish law for Irish women.

    What you mean is, if it's removed, then perhaps the pretence that Irish women don't have abortions will end. That's the most that could happen.

    No, what I mean is if its more easily available at less cost and inconvenience then more will happen.
    The floodgates are not open, there's a trickle of unmentionables at best going to the UK.


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    #143
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    No, what I mean is if its more easily available at less cost and inconvenience then more will happen.
    The floodgates are not open, there's a trickle of unmentionables at best going to the UK.
    This is probably one of the most ignorant things I have ever read.

    From this statement, I'm guessing you're a male in your 40s+, from the backwater country and have very little knowledge of female anatomy.

    Why do I say this? Because anyone that propagates the idea that (and let's face it, you're beating around the bush but you're getting there) abortions are or would be used more frequently as a form of "contraception" is ignorant of the process. I'm not equipped with the requisite genitalia to have an abortion but trust me when I tell you that I have personal experience at the side of a friend in the UK who had an abortion and it is not something physically or psychologically that one would want to do ever.


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    #144
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    So because I am morally opposed to killing unborn children (or viable children), then I am ignorant?
    What a great world of equality we live in..... NOT


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    #145
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    So because I am morally opposed to killing unborn children (or viable children), then I am ignorant?
    What a great world of equality we live in..... NOT
    Re-read what I wrote. Your statement that cheaper and more available abortions will result in there being more occurring is just shy of coming out to say that it will be used as a form of contraception. The statement by itself is ignorant and the implication therein is even more so.

    I would also respectfully suggest that you look up the word "ignorant" as I don't think it means what you think it means.


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    #146
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    No, what I mean is if its more easily available at less cost and inconvenience then more will happen.
    The floodgates are not open, there's a trickle of unmentionables at best going to the UK.

    Per UK government figures, between 1980 and 2013, at least 158,252 women living in Ireland travelled to England and Wales to access safe abortion services. Roughly 5000 a year. This is a low estimate, since people can give a UK address, and then won't be recorded.

    5000 per year, about 2.2 million women, so our abortion rate is something like 2 per 1000, vs. a UK figure of about 8.

    So our figure is lower than the UKs, but not "a trickle".

    The only people prevented from travelling are the very poor who can't afford a UK "city break", women in institutions like mental hospitals and prisons, and people like that poor unfortunate rape victim with bad visa status.

    But hey, feck them, right? As long as we can pretend to be Holy Ireland with none of that happening under our roof, it's all good!


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    #147
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Re-read what I wrote. Your statement that cheaper and more available abortions will result in there being more occurring is just shy of coming out to say that it will be used as a form of contraception. The statement by itself is ignorant and the implication therein is even more so.

    I would also respectfully suggest that you look up the word "ignorant" as I don't think it means what you think it means.

    So therefore I am ignorant of the word ignorant, in addition to you being ignorant of the point I was making?

    As a pro-life christian, anything that prevents even one harmless child from being killed is a positive in my eyes.


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    #148
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,245 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    So because I am morally opposed to killing unborn children (or viable children), then I am ignorant?
    What a great world of equality we live in..... NOT

    Location: Roscommon.

    Ah. Makes sense. S'ok. You'll lose this one too. :)

    Maybe Roscommon could secede? You could still cross the border to do your shopping, but keep your minorities and women oppressed in your own state? Of course, we'd be obliged to extend citizenship to anybody who wanted to leave. We'd send you our bigots and misogynists though. You wouldn't be lonely, and sure you'd have all the sheep to yourself in the meantime. You can have john Waters back an' all.


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    #149
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Per UK government figures, between 1980 and 2013, at least 158,252 women living in Ireland travelled to England and Wales to access safe abortion services. Roughly 5000 a year. This is a low estimate, since people can give a UK address, and then won't be recorded.

    5000 per year, about 2.2 million women, so our abortion rate is something like 2 per 1000, vs. a UK figure of about 8.

    So our figure is lower than the UKs, but not "a trickle".
    And of course you need to factor in the women ordering abortion pills online, (with no medical care at all, necessarily) and those who go outside the UK - I believe Spain and the Netherlands are frequent destinations.

    The 2 per thousand is probably nowhere near the total.

    But sure that's grand, as long as the fundies can keep their own fictional world intact in their own minds. Who cares about actual abortions, when we can rub our hands and congratulate ourselves that we've ensured that the world is still flat.

    PS who's Silvi?


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    #150
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    So because I am morally opposed to killing unborn children (or viable children), then I am ignorant?
    What a great world of equality we live in..... NOT


    You may not be ignorant but you are a misogynist of the worst kind.


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    #151
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Godge wrote: »
    You may not be ignorant but you are a misogynist of the worst kind.

    Is that what we call it now?
    Misogynist?
    In my day we called it defending the right to life. I voiced my concerns in the last abortion referendum and although I was just too young to vote, I know that most of my then immediate family were also no voters. Unfortunately we don't all come from such a good moral background it seems.


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