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8th Amendment

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13567…65

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    #62
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    inocybe wrote: »
    Sorry to burst your bubble, Ireland is most certainly not abortion free. Denying the reality of the need for a safe service won't make it go away.

    We can engage in semantics if you like.

    The facts are abortion is a serious crime in this country and the 8th still provides protection to unborn babies.


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    #63
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    fits wrote: »
    I will vote labour if they make this referendum happen.
    A personal contact had to travel to abort a much wanted but fatally abnormal foetus. There is no way she could have carried to term. They brought foetus home in boot of car to bury. Current system is absolutely cruel and heartless.
    These decisions should be between woman, partner and doctors and noone else.
    If the option was to allow abortion where the child won't survive, mothers life is in immediate danger , or the mother was rapped or is below a certain age I would vote yes.

    If the option was to allow abortion in general I'd vite no


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    #64
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    ted1 wrote: »
    If the option was to allow abortion where the child won't survive, mothers life is in immediate danger , or the mother was rapped or is below a certain age I would vote yes.

    If the option was to allow abortion in general I'd vite no

    There's the thing. Removing the 8th will remove the status and protection for unborn babies in this country. Then, with the introduction of limited legislation, its only a matter of time before we become as liberal as the UK.

    Sure as night follows day.


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    #65
    inocybe
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    We can engage in semantics if you like.

    The facts are abortion is a serious crime in this country and the 8th still provides protection to unborn babies.

    So you'd like to jail women who take the abortion pill then?
    What about women who try a dangerous herbal remedy, legally available to buy?
    What about women who smoke and drink to excess hoping to cause an early miscarriage because she doesn't have 1000 euro to pay for a safe abortion?
    Where exactly does that crime begin and end?


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    #66
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    inocybe wrote: »
    So you'd like to jail women who take the abortion pill then?
    What about women who try a dangerous herbal remedy, legally available to buy?
    What about women who smoke and drink to excess hoping to cause an early miscarriage because she doesn't have 1000 euro to pay for a safe abortion?
    Where exactly does that crime begin and end?


    Who sad anything about jailing anyone?

    Ireland has made a choice to protect unborn life. I am proud of that and will continue to advocate for such a status, despite the abortion regimes in other countries.


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    #67
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,299 ✭✭✭✭fits


    If the option was to allow abortion where the child won't survive, mothers life is in immediate danger , or the mother was rapped or is below a certain age I would vote yes.

    If the option was to allow abortion in general I'd vite no

    I dont think its going to be that simple in reality though. Eight amendment has to be removed first, and then replaced with some sort of legislation.

    To be quite honest and forthright, I am for abortion on demand below 10-12 weeks, I just think there are too many grey areas to legislate for. But if the majority of the public agree with those restrictions being put in the place, well we are a democracy, and that is fair enough. Retaining the eighth amendment without a referendum would be completely undemocratic in my view. It barely passed in 1983, and definitely should not be there now.


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    #68
    inocybe
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    We can engage in semantics if you like.

    The facts are abortion is a serious crime in this country and the 8th still provides protection to unborn babies.

    don't you want to jail people who commit serious crimes?


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    #69
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,261 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Should we re-visit the divorce decision every 20 years also? Lisbon, Childrens' rights, the Right to Travel etc?

    Nah. Just get rid of it, and let each adult faced with that difficult decision make their own mind up according to their own circumstances, personal beliefs, and conscience. If somebody I don't know and will never meet wants a termination, it's none of my business.


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    #70
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    fits wrote: »
    I dont think its going to be that simple in reality though. Eight amendment has to be removed first, and then replaced with some sort of legislation.

    To be quite honest and forthright, I am for abortion on demand below 10-12 weeks, I just think there are too many grey areas to legislate for. But if the majority of the public agree with those restrictions being put in the place, well we are a democracy, and that is fair enough. Retaining the eighth amendment without a referendum would be completely undemocratic in my view. It barely passed in 1983, and definitely should not be there now.

    67% voted for the 8th.


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    #71
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    inocybe wrote: »
    don't you want to jail people who commit serious crimes?

    I don't see jailing a mother would do any good whatsoever to be honest. Maybe you do.


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    #72
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    67% voted for the 8th.

    None of whom now face the issue on the most personal and direct manner today.


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    #73
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    P_1 wrote: »
    None of whom now face the issue on the most personal and direct manner today.

    I'm just clarifying up the confused opinion that the 8th was barely passed in 1983.


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    #74
    inocybe
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭inocybe


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I don't see jailing a mother would do any good whatsoever to be honest. Maybe you do.

    Because it's not a crime!


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    #75
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    inocybe wrote: »
    Because it's not a crime!

    Do I have to quote the X Case legislation for you?


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    #76
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Do I have to quote the X Case legislation for you?

    Thankfully it's one that a blind eye is throw towards. It's happening now, legislate for it so people can go through a traumatic event in as much comfort as possible.


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    #77
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Next year or 2017 hopefully. And it should be repealed of course.


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    #78
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    P_1 wrote: »
    Thankfully it's one that a blind eye is throw towards. It's happening now, legislate for it so people can go through a traumatic event in as much comfort as possible.

    What blind eye?

    Lets be honest and accurate here folks.

    Abortion is a crime in this country, and to my knowledge not one unborn baby has been intentionally killed in the womb since the passing of X legislation last year.


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    #79
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Abortion on demand is a misleading term.
    In most countries where abortion is legal, on-demand is only possible to around the 12th week of pregnancy during the embryonic stage. Calling embryos children is emotive and plain wrong. And the vast majority of abortions occur much sooner.

    Unfortunately I don't think the legislation will even be that brave after the amendment is repealed.


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    #80
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    The facts are abortion is a serious crime in this country and the 8th still provides protection to unborn babies.

    Again, no. Abortion was a serious crime here, until the 8th amendment made our anti-abortion law unconstitutional.

    And it only protects "babies" whose mothers are poor, or in an institution, or have dodgy visa status.

    Ordinary voting middle class folks just take a "city break", and that's that, which is the reason this ridiculous charade has gone on for so long.


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    #81
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    inocybe wrote: »
    Because it's not a crime!

    Not only is it not a crime, we passed an amendment guaranteeing access to abortion information and another guaranteeing that the state would not interfere with travel for abortions.

    We like abortion just fine, as long as it happens under someone else's roof .


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    #82
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    OK lads and lasses. If you're going to debate the issue, at least do so knowing the basics.

    Intentional taking of unborn life is a crime in this country. A fact clarified in last years X Case legislation.

    Destruction of unborn human life
    22.
    (1) It shall be an offence to intentionally destroy unborn human life.

    (2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years, or both.


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    #83
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    'unborn human life' is such a weird expression


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    #84
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Icepick wrote: »
    'unborn human life' is such a weird expression

    I prefer unborn baby myself.

    But the legislation is crystal clear.


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    #85
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,094 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    But the legislation is crystal clear.

    Except it's not is it? As the family of the young woman who so tragically died late last year discovered to their cost.


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    #86
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Except it's not is it? As the family of the young woman who so tragically died late last year discovered to their cost.

    What are you referring to?


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    #87
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    What are you referring to?

    The woman who was kept on life support despite being in a state of decomposition due to the fact that she was in the early stages of pregnancy I'd imagine


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    #88
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    P_1 wrote: »
    The woman who was kept on life support despite being in a state of decomposition due to the fact that she was in the early stages of pregnancy I'd imagine

    Tragic case indeed.

    A proper decision was made to turn off life support to the mother.


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    #89
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Tragic case indeed.

    A proper decision was made to turn off life support to the mother.

    One that would have been made a lot quicker and made an awful situation easier for all concerned if it weren't for the omnishambles of a law that our politicians are too spineless to allow us to have a vote on


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    #90
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    P_1 wrote: »
    One that would have been made a lot quicker and made an awful situation easier for all concerned if it weren't for the omnishambles of a law that our politicians are too spineless to allow us to have a vote on

    So on the basis of this case you would delete the 8th? Just like that? Wow.


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    #91
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    So on the basis of this case you would delete the 8th? Just like that? Wow.

    Ever heard of the phrase involving camels, straws and damaged vertebrae?


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