Equality of marriage and love

W123-80's

SW wrote: »

One priest seemingly decided to attempt to shame Yes voters during a mass.

https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605726014048731136
https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605727362249031680

More power to him.
Need a few more morons like this to pull these types of stunts..

Hotblack Desiato

The real question is why these people were there in the first place, and how many of them will trudge in like sheep next week?

aunt aggie

Hoagy wrote: »

Here's the story.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ballina-priest-2139351-Jun2015/

Saw this story earlier and it really annoyed me. BUT reading through some of the more recent comments under the story it seems that people who were there don't agree with the Journal's one and only source. Something a bit off about this...

Links234

Holy ****, do I get to be proud of my country twice in a row? I could get used to this!

http://www.thejournal.ie/trans-rights-ireland-gender-recognition-self-declaration-2141181-Jun2015/

Bannasidhe

Links234 wrote: »

Holy ****, do I get to be proud of my country twice in a row? I could get used to this!

http://www.thejournal.ie/trans-rights-ireland-gender-recognition-self-declaration-2141181-Jun2015/

All this pride is making me feel very discombobulated.

Links234

Seriously not looking forward to what Iona and buddies have to say on the matter though, you know we'll be the next targets for them

Penn

Links234 wrote: »

Seriously not looking forward to what Iona and buddies have to say on the matter though, you know we'll be the next targets for them

I can imagine David Quinn trying to get Paddy Manning into one of Breda O'Brien's dresses because they need a token "As a transgendered person, I oppose this"

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

All this pride is making me feel very discombobulated.

See?!? They were right!!

Vote Yes, and our bobbles will be taken away!!

:mad:

Vivisectus

Links234 wrote: »

Seriously not looking forward to what Iona and buddies have to say on the matter though, you know we'll be the next targets for them

If they stay nice and quiet, keep their head down, and agree to be patronized silly while agreeing that they should not be given equal rights Iona loves the transgendered I am sure!

The Black Oil

robindch wrote: »

Oklahoma's lower house passes a bill restricting marriage to religious people. Next up is consideration by the upper house and if passed, and signed into law, presumably atheists, agnostics and other non-traditionals can presumably sod off and get married somewhere else:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/03/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-restricting-marriage-to-people-of-faith/

How would that work, exactly? How do you determine someone's religiousity is of sufficient quality to allow them to get married?

Republican supporters of the legislation want to remove the state from the marriage process. Rep. Dennis Johnson, a Republican, said: Marriage was not instituted by government. It was instituted by God. There is no reason for Oklahoma or any state to be involved in marriage.

God speaks through you, then, Dennis...

I'm not sure if the bill linked to on patheos is the final version as it contains a good bit of strikethrough text. The font wrecks my head.

Going Strong

More green ink madness in the letters section of today's Irish examiner.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/there-is-a-need-for-us-to-protect-gods-law-334504.html

Not a NSA agent

Going Strong wrote: »

More green ink madness in the letters section of today's Irish examiner.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/there-is-a-need-for-us-to-protect-gods-law-334504.html

Consequences! Consequences everywhere! No idea what they are but they probably exist in some form.

Going Strong

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Consequences! Consequences everywhere! No idea what they are but they probably exist in some form.

Yes indeed. They could happen in ten minutes time, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year or next century but happen they will. Back to the pews lads and lassies and pray extra hard, give the church your hard-earned and stop all this thinking for yourselves nonsense or doom is a-comin' your way.

I'm terrified now.

realdanbreen

Going Strong wrote: »

I'm terrified now.

Not sure if you are terrified but you certainly seem obsessed with religion and God. Lighten up man and enjoy your life.

Cabaal

Great, Kilkenny in the news....and not for a good reason...sigh

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/legal-bids-to-challenge-same-sex-marriage-result-due-1.2237552

Two separate applications for leave to bring petitions challenging the result of the referendum clearing the way for same-sex marriage here will come before the High Court on Friday.

One challenge has been initiated by Gerry Walshe, an electrician, from Lisdeen Road, Co Clare, while the second is brought by Maurice J Lyons, a gardener, with an address at Callan, Co Kilkenny.

Little bit of googling brings up this http://www.politicalworld.org/archive/index.php/t-3269.html

Apparently in defence of marriage and family life, Maurice Lyons from Kilkenny has been imprisoned in Midlands Prison, Portlaoise since 2/07/09. He refused to accept a separation order. Technically he is in contempt of court for not acknowledging a judicial order of separation, granted to his wife and him although he never requested it. As an apparently devout Catholic, Maurice has never desired or agreed to a separation and believes that the State has not made a serious effort to bring about a reconciliation in his family - something that Irish law mandates before a divorce or separation is considered - and so the State is acting illegally, as well as against God's law.

The National Men's Council of Ireland are pursuing this case on Maurice's behalf.

Background here (http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=462) and here (http://rationshed.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/ireland-mr-lyons-was-yesterday-committed-to-life-imprisonment-for-his-unfailing-support-of-his-family-and-his-faith-family-conference-flyer/)

The National Men's Council seems to be a right-wing Catholic pressure group shamelessly using the aftermath of Maurice's marriage breakup to promote their brand of Catholicism - LINK (http://www.family-men.com/)

wordpress link is broken, this works though https://rationshed.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/ireland-mr-lyons-was-yesterday-committed-to-life-imprisonment-for-his-unfailing-support-of-his-family-and-his-faith-family-conference-flyer/

All very odd, Surely if a persons wanted to remain married in the eye's of god then by all means they can think what they want (sure after all its effectively meaningless). But a women has every right in the world to not be married if she doesn't want to be.

SpaceTime

Worrying to be honest that these groups think they've a right to overturn a democratic referendum with a substantial majority and a high turnout based purely on dogma.

If it were overturned the likely result would be a rerun and probably an even higher majority in favour anyway.

I find the notion that the courts are involved in this at all is a bit weird and sort of quite repugnant to the idea that we have a democracy at all in some ways.

The referendum was incredibly balanced in terms of media coverage rules etc etc what more do they want?

It highlights how dangerous it is mixing religion and constitutional law though in any way. I mean one of the arguments being put forward there as a reason for blocking this is effectively saying that Ireland is a theocracy!

If it were to be accepted as a valid point, we might as well jack in all pretence that we were either a republic or a democracy as it would be basically admitting that power came from a religious source not the people.

Cabaal

SpaceTime wrote: »

The referendum was incredibly balanced in terms of media coverage rules etc etc what more do they want?

I would have thought the answer to that is simple.
They want marriage to be between a male and female, they want them to have kids, raise them as Catholics and go to mass every week.

Basically, they want Ireland 1950's style. Anything else and they won't accept it.

SpaceTime

Cabaal wrote: »

I would have thought the answer to that is simple.
They want marriage to be between a male and female, they want them to have kids, raise them as Catholics and go to mass every week.

Basically, they want Ireland 1950's style. Anything else and they won't accept it.

Short of investing in R&D for a time machine or moving to some theocratic backwater, that's not going to happen.

PopePalpatine

SpaceTime wrote: »

Short of investing in R&D for a time machine or moving to some theocratic backwater, that's not going to happen.

Or building a theocratic backwater of their own.

Cabaal

SpaceTime wrote: »

Short of investing in R&D for a time machine or moving to some theocratic backwater, that's not going to happen.

True,
But they are like a dieing animal, trashing like crazy right now. They are at their most dangerous so they will fight tooth and nail against any change.

Remember this whole experience most be scaring the ****e out of the ultra religious, they went from 90% compliance (mass attendance) to 30% in the space of 30-40 years.

Along with that, people have stopped listening to them and they are no longer trusted because of the rape and selling of children the organisation allowed.

Yet of course they will still claim they have the moral highground,
:rolleyes:

efb

Referenda results are always challenged. Usually some nut with an axe to grind

Pherekydes

I love the guy who won't recognise the court in the case of his own separation applying to the court to overturn the result of a referendum.

SpaceTime

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Or building a theocratic backwater of their own.

Does it come with free pizza??

efb

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Or building a theocratic backwater of their own.

anyone thinking of the Fr Ted episode where the nuns sing on hold

Shrap

Cabaal wrote: »

Great, Kilkenny in the news....and not for a good reason...sigh

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/legal-bids-to-challenge-same-sex-marriage-result-due-1.2237552

Clare too, but I'm actually delighted with this one:

One challenge has been initiated by Gerry Walshe, an electrician, from Lisdeen Road, Co Clare, while the second is brought by Maurice J Lyons, a gardener, with an address at Callan, Co Kilkenny.
‘Not fair or impartial’
It is understood the grounds of Mr Walshe’s challenge, brought against Ireland and the Attorney General, the referendum returning officer and the Referendum Commission, include a claim that the referendum process was not fair or impartial in relation to monies spent.

Excellent. How are they going to prove that then, with the distinct and consistent lack of transparency from the No campaign? Are they going to be having to find out exactly where Iona's funding has come from at last? Will the few hundred Grannies please stand up and explain how you afforded all those posters and Youtube ads for MFM?

This is exciting actually. I can see this going BADLY wrong for the applicants as they try in vain not to disclose the No campaign's obvious money bags.

Hotblack Desiato

Going Strong wrote: »

More green ink madness in the letters section of today's Irish examiner.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/there-is-a-need-for-us-to-protect-gods-law-334504.html

Suppose same-sex marriage is not compatible with God’s law?
Will its insertion into the constitution be a catastrophe for the country and will we all suffer the consequences?

Foreplay and a bit of lube and it'll insert just fine love.

Nodin

Cabaal wrote: »

.................... But a women has every right in the world to not be married if she doesn't want to be.

Enough of that talk, ye big hairy hippy liberal ye.

Shrap

I happen to have a spy inside the court today. Judge is particularly unimpressed with the wang of BS and the playing for more time off of Walshe (up first, Lyons up later). Both are self-representing, no counsel, but both are being advised (used, perhaps) by someone my friend describes as a sinister chap. Through my mad sleuthing abilities, we have since identified him as one Robert Eldridge, Executive Director, Institute of Family and Marriage - "Doing what men have always done … protecting their Families, Faith and Freedom from attack by Big Business and Big Government".

Some recognised No campaigners down the back, and I quote "Lots of bright young things with holy medals and thousand yard stares", but none of the usual suspects.

I think the referendum is entirely safe.

Shrap

efb wrote: »

Usually some nut with an axe to grind

Two nuts, but it seems you're bang on. So far, no case.

SpaceTime

Can't really see this going very far.

I just wish they'd hurry up though! I've at least two gay weddings to go to in 2016...