Equality of marriage and love

Going Strong

Merces wrote: »

That won't happen. Fianna Fail are smart enough to know that the majority of the No vote came from the older generation and they are not going to be around forever and their ranks won't be replenished as every generation becomes more liberal.

Oh I know. I'd like to think it's more a case of Quinn knowing that the referendum result has shown up the "Emperor's New Clothes" of Iona et al. So, now he's desperate to hitch his wagon to some other organisation in an attempt to make Iona and himself of course, look like they're somehow relevant.

A GE next year and Labour making noises about the 8th amendment means that there's a load of 'balanced' airtime that Dave and his self-regarding friends could be filling up.

volchitsa

I am still amused that you only ever do seem to see the posts that you want to reply to all the same

(FTFY - though I didn't reply to it, I commented on it, which as you pointed out below is not quite the same thing)

But since my comment was not actually on the cartoon, it was on Cabaals comment on Links234 cartoon, should I not engage with the comment just because the cartoon fits your narrative?

But you didn't engage with it, you misrepresented it completely. It was specifically about the cartoon and what that told us about what has apparently become a widespread view of the Catholic Church, not just in Ireland but in other countries too.

Your attempt at dismissing it is transparent and tbh, silly. If you want to believe I couldn't reply to your actual post if I thought it worth doing, knock yourself out.

Still never let a discussion get in the way of what looks like a good line, especially when it looks like you can go after the poster rather than the post again, eh Volchitsa?

Whereas you are doing what there?

I was pointing out the problem with the content of your post. It misrepresents the post it pretends to reply to. I can't help it if it's your habitual posting style - only you can do something about that.

Turtwig

Mod:

Mentioning you have a poster on your ignore list. Is a no no. Further continuing to take a few swipes at that poster is an even bigger no no. This and your subsequent post are unacceptable. Should it continue the mod team may have no choice but to pull the cards out of rob's drawer.

volchitsa wrote: »

I think I may just have to take Absolam off my ignore list - not to bother trying to engage, but just so I can read some of his gems, as the comedy value is just too good to pass up on!

As a comment on a German cartoon about child sex abuse by catholic priests, the intellectual effort shown here by Absolam in managing (deliberately I presume) to completely miss the point is truly awesome!

(FYI, all posts are visible when reading the site while not logged in, which is how I saw this one.)

realdanbreen

Turtwig wrote: »

Mod:

Mentioning you have a poster on your ignore list. Is a no no. Further continuing to take a few swipes at that poster is an even bigger no no. This and your subsequent post are unacceptable. Should it continue the mod team may have no choice but to pull the cards out of rob's drawer.

Is Rob on a day off? If he is gone to get a bit of fresh air and away from that industrial blue carpet then I don't blame him.

volchitsa

Turtwig wrote: »

Mod:

Mentioning you have a poster on your ignore list. Is a no no. Further continuing to take a few swipes at that poster is an even bigger no no. This and your subsequent post are unacceptable. Should it continue the mod team may have no choice but to pull the cards out of rob's drawer.

Ok, sorry. Genuinely didn't know it wasn't allowed, as I've seen others do it before. I won't do it again.

Turtwig

realdanbreen wrote: »

Is Rob on a day off? If he is gone to get a bit of fresh air and away from that industrial blue carpet then I don't blame him.

If you have a crush on Rob - which appears somewhat plausible - might I suggest asking less nosy stalker type questions? It is a little bit creepy.

Shrap

Turtwig wrote: »

Mod:

Mentioning you have a poster on your ignore list. Is a no no. Further continuing to take a few swipes at that poster is an even bigger no no. This and your subsequent post are unacceptable. Should it continue the mod team may have no choice but to pull the cards out of rob's drawer.

Sorry too, as I joined in. Also apologies to Absolam - that wasn't nice of me

Absolam

volchitsa wrote: »

(FTFY - though I didn't reply to it, I commented on it, which as you pointed out below is not quite the same thing)

Did you not want to reply to it? You can say so, I don't mind.

volchitsa wrote: »

But you didn't engage with it, you misrepresented it completely. It was specifically about the cartoon and what that told us about what has apparently become a widespread view of the Catholic Church, not just in Ireland but in other countries too.

How exactly was it misrepresented? It was quoted in full, so it was hardly that, and I didn't try to ascribe any meaning to it, so it wasn't that. Pointing out that another statement might be more accurate only make a representation as to the accuracy of the statement, and I'm afraid I have to stand over that, I think my statement might actually be more accurate.

volchitsa wrote: »

Your attempt at dismissing it is transparent and tbh, silly. If you want to believe I couldn't reply to your actual post if I thought it worth doing, knock yourself out.

It is? Oh dear.

volchitsa wrote: »

Whereas you are doing what there?

Pointing out what you did in your post that I quoted?

volchitsa wrote: »

I was pointing out the problem with the content of your post. It misrepresents the post it pretends to reply to. I can't help it if it's your habitual posting style - only you can do something about that.

You did say that twice, but you seem a little reticent to point out what is being misrepresented?

realdanbreen

Turtwig wrote: »

If you have a crush on Rob - which appears somewhat plausible - might I suggest asking less nosy stalker type questions? It is a little bit creepy.

I'm sure Rob is a nice chap but I don't think we have much in common, thank God.

robindch

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm sure Rob is a nice chap but I don't think we have much in common, thank God.

Not an especially helpful comment to pass about somebody you've never knowingly met.

*sheesh*

The Black Oil

Nodin wrote: »

Comedy time with Breda

The full whinge
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/breda-o-brien-an-inconvenient-truth-about-the-same-sex-marriage-referendum-1.2224422

I expect they're sick of marriage equality letters at this point. I sent this to the editor.

Sir,

A key reason the no campaign was unsuccessful was that it had virtually nothing positive to say. Breda O' Brien's column of May 25th is more evidence of same. Perhaps, to paraphrase a late sports broadcaster, she might leave it there so.

Yours, etc

SpaceTime

Simple democratic reality of this is it's a yes/no referendum. The Yes side one by quite a substantial majority and with a high turn out.

There's huge mandate for not only gay marriage but also a bright, friendly signal that the GLBT community is more than welcome to be fully part of Irish society.

I'm getting a bit fed up with this looking for the 'no' side to be accommodated thing. That's not how simple yes/no referenda work.

Do we hear Breda and the lads clamouring to ensure that the pro-choice side of the abortion debate get accommodated? Not a hope of them ever doing that!

Anyway, the next time I hear about the topic of gay marriage, I will hopefully be drunk and partying at someone's wedding!

robindch

Oklahoma's lower house passes a bill restricting marriage to religious people. Next up is consideration by the upper house and if passed, and signed into law, presumably atheists, agnostics and other non-traditionals can presumably sod off and get married somewhere else:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/03/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-restricting-marriage-to-people-of-faith/

JaseBelleVie

And we thought Texas was bad. Sweet Jesus.

I always have a great deal of pity and sympathy for any "normal" people (see: Democrat voters, atheists/agnostics, educated people) who live in the Bible Belt/Southern States of the USA. They must feel so frustrated living in such a Conservative Christian area, and equally, they probably feel the need to explain that they are not loopers every time they leave the State to go to Satan's States (ie. anywhere outside the South).

Hotblack Desiato

The US Supreme Court really shoud have some sort of fast-track process to initiate cases to strike down crap like that as soon as it's signed. I wouldn't see any need for the hearing to last more than five minutes.

BlaasForRafa

The Black Oil wrote: »

I expect they're sick of marriage equality letters at this point. I sent this to the editor.

You're a better person than I am, I'd have just written "Hey Breda, you lost, nah nah nah nah nah!"

Reading Breda's various columns and statements, she seems absolutely obsessed with gay sex and sperm. I was trying to think of a joke about why she was so butthurt but my mind just wouldn't go there.

looksee

Ok, I am doing an in-depth survey and making deductions from my observations (of a few roads around where I live). All the yes vote signs have been taken down. There are numerous No votes signs still hanging from lampposts. Does this mean that No-voters have a very short attention span? Does it mean they are hoping to still convince people that 'a child is forever' or whatever the signs say? Are they too dis-spirited to be bothered? Do they know that, unlike political parties, they can't be identified and held responsible for littering (can they?)?

silverharp

looksee wrote: »

Ok, I am doing an in-depth survey and making deductions from my observations (of a few roads around where I live). All the yes vote signs have been taken down. There are numerous No votes signs still hanging from lampposts. Does this mean that No-voters have a very short attention span? Does it mean they are hoping to still convince people that 'a child is forever' or whatever the signs say? Are they too dis-spirited to be bothered? Do they know that, unlike political parties, they can't be identified and held responsible for littering (can they?)?

they are waiting for the Yes side to continue what they were doing during the campaign :pac:

galljga1

silverharp wrote: »

they are waiting for the Yes side to continue what they were doing during the campaign :pac:

Clarifying that the bullcrap from the no side was exactly that? Yes, we are still doing that.

PopePalpatine

Maybe Waterford Whispers News got it right? http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/05/28/defiant-no-side-leave-campaign-posters-up-in-desperation/

Going Strong

looksee wrote: »

Ok, I am doing an in-depth survey and making deductions from my observations (of a few roads around where I live). All the yes vote signs have been taken down. There are numerous No votes signs still hanging from lampposts. Does this mean that No-voters have a very short attention span? Does it mean they are hoping to still convince people that 'a child is forever' or whatever the signs say? Are they too dis-spirited to be bothered? Do they know that, unlike political parties, they can't be identified and held responsible for littering (can they?)?

Possibly because they used a third party to do a lot of the posters and leaflet campaign so have no idea where the posters were put up.

looksee

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Maybe Waterford Whispers News got it right? http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/05/28/defiant-no-side-leave-campaign-posters-up-in-desperation/

Ha! I hadn't seen that, is this only in Waterford I wonder?

Going Strong

Had a read of The Sunday Times at my parents. Six letters about the referendum and all "No". Each one a masterpiece of whining along the same lines we've been hearing all week. "Gay meejah hoors hijacked the media", "Won't someone *please* think of us bigots", "We haven't gone away you know - watch your backs at the next election", "I don't care if the referendum wasn't about surrogacy - I say it was, "Why oh why couldn't they have been happy with civil partnership? They've ruined marriage as an institution", "I'm still going to call them child-abusing perverts and you can't stop me."

Passed two "No" posters still up. Well, half up, it looked like someone was taking them down as they were quite low on the pole but then gave up half way through. Maybe it was The Rapture? And there's me worried about Gay Tornadoes.

Not a NSA agent

looksee wrote: »

Ok, I am doing an in-depth survey and making deductions from my observations (of a few roads around where I live). All the yes vote signs have been taken down. There are numerous No votes signs still hanging from lampposts. Does this mean that No-voters have a very short attention span? Does it mean they are hoping to still convince people that 'a child is forever' or whatever the signs say? Are they too dis-spirited to be bothered? Do they know that, unlike political parties, they can't be identified and held responsible for littering (can they?)?

Short attention span? I doubt it, they wont let it go. Constantly finding something to complain about. A no voter fell down the stairs, they were probably built by a yes voter.

SpaceTime

I guess part of the problem with a referendum campaign is that if you poster the place and had volunteers and then your side loses, then the voluntary support probably melts away.

I really don't see any huge evidence of a very hard fundamentalist no vote here. There's definitely a bit, but I don't think it's most of the no voters that I've encountered anyway. I'd say quite a few people may have been a bit taken aback by the result and also by the emotional outpouring that happened when it was called too.

It was pretty mind-blowing last week. I don't think I've ever experienced anything quite like the raw emotions that came flowing out of a lot of people when that was won.

I'd suspect that some of the softer no campaigners are probably seeing a side of Ireland they may not have ever experienced before and perhaps that's why there isn't a huge amount of people going around doing the No side clean up.

It's also probably quite difficult to get out there and remove posters after you've lost a campaign.

It's been an interesting few weeks though.

Effectively you'd the Yes side appealing to people's humanity, talking about the importance of connections, love, family and asking people for their solidarity.

Meanwhile the No side was basically arguing pure dogma, loosely connected parallel issues and convoluted hypothetical legal scenarios...

One's actually a hell of a lot more powerful than the other and I just think perhaps there's a little bit of an element of being suddenly caught on the wrong side of the fence for a lot of the softer elements of the no campaign who may have been genuinely fearful about things that were just there to muddy the water and nothing else.

It's an odd referendum as it was always going to be paradigm shifting and it has been.

They'd want to get a move on though as if those posters don't come down, councils will begin to issue fines against whatever organisations' names are printed on the end. It happens to election candidates every time...

Posters must be gone with in 7 days of polling.
It can turn out very expensive as a local authority could just fine them €150 on the spot per poster.

K4t

silverharp wrote: »

they are waiting for the Yes side to continue what they were doing during the campaign :pac:

They're awaiting ascension to poster heaven.

Delirium

One priest seemingly decided to attempt to shame Yes voters during a mass.

https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605726014048731136
https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605727362249031680

Pherekydes

SW wrote: »

One priest seemingly decided to attempt to shame Yes voters during a mass.

https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605726014048731136
https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605727362249031680

Yizzers are worse than pagans! :pac:

Brian Shanahan

SW wrote: »

One priest seemingly decided to attempt to shame Yes voters during a mass.

https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605726014048731136
https://twitter.com/LaobhaoiseNihE/status/605727362249031680

Can't see either, followers only on the account.

Hoagy

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Can't see either, followers only on the account.

Here's the story.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ballina-priest-2139351-Jun2015/