Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Buer

If Henderson was to leave, it would be the biggest single blow to any of the provinces in terms of playing personnel. He is iconic already with the support and hasn't hit his peak years. Given the lack of other top class options in the team, he's the foundation that the team will be built on for the next few years.

It would be crushing to Ulster's plans if he left even more so than the likes of POM leaving Munster. I'd say Sexton departing at his peak would be the only thing on a similar level but Leinster knew they could still be competitve without Sexton due to other personnel. They don't have other players to take up that level of responsibility or performance in Ulster right now.

bilston

I'd be astonished if he left at this point.

He even says himself there that ideally he will be staying at Ulster.

Utah_Saint

Agree with both of you.
It would be the biggest shock to any province, having the biggest affect due to our lack of depth and quality
I would also be shocked if he did leave, but its a short career and these guys are not even on championship footballer money.

Burkie1203

John Lacey injured. Unable to ref clermont v sarries. What have you done awec

wp_rathead

Is Cave injured? I like Ludik but would have thought Cave a better 13?

torqtorq

The squad has been announced for the second of Ulster's back-to-back Champions Cup games against Harlequins (Friday, 7.45pm).

There are only two changes from the starting XV that beat Harlequins 5-17 at the Twickenham Stoop on Sunday past.

Chris Henry, an impressive performer off the bench last weekend, has earned a starting berth in the back row, while Louis Ludik will start at outside centre in place of the injured Tommy Bowe (hamstring).

Iain Henderson, who will captain the side, and Abbey Insurance Academy player Nick Timoney, who made his European debut last weekend, will join Henry in the back row.

Alan O'Connor and Kieran Treadwell are paired in the second row, while Callum Black, Rob Herring and Wiehahn Herbst retained in the front row.

John Cooney, last week's Heineken Man of the Match, will continue as Christian Lealiifano's half back partner, with Stuart McCloskey in midfield alongside Ludik.

Jacob Stockdale, who scored his sixth try of the season at the Stoop, is again included in the back three along with Craig Gilroy and Charles Piutau.

Andrew Trimble, selected on the bench, is the only new face in the panel of 23.


Ulster currently occupies second position in Pool 1 and a win would put them in a strong position ahead of Rounds 5 and 6 in January.

The match will be televised on BT Sport, with live radio commentary on BBC Radio Ulster and RTE Radio.


Ulster Rugby team to play Harlequins, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 15th December, 7.45pm:

(1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, A O'Connor, K Treadwell, I Henderson (captain), C Henry, N Timoney;

(9-15): J Cooney, C Lealiifano; J Stockdale, S McCloskey, L Ludik, C Gilroy, C Piutau.

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, R Kane, M Rea, S Reidy, P Marshall, P Nelson, A Trimble.

blackdog1

You could play your A team against that Quins side and still win. They have a poor scrummaging Tight head. 2 very young 2nd rows who are just finding their feet. A hooker playing number 7 and 2 other backrows who have no experience. They're half backs are teenagers... Serious injury list at quins. Ulster if they are right mentally should be aiming for 5 points here. Still no Cave?.

CIARAN_BOYLE

wp_rathead wrote: »

Is Cave injured? I like Ludik but would have thought Cave a better 13?

Major dispute between Cave and Kiss apparently.

Like all things in life there's two sides to it.

I will be honest and admit I've heard more of the kiss side to the story. It certainly doesn't paint Cave in the nicest light.

Let's put it plainly while none of us are privy to the details Cave is at the stage where he is marking his timesheets and focusing on his coffee shop rather than focusing on his future Ulster career.

bilston

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

wp_rathead wrote: »

Is Cave injured? I like Ludik but would have thought Cave a better 13?

Major dispute between Cave and Kiss apparently.

Like all things in life there's two sides to it.

I will be honest and admit I've heard more of the kiss side to the story. It certainly doesn't paint Cave in the nicest light.

Let's put it plainly while none of us are privy to the details Cave is at the stage where he is marking his timesheets and focusing on his coffee shop rather than focusing on his future Ulster career.

I'm not privy to either side of the story but there are obviously two points of view. The problem is that (online anyway) Ulster fans are very opposed to Kiss (I'm not entirely convinced that transmits so much to the real world, or at least not to the same extent) so Cave is the one getting the sympathy.

I suppose it depends on the nature of the dispute and how bad it is.

CIARAN_BOYLE

bilston wrote: »

I'm not privy to either side of the story but there are obviously two points of view. The problem is that (online anyway) Ulster fans are very opposed to Kiss (I'm not entirely convinced that transmits so much to the real world, or at least not to the same extent) so Cave is the one getting the sympathy.

I suppose it depends on the nature of the dispute and how bad it is.

To be honest I can't see Cave playing for Ulster in a game with anything approaching the first team again or getting a new Ulster contract.

Either Kiss doesn't like Cave for some stupid reason (FOLK) or Cave is an idiot with no sense of when to shut his mouth but either way I think bridges are obviously burnt by some party.

Poor Jacob...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bcsa3-mhbhM/

prawnsambo

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest I can't see Cave playing for Ulster in a game with anything approaching the first team again or getting a new Ulster contract.

Either Kiss doesn't like Cave for some stupid reason (FOLK) or Cave is an idiot with no sense of when to shut his mouth but either way I think bridges are obviously burnt by some party.

It has to be some kind of internal disciplinary matter. A mere dislike wouldn't be allowed affect the squad like that. Les Kiss has a boss and Ulster are paying Cave's wages, so an issue like that would have been mediated and a solution found by now.

awec

Five points the minimum requirement tonight to keep Europe alive for us. Going to need at least 10 points from the last 3 games to be in with a sniff. Leinster stopping Exeter getting a LBP would be very helpful.

awec

Brett Herron playing 12 for the A team. Safe to say his time at Ulster is up.

Locke_Lamora

Stockdale was watching the Ulster A game with one of those special injury boots (can't remember their name). Hope it's just a precaution.

Dave_The_Sheep

bilston wrote: »

I'm not privy to either side of the story but there are obviously two points of view. The problem is that (online anyway) Ulster fans are very opposed to Kiss (I'm not entirely convinced that transmits so much to the real world, or at least not to the same extent) so Cave is the one getting the sympathy.

I suppose it depends on the nature of the dispute and how bad it is.

I was going to post this here to ask people's opinions on it as I hadn't heard anything about it at all. Obviously, two sides to each story - the one I found on reddit is far less charitable to Kiss and doesn't paint him well.

irishbucsfan

Some of the things that players have done up there and faced absolutely no repercussions, and we're supposed to believe that Cave is being sat because he complained about the defensive system. The real shock to me is that anyone believes that is what happened.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Some of the things that players have done up there and faced absolutely no repercussions, and we're supposed to believe that Cave is being sat because he complained about the defensive system. The real shock to me is that anyone believes that is what happened.

Like what?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Like what?

Like things that are just rumours

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Like things that are just rumours

Under Kiss? I don't think so.

I could well believe the Cave thing. He was stupid enough to speak his mind with regards to Ireland so he could well be stupid enough to speak his mind to Les Kiss at Ulster. Whether or not you think Kiss is good saying it to his face isn't really going to help.

Either way, a player who is probably Ulster's best 13 and who isn't injured can't even get into the squad for the A team. It is not unreasonable to think something odd has happened.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Under Kiss? I don't think so.

I could well believe the Cave thing. He was stupid enough to speak his mind with regards to Ireland so he could well be stupid enough to speak his mind to Les Kiss at Ulster. Whether or not you think Kiss is good saying it to his face isn't really going to help.

Either way, a player who is probably Ulster's best 13 and who isn't injured can't even get into the squad for the A team. It is not unreasonable to think something odd has happened.

No I definitely don't think its unreasonable to think that something has happened. Agree with you there. But I don't believe the idea that he has been sidelined because he spoke his mind about a rugby issue.

mfceiling

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No I definitely don't think its unreasonable to think that something has happened. Agree with you there. But I don't believe the idea that he has been sidelined because he spoke his mind about a rugby issue.

Come on....dish the dirt!!

Synode

Yeah I'm intrigued. PM us if you can't post it

prawnsambo

I got the impression from comments here that Cave hasn't played at all for Ulster this season, but in fact he's started 4 games, the most recent being away to the Kings on 4th November and subbed on most recently against Zebre on the 24th. Six appearances so far this season and one in the EC against La Rochelle.

So he hasn't started a game in six weeks or hasn't been in a match day squad in three weeks. Whatever has happened, it's relatively recent by the looks of things.

The rumours are relatively mild to be honest but I probably wouldn't be rushing to criticise Kiss. Cave has made really stupid remarks previously and was way wide of the mark that time. From what I've heard there has to be more to it.

All that aside, Ulster are neck and neck with Leinster in the pro14 and are looking good for a quarter final in the Champions cup despite unprecedented squad disruption. The vitriol is getting a bit much to be honest and looking in from the outside the problems seem to be of the player attitude variety.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

The rumours are relatively mild to be honest but I probably wouldn't be rushing to criticise Kiss. Cave has made really stupid remarks previously and was way wide of the mark that time. From what I've heard there has to be more to it.

All that aside, Ulster are neck and neck with Leinster in the pro14 and are looking good for a quarter final in the Champions cup despite unprecedented squad disruption. The vitriol is getting a bit much to be honest and looking in from the outside the problems seem to be of the player attitude variety.

Yeah results wise this season is actually going ok. Three big Inter Pros coming up and then the final 2 pool matches in Europe will give us an accurate picture of where we are.

When we are at full strength (even without Coetzee, Jackson and Payne) we are a good side. It's when you get the likes of Pete Browne, Clive Ross and Robbie Diack starting in the Pro 14 that the problems arise.

awec

We have had an easy start to the season fixture wise. We haven’t played any semi-decent team away from home in the league. Still have to go to Galway, Limerick, Dublin. Haven’t played Glasgow yet. Have to go to Scarlets.

The second half of our season is much more difficult than the first. We shouldn’t be neck and neck with anyone, we should have been clear at the top to allow for the fact that we will drop points from here on when we play ALL the difficult fixtures.

Clegg

I'm not an Ulster fan, but even I got annoyed at Kiss when he rested key players for the La Rochelle game and got pasted as a result. Then with his strongest side they lose the next game to Leinster anyway. It's baffling selection policy.

molloyjh

Surely Kiss has had players challenge him and provide feedback before. Sure he coached the national team for years, successfully too it has to be said. He’d never have been able to do that without getting the feedback from guys like ROG, Sexton, POC, Drico, Kearney etc etc.

I’m at a loss to understand how a coach, on the one hand, could manage relationships with some very strong willed players who don’t play together regularly and still manage to get them to implement his game plan successfully against some of the best teams in the world, and yet he can’t do any of that at Ulster apparently. Is that all down to Kiss? Does his past success count for nothing when trying to decide culpability? Or is it at least somewhat relevant?

There’s been talk about the player power aspect in Ulster for years. And for years Ulster have struggled. Yet coach after coach is getting blamed. From the outside looking in what I can see is a coach with a history of delivering working with a team with a history of not delivering and the blame being placed at the feet of the former when the team still isn’t delivering. That may be fair for all I know, but it seems fairly unbalanced and illogical from where I’m sitting (which is at a point of mainly ignorance).

awec

What past success? He has never been a head coach before, he was a defence coach. How much input on the game plan do you really think he had at Ireland?

Our defending is brutal. Players who used to be able to tackle now miss tackles on a semi regular basis. Players who successfully defended under previous regimes now look lost in defence. Players who defended well for other clubs now cannot defend.

Yea, people can go on and say that it's a players fault that they miss tackles, but I'd love to know what has changed in Ulster that has caused us to have an epidemic of missed tackles.

Our defence is rubbish, there is no way to butter it up. Kiss is apparently a defensive guru. It doesn't show.