Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

Tarf1234

In general, that has been the way LL has been for a few seasons. Firsts on first and then the seconds play each other. Unfortunately, numbers of seconds this year has made it a bit of a farce. I know in Tarf our J1 only played 1 game in LL which is ridiculous.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

This by no means needs to happen every week. If you look now Lansdowne, Terenure, Clontarf and UCD all have all weather pitches and with the exception of Lansdowne a grass pitch as well at the same location. So I'm not sure that is as much of an issue as it once was. Belvo have 4 pitches Marys 3. In fact on many Sunday you will see multiple games in both of those grounds.

Also the days of first team players playing seconds after playing on a Saturday are long gone. I'm not aware of any Dublin club, anyway, where this would be the norm. Surely big days out need are the way to promote the club game again. Even if it only happen 2 or 3 times in a year. Much like the Friday night lights happen now.

In reference to the clubs no longer being in the same leagues at different levels there is definitely enough cross over between 2nds or 3rds or 20s between the bigger clubs. I'm sure the same could be done further down even if it was just first and 20s. Anything to get a bigger crowd and more hype is surely a good thing.

That's fine for some clubs but it wouldn't work overall as there isn't enough teams to make it viable. You would have to make considerable changes to social rugby for it to work
The days of first team players being involved on a sunday playing seconds isn't long gone especially if they played very little on a Saturday

SA09 wrote: »

The guys are putting forward valid suggestions here, why do you need to be so negative and try shut down/point out any potential flaw in their points, which, in my opinion seem like a great idea ..

Given the choice, I guarantee the majority of junior players would prefer to play on a Friday/Saturday. AIL clubs should not really be relying on any of the 20 players involved on a Saturday to play on a Sunday - unless coming back from injury/to gain fitness etc.

The 2/3 games in one day is a brilliant idea and would really bring clubs together.

Im not being negative im looking at things from a different angle and having been involved in promo work for my club and elsewhere I know all about the issues with promoting the league.
Its the basic way a club runs that guys who play on a Saturday if have little game time will play Sunday in the j1s....

The Lost Sheep

observed wrote: »

I've played in Sydney Subbies for 4 years and this year moved to a club that plays in a country division (Central Coast). The concept is simple but it would require a major restructure of the league.
Teams get promoted and relegated based on their overall club performance. It makes Saturday a great day for the club everyone is out together.
The club championship is based on a combinations of all teams points.
For example
1st grade 1 point = 5 competition points
2nd grade 1 point = 3 competition points
3rd grade 1 point = 1 competition point
Colts (U/19) 1point = 2 competition points
See the link below to help understand it
http://www.centralcoast.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=199593

Because the central coast is a smaller area we all play in the same division but the sydney subbies has up to 6 divisions with promotion/relegation based on overall performance not just your first grade team.
Subbies teams breakdown here
http://rugby.net.au/page/2015-Draws-Results-x-7262-132-656.html

This allows the strong clubs to move up not just the team with the most money in a division. When I played in subbies we were in division two and would often come up against a team where they had bought a first grade team but if the club doesn't have the infrastructure to back it they will not get promoted.
some of the main benefits of the system are as follows:
Strongest teams move up
It allows colts to get a gentler exposure to the game by graduating through 4th's 3rd's and 2nd's if they are not stron enough to play first grade straight away.
It stops 2nd, 3rd and fourth grade teams being out of their depth just because a club has bought a first grade team
It allows the social players to feel more involved
All teams together as one club
Great social scene and good crowds at games due to the amount of rugby on.
Referees back up too older refs will ref fourth grade then do touch for first grade
Club gets good money off shop/BBQ/beer due to the amount of players
Reduced cost for travel if there are 4 teams on a long bus journey you can do it in two buses instead of hiring 4 smaller buses to travel to four different venues

Some of the fears listed in earlier posts include
Ground deterioration
- Most teams in Sydney play on municipal grounds that are shared with Rugby League teams so there can often be p to 8 games on a pitch (I have played in worse conditions here than when I played at home)
Second team players don't get a game
- Because the second grade team is played just before the first grade game it is easy to back up and play the last 20 minutes of first grade etc. Subs are on an interchange system that allows 10 interchanges so you can bring on and off guys a bit more frequently.
Lack of officials
- Due to the games being in a single venue it allows officials to back up for higher grade games. This also allows younger referees to cut their teeth at lower grade before moving up.

All in all I really enjoy playing out here as it seems more inclusive and as I have got older and more injuries have taken over you can drop a grade and still get a good game without being left out. I often get called up to a higher grade to back up for 10 5 minutes which is enjoyable for an old prop trying to teach the kids a thing or two.

I don't see that working here especially because differences in club sizes etc. Only a fairly small number of clubs have 4/5 adult sides and having 3/4 adult sides playing in same venue as first team would only really work in division 1A due to number of Dublin sides in it. Just isn't feasible anywhere else
Even with firsts/seconds too often in season it wouldn't work...

SA09

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's fine for some clubs but it wouldn't work overall as there isn't enough teams to make it viable. You would have to make considerable changes to social rugby for it to work
The days of first team players being involved on a sunday playing seconds isn't long gone especially if they played very little on a Saturday

Im not being negative im looking at things from a different angle and having been involved in promo work for my club and elsewhere I know all about the issues with promoting the league.
Its the basic way a club runs that guys who play on a Saturday if have little game time will play Sunday in the j1s....

My point is that majority of players would prefer to play on a Friday or Saturday and not sunday. There is no necessity for 1sts players to play j1s the day after. There is enough in a 2nds team without that. I think it would make lots of sense to play the 2 on the same day or a Friday-Saturday. No rugby should be played on Sunday really - there's no appetite for it.

The Lost Sheep

SA09 wrote: »

My point is that majority of players would prefer to play on a Friday or Saturday and not sunday. There is no necessity for 1sts players to play j1s the day after. There is enough in a 2nds team without that. I think it would make lots of sense to play the 2 on the same day or a Friday-Saturday. No rugby should be played on Sunday really - there's no appetite for it.

It just isn't feasible that no rugby should be played on a Sunday. Plenty would prefer to play on Fridays/Saturdays but that just isn't necessary.
In some places clubs can have no 1sts playing 2nds but in most clubs guys who sub 1sts will play 2nds.

Tarf1234

I can't say that it is common place at the top end that subs play 2nds anymore. Not my view having been involved with J1 and knowing plenty of people who have been involved in J1 at other clubs

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I can't say that it is common place at the top end that subs play 2nds anymore. Not my view having been involved with J1 and knowing plenty of people who have been involved in J1 at other clubs

Really? My experience of Connacht and Munster clubs is large number of subs play both days.
Dublin may be different with playing numbers being so different to elsewhere

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You would have to make considerable changes to social rugby for it to work

And would change be a bad thing? The decline in social rugby tells me that things currently aren't working...

The Lost Sheep

GavMan wrote: »

And would change be a bad thing? The decline in social rugby tells me that things currently aren't working...

The way rugby as a whole would have to change and there isn't desire for such a radical overhaul of how rugby is played(as in competitions) amongst the clubs or at least desire to carry out this radical overhaul

Stainalert

GavMan wrote: »

And would change be a bad thing? The decline in social rugby tells me that things currently aren't working...

Agree

Leinster5

AIL Transfers :

Old Belvedere
Ins :
*Eddie Rossiter
*Willie Staunton

Outs : *James Rael

Clontarf
Ins :
*Joey Carbery

Outs :
*Max McFarland
*Cian Culleton
*Matt Darcy

Lansdowne
Ins :
*Josh O'Rourke
*Richie Allen
*Matt Darcy
*Max Deegan

Outs :
*Joseph McSwiney
*Tyrone Moran
*Conor McKeon
*Aaron Conneely

UCD
Ins :
*Keelan McKenna
*James Ryan

Outs :
*Risteard Byrne
*Adam Leavy

Terenure
Ins :
*Risteard Byrne


Old Belvedere have recruited well, two quality players in key positions. No shock to see Lansdowne recruited well in the pack seeing as they've lost several key players from their AIL winning side. UCD have brought in another two 2nd rows which is an odd one. Clontarf have pretty much kept what they have and promoted a few from their Under 20's side. While I wasn't told much about Terenure, but I did hear that Old Wesley have recruited 10+ players and that St. Mary's have struggled to recruit and have lost most of their strong young players to Professional Academies.

Stainalert

Leinster5 wrote: »

AIL Transfers :

Old Belvedere
Ins :
*Eddie Rossiter
*Willie Staunton

Outs : *James Rael

Clontarf
Ins :
*Joey Carbery
Diarmuid Higgins (Buccaneers)

Outs :
*Max McFarland
*Cian Culleton
*Matt Darcy

Lansdowne
Ins :
*Josh O'Rourke
*Richie Allen
*Matt Darcy
*Max Deegan
Eamonn Mills (Dolphin)

Outs :
*Joseph McSwiney
*Tyrone Moran
*Conor McKeon
*Aaron Conneely

Cian Aherne (UL Bohs)

UCD
Ins :
*Keelan McKenna
*James Ryan
Mark McGroarty

Outs :
*Risteard Byrne
*Adam Leavy
Any idea where Leavy has gone?

Terenure
Ins :
*Risteard Byrne
Out
Fergal Walsh (Wicklow player coach)


Old Belvedere have recruited well, two quality players in key positions. No shock to see Lansdowne recruited well in the pack seeing as they've lost several key players from their AIL winning side. UCD have brought in another two 2nd rows which is an odd one. Clontarf have pretty much kept what they have and promoted a few from their Under 20's side. While I wasn't told much about Terenure, but I did hear that Old Wesley have recruited 10+ players and that St. Mary's have struggled to recruit and have lost most of their strong young players to Professional Academies.

Matt D'arcy has joined Cork Con. Ed Kelly (UL Bohs) has moved to a Dublin club. No. 8 Michael Noone has moved back to Ireland and I think may have joined Clontarf?

Terenure also have some players returning to the club (not transfers exactly!)

Eoin Joyce
Adam Clarkin
Kieran Moloney

Stainalert

Deleted User wrote: »

Terenure also have some players returning to the club (not transfers exactly!)

Eoin Joyce
Adam Clarkin
Kieran Moloney

They were all UCD?

Stainalert

Stainalert wrote: »

They were all UCD?

Probably have my wires crossed so, were they all still playing AIL last year?

Stainalert

Stainalert wrote: »

They were all UCD?

I think Joyce and Clarkin went travelling for the year

Think Terenure will do very well this year - Strong U20 set up the last couple of years should help strengthen their squad again although Walsh is obviously a loss

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Matt D'arcy has joined Cork Con. Ed Kelly (UL Bohs) has moved to a Dublin club. No. 8 Michael Noone has moved back to Ireland and I think may have joined Clontarf?

Matt Darcy still hasn't left Clontarf. Ed Kelly and Mick Noone both at Clontarf as is Diarmuid Higgins (Buccs prop).

Max McFarland is the only serious loss and he was barely around last year. Still very much the same team once the Leinster contract guys come back. Culleton didn't really play last year and was supposed to have retired anyway!

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

I think Joyce and Clarkin went travelling for the year

Think Terenure will do very well this year - Strong U20 set up the last couple of years should help strengthen their squad again although Walsh is obviously a loss

If they bring through some of that group of 20s they'll be very strong for a few years. Very dominant for the last 2 seasons

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Matt Darcy still hasn't left Clontarf. Ed Kelly and Mick Noone both at Clontarf as is Diarmuid Higgins (Buccs prop).

Max McFarland is the only serious loss and he was barely around last year. Still very much the same team once the Leinster contract guys come back. Culleton didn't really play last year and was supposed to have retired anyway!

Sorry must be misinformed re D'arcy although if he stays with Munster I don't think he will be let stay with a Leinster club - that's certainly been the case in the past. Yep Clontarf look strong again although their Leinster league form has been a bit odd.

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Sorry must be misinformed re D'arcy although if he stays with Munster I don't think he will be let stay with a Leinster club - that's certainly been the case in the past. Yep Clontarf look strong again although their Leinster league form has been a bit odd.

That is the expectation alright but we're still hopeful we might get to keep him!! Missing a large part of the squad for LL. Backline was a shadow of what you would expect. Expecting a different team out this Friday. Really looking forward to watching Conor O'Brien this year. Looks phenomenal, I think could pass out Ringrose, he is a much bigger man and still very young.

The Lost Sheep

UCD and Clontarf on Friday night game is being streamed on irishrugby.ie

Stainalert

UCD v Clontarf - Going to side with Clontarf on this one although I think UCD will be strong this season

Old Belvedere v Terenure - Terenure

Galwegians v Cork Con - Galwegians

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Garryowen

Lansdowne v Young Munsters - Think Lansdowne will take time to rebuild so going for Munsters

The Lost Sheep

List of all games this weekend. Not sure if i'll go to Corinthians and Queens or Wegians and Con on Saturday but i'll try go to one of them

Hopefully we'll see great crowds at all games this weekend....

Division 1A
Friday
Old Belvedere v Terenure
UCD v Clontarf
Saturday
Galwegians v Cork Con
Garryowen v Ballynahinch
Lansdowne v Young Munster

Division 1B
Friday
Blackrock College v Dublin University
Saturday
Ballymena v Belfast Harlequins
Buccaneers v Shannon
St Marys v Dolphin
UL Bohs v Old Wesley

Division 2A
Friday
Skerries v Naas
Saturday
Galway Corinthians v Queens University
Malone v Banbridge
Thomond v Cashel

Nenagh and UCC only sides not playing AIL this weekend

Division 2B
Saturday
Armagh v Dungannon
Bective Rangers v Highfield
MU Barnhall v City Of Derry
Seapoint v Rainey Old Boys
Sundays Well v Greystones

Division 2C
Saturday
Boyne v Midleton
Dundalk v Bruff
Kanturk v Wanderers
Navan v Sligo
Tullamore v Old Crescent

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

UCD v Clontarf - Going to side with Clontarf on this one although I think UCD will be strong this season

Old Belvedere v Terenure - Terenure

Galwegians v Cork Con - Galwegians

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Garryowen

Lansdowne v Young Munsters - Think Lansdowne will take time to rebuild so going for Munsters

I reckon UCD v Tarf will be very close but will back us just about

OB v Nure - I can see Nure winning by a margin. OB front row stocks very short at the moment and Nure very much on the rise.

Wegians v Con - Tough to call but I'll go with Con, if they have Gerry Hurley fit for the year comfortable top 4 team

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Tough game for Ballynahinch to start with, Garryowen to win

Lansdowne v Munsters - Have to agree. Will be interesting to see how Max Deegan goes this year if he gets AIL time. Lansdowne have lost a lot but have plenty left over.

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

UCD v Clontarf - Going to side with Clontarf on this one although I think UCD will be strong this season

Old Belvedere v Terenure - Terenure

Galwegians v Cork Con - Galwegians

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Garryowen

Lansdowne v Young Munsters - Think Lansdowne will take time to rebuild so going for Munsters

I reckon UCD v Tarf will be very close but will back us, just about

OB v Nure - I can see Nure winning by a decent margin. OB front row stocks very short at the moment and Nure very much on the rise.

Wegians v Con - Tough to call but I'll go with Con, if they have Gerry Hurley fit for the year comfortable top 4 team

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Tough game for Ballynahinch to start with, Garryowen to win

Lansdowne v Munsters - Have to agree. Will be interesting to see how Max Deegan goes this year if he gets AIL time. Lansdowne have lost a lot but have plenty left over.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

List of all games this weekend. Not sure if i'll go to Corinthians and Queens or Wegians and Con on Saturday but i'll try go to one of them

Hopefully we'll see great crowds at all games this weekend....


Division 1B
Friday
Blackrock College v Dublin University
Saturday
Ballymena v Belfast Harlequins
Buccaneers v Shannon
St Marys v Dolphin
UL Bohs v Old Wesley


Serious round of fixtures there. Looks like it will be a seriously competitive league. Rock v Trinity game of the opening week in all leagues. Will tell a lot.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I reckon UCD v Tarf will be very close but will back us just about

OB v Nure - I can see Nure winning by a margin. OB front row stocks very short at the moment and Nure very much on the rise.

Wegians v Con - Tough to call but I'll go with Con, if they have Gerry Hurley fit for the year comfortable top 4 team

Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Tough game for Ballynahinch to start with, Garryowen to win

Lansdowne v Munsters - Have to agree. Will be interesting to see how Max Deegan goes this year if he gets AIL time. Lansdowne have lost a lot but have plenty left over.

Any thoughts on lower division games?
Agree on ye're game, terenure, Con and Garryowen.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Serious round of fixtures there. Looks like it will be a seriously competitive league. Rock v Trinity game of the opening week in all leagues. Will tell a lot.

Will be interesting to see how Blackrock do in 1B this season. Have they signed many now theyre back able to sign and play contracted players??

dunit

Gerry Hurley has moved to a French club so will be a big loss for con. Ivan Dineen gone to Dublin club also
Anyone have any team news for AIL matches in division 1?
I see paddy power have clontarf and ternure heavy favourites in tomorrow's games but I like to see team news before placing a bet

The Lost Sheep

dunit wrote: »

Gerry Hurley has moved to a French club so will be a big loss for con. Ivan Dineen gone to Dublin club also
Anyone have any team news for AIL matches in division 1?
I see paddy power have clontarf and ternure heavy favourites in tomorrow's games but I like to see team news before placing a bet

The Ballymena, Wesey, City of Derry, Kanturk and Midleton teams are listed in the Indo today. A lot more should be in tomorrows papers following training sessions tonight....

turtleshead

Here are my selections from Divisions 1A and 1B some tough games this weekend, great to see the league back in action

Division 1A

UCD v Clontarf - Clontarf
Old Belvedere v Terenure - Terenure
Galwegians v Cork Con - Cork Con
Garryowen v Ballynahinch - Garryowen
Lansdowne v Young Munsters - Lansdowne

Division 1B

Blackrock College v Dublin University - Blackrock
Ballymena v Belfast Harlequins - Belfast
Buccaneers v Shannon - Buccs
St Marys v Dolphin - Marys
UL Bohs v Old Wesley - Old Wesley