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Would you be upset if your family or best friend vote No to marriage referendum

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    #92
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If anyone is really worried about this referendum passing then join the canvass. There is still time. Its a very positive experience. Posting on social media is not as effective.

    www.yesequality.ie/canvass

    Or at the very least make an effort to talk to friends, family, relatives etc. Share personal stories, explain why its important to you. Tell them how the debate is making you feel.

    Donate to the campain where you can as well.

    And then canvass!


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    #93
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    spurious wrote: »
    Someone who doesn't think/believe/consider that I am worth treating equally is a bigot in my book. They are in 'a state of mind where a person obstinately, irrationally, unfairly or intolerantly dislikes other people'.

    In fairness, there are a lot of ordinary people who have been truly confused by the noise and red herring arguments.

    That's why its important to canvass and to talk to people.


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    #94
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    SterlingArcher wrote: »
    I understand its makes people frustrated and angry.

    But wasn't the Catholic church blanking people or telling others to blank them,for thinking different or being different ie homosexual.. Because they believed that what they were doing was right. Same rules apply.

    Personally voting yes, but not going to hate on anyone that does not think the same,I can't tell people to try accept other peoples differences yet not try accept theirs. Or only accept them so long as I agree with them or think they're right.

    I accept people have different views, and I defend their right to hold them.

    But don't ask him to respect the views of somebody who thinks me unequal and undeserving. I have far too much self respect for that.


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    #95
    goldenhoarde
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭goldenhoarde


    Next week don't ask people how they are voting - ask them ARE they voting. don't vote on your own bring a friend/colleague/stranger the more the merrier.

    Explain clearly to your loved ones/anyone what it actually means i.e. its only about marriage and nothing else and what it means to you. They just might not get it that's it's a big deal!

    At least 5% of the country is gay so if they all vote and encourage as many people to vote and explain it to them the implications a Yes result should be possible.

    In short ask everyone you meet on the 22nd to vote!!!


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    #96
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Vojera wrote: »

    I made a complaint about the posters to the Referendum Commission and got back that "there will be views expressed by both sides of the argument that the other side does not agree with. There is no "referee" to decide what is correct or incorrect."

    I replied that I really didn't think that response was good enough - I accept that people can disagree but I DO NOT accept that groups can bring in issues that are completely unaffected by the outcome of the referendum to manipulate the viewpoints of others. In response to that I received an email that said my comments "    have been noted. The Commission are constantly monitoring and updating the www.refcom.ie website as it deems appropriate." So PFO, in other words.

    To say I was disappointed by that is an understatement. I know RefCom has since come out to say that surrogacy is not related, but they left it too long and didn't say it loud enough. There should be sanctions against groups who put forward false information in a referendum campaign.

    There's no regulation of posters or print journalism only broadcast media because of very tight, over the top control by the BAI. That's nothing to do with the Referendum Commission either.

    The referendum commission is really only able to look at how the state behaves and that the information from the state is purely factual.

    There's very little they can do about posters. The Yes side just needs to out argue them.

    Lies and misrepresenting the facts are sadly just part of the toolbox if you're getting underhand.

    If this were a political campaign you couldn't do this kind of negative campaigning as you'd be attacking individuals standing for election. So if you made stuff up, you could be defaming someone.

    You can't defame an abstract concept though so, it's a total free for all.

    If any posters are actually blatantly hateful they could in theory come under the Incitement to Hatred legislation though. None of the official No campaign stuff does though. It's all just about muddying the waters every so politely...

    All you can do is counter every point with logic and hope the electorate is sophisticated enough to see through their spin.

    I've a sense this is going to pass and possibly by a big margin. I could be wrong but that's the way I'm reading it.


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    #97
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    My own wedding is the day after the referendum - I'm a bi woman marrying a straight man. It would make me feel absolutely sick to think that people who were there had actively taken steps to stop the same-sex relationships that good friends of mine are in from being recognised in the same way as mine.


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    #98
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    A friend of mine just posted something supporting the Mothers and Fathers Matter campaign. Gotta say my stomach turned.


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    #99
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    Aard wrote: »
    A friend of mine just posted something supporting the Mothers and Fathers Matter campaign. Gotta say my stomach turned.

    Really sorry to hear that, Aard. It's like people don't make the connection at all that we're real people, not just an abstract idea.


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    #100
    Spanish Max
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Spanish Max


    floggg wrote: »
    I accept people have different views, and I defend their right to hold them.

    But don't ask him to respect the views of somebody who thinks me unequal and undeserving. I have far too much self respect for that.

    That sounds conflicted tbh. You're saying you'll defend and accept someone voting no but won't respect them?


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    #101
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    In fairness I wasn't particularly surprised. Devout Christian with that gormless vacant expression whenever a conversation starts to get logical. You're right though. Completely doesn't make the connection that gay people are also, shock horror, "real" people. Part of me wonders if I'm just a novelty to her. Anyway. Vent over!


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    #102
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    Spanish Max wrote: »
    That sounds conflicted tbh. You're saying you'll defend and accept someone voting no but won't respect them?

    He said he wouldn't respect their opinion, not that he wouldn't respect the person.

    Everyone has the right to an opinion, but no one has the right to have that opinion go unchallenged, especially if it's based on factually incorrect information.


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    #103
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Spanish Max wrote: »
    That sounds conflicted tbh. You're saying you'll defend and accept someone voting no but won't respect them?

    There is nothing conflicted about it. It's a referendum - people are free to vote how they wish and it's not in my gift to tell them how to vote.

    But it is in my gift to reassess my opinions based on how they vote. If they exercise a vote to deny equality for any group, then they are not the type of person I can respect.


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    #104
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Vojera wrote: »
    He said he wouldn't respect their opinion, not that he wouldn't respect the person.

    Everyone has the right to an opinion, but no one has the right to have that opinion go unchallenged, especially if it's based on factually incorrect information.

    I most likely wouldn't respect the person either. A person earns respect through their actions and deeds, and a vote against equaloty (for any group) is not an act or deed worthy of respect.

    I still respect that they have a choice in any election or referendum though.


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    #105
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Can I turn the question around? Would your best friend or a member of your family be upset by your voting yes? Would they resolve to have no more to do with you? How would you feel or react if they did?


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    #106
    Spanish Max
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Spanish Max


    Vojera wrote: »
    He said he wouldn't respect their opinion, not that he wouldn't respect the person.

    Everyone has the right to an opinion, but no one has the right to have that opinion go unchallenged, especially if it's based on factually incorrect information.

    No that's not correct. He wouldn't respect the person for their opinion.


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    #107
    pl4ichjgy17zwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭pl4ichjgy17zwd


    feargale wrote: »
    Can I turn the question around? Would your best friend or a member of your family be upset by your voting yes? Would they resolve to have no more to do with you? How would you feel or react if they did?

    If my best friend or family member were upset at me voting yes and cut contact, I would appreciate them doing it before I did. If you don't believe in my equality, I have no interest in maintaining a relationship with you. And they definitely weren't as good a best friend or close a family member as I thought.


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    #108
    dubscottie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dubscottie


    They only family I have now are my mums side. (both parents died years ago).

    My brother does not care, as my aunties, uncles and some of my cousins all know, but we have a "don't ask, don't tell" thing going on..

    They are religious to a point (Protestant as I was till I worked out it is bollox)

    Think one of my aunties will vote no, but she will still love me the same.. (I hope)..


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    #109
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Fortunately, I appear to have chosen my friends well. They're all vocal yes advocates.


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    #110
    pl4ichjgy17zwd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭pl4ichjgy17zwd


    dubscottie wrote: »
    Think one of my aunties will vote no, but she will still love me the same.. (I hope)..

    I hope she will too, and you're a better person than me that you can not take it to heart.


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    #111
    shamrock55
    Registered Users Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭shamrock55


    Not in the slightest, everyone has the right to vote what they want, i personally couldnt give a ****e what way this referendum goes anyway tbh

    ha!! I never even copped what thread this was in


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    #112
    rainbow kirby
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    feargale wrote: »
    Can I turn the question around? Would your best friend or a member of your family be upset by your voting yes? Would they resolve to have no more to do with you? How would you feel or react if they did?

    Honestly - no. My dad was the main person I thought would vote no, but he's more of an economic conservative than a social one and I've seen him post a Vote Yes video on FB within a day or two of him posting a status praising David Cameron. My two living grandparents are Yes voters too.


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    #113
    lottpaul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭lottpaul


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    My own wedding is the day after the referendum

    Congrats btw - hope you have a brilliant day :D


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    #114
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Fortunately, I appear to have chosen my friends well. They're all vocal yes advocates.
    Same. They're posting about it on Twitter, Facebook more than I am.

    I haven't debated it with wider family and am afraid for the reasons here : I don't want to think less of them and I absolutely would if they, by voting no, demonstrated they think less of me.


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    #115
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    feargale wrote: »
    Can I turn the question around? Would your best friend or a member of your family be upset by your voting yes? Would they resolve to have no more to do with you? How would you feel or react if they did?

    My best friend or family wouldn't. But, hypothetically, that would be there right.

    How would I feel? Better off without them! Honestly, if somebody was irritated you voted for equality (in my case, for my own equality), what would it say about them?

    As has been said again and again, this referendum is personal. Its people's rights that are being voted on, and so it's no surprise that people would take it personally when people elect to vote against those rights.

    I really can't see how that reaction is surprising or difficulty to comprehend. We aren't voting on a fiscal policy or political issue. We are asked to vote on people's rights. And it's only natural that the people whose rights are being voted on would feel hurt and betrayed by those who vote against them.

    On the other hand, a Yes vote won't actually affect a No supporter in any way (unless seeing others have the same rights as they do can be described as some sort of negative impact), and so why they would feel hurt is beyond me.

    But if they feel that say, so be it. That is their right.


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    #116
    Ozymandius2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I would be but were dealing with 2000 years of homophobic brainwashing by the Church which also extolls straight marriages as God given. When you're told you are better than other people because of cities destroyed in the Bible and that meanwhile God blesses your straight marriages, then you are predisposed (unless you are not a devout believer) into considering discrimination against lgbt people as morally justifiable.

    However there are some exceptions to my last point sometimes if a son or daughter is gay. My mother of 73 is a yes but would she be if I wasn't gay I have doubts. I think outside of Dublin the referendum will encounter more resistance, as this mornings rowdy show in Castlemartyr showed.


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    #117
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    I think outside of Dublin the referendum will encounter more resistance, as this mornings rowdy show in Castlemartyr showed.

    Did something happen? I haven't heard anything.


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    #118
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    Vojera wrote: »
    Did something happen? I haven't heard anything.

    I think it's about the Pat Kenny show this morning. He was off site and talking about the referendum.

    Whenever a no campaigner said something like

    "Marriage is between a man and a woman" or
    "(insert irrelevant argument here) kids"

    They got big cheers from the audience.


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    #119
    nathang20
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭nathang20


    I've canvassed all of family, and all of my friends and including work. I don't think I needed to say anything to any of them. I was just confirming support. I pray and hope that "Yes" is the winner. How happy will all us Gay people be, if its a "Yes". What a mile stone?


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    #120
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    nathang20 wrote: »
    I've canvassed all of family, and all of my friends and including work. I don't think I needed to say anything to any of them. I was just confirming support. I pray and hope that "Yes" is the winner. How happy will all us Gay people be, if its a "Yes". What a mile stone?

    And what a day for our country too, to be the first country in the world where the ordinary people voted to give equality to their fellow citizens. I really hope it happens.


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    #121
    tomato1234
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭tomato1234


    No matter what other people are going to vote, you gonna love yourself and sharing that love with someone who appreciates you, rather than looking for love to compensate for a self love.


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