Irish Firearms & Hunting training Academy

Sparks

Were these not difficcult times that involve us here as well in this great little country,no matter how we try and delude ourselvs that we aren't involved and "shure nuthin will happen"itis,no one would be thinking of this or even espousing it.

No, things are definitely happening at the moment. Between stormfront, regular thicko cowards attacking mosques in the dead of night, RIRA gearing up for a spat with the DUP/UVF mob north of the border and the usual drug gangs, there's a lot of stuff going on. I just wouldn't want to be within an ass's roar of it, and I think the idea of our sports getting dragged in that direction is something to be kicked in the crotch and rolled into the nearest ditch in a hurry.

Your job is not to fight off the nazi zombie apocalypse, and if you were trying to, you'd only get in the way when the actual police show up, and then you slow down their reaction times by being a civilian with a firearm that they have to do an on-the-fly threat assessment of. It's probably the fastest way to get shot in the back of the head by someone in uniform that I can think of.

And this "sheepdog" ****e? It's ****e. It's been ****e since the americans started bandying it around thirty years ago, it's never really held up despite the enormous amount of in-the-field trials they've given in (hell, they can't even get their police to learn how not to shoot). Carrying one as a tool to help you run away, or having one in the house, I can get my head around (but it's a nightmare thought because it implies that your society has gotten so bad that you need to do that); but this "I'll carry one to defend other people like a big man"? Please stop. This forum's for Walthers, not Walters.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

No, things are definitely happening at the moment. Between stormfront, regular thicko cowards attacking mosques in the dead of night, RIRA gearing up for a spat with the DUP/UVF mob north of the border and the usual drug gangs, there's a lot of stuff going on. I just wouldn't want to be within an ass's roar of it, and I think the idea of our sports getting dragged in that direction is something to be kicked in the crotch and rolled into the nearest ditch in a hurry.

Lets see,have any of the above Right wing boogeymen driven into crowds for religious reasons and massacred anyone NOT involved in their world,in the last 20 years or so??Apart from our own lads dressed as ERU and toting AKMs in a hotel recently and some poor SOB being an apprentice plumber to a criminal figure and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.I cant think of any ""hose the Homey and his Hoe" LA style drive by where they just spray the street in the hope of hitting their target in Ireland??

And sorry for your "sports" it IS being dragged into it on a European level,whether you like or not.Some more mature countries in their outlook and firearms laws and sports shooters do actually have CCWP and are pushing for it EU wide.Or at least a rational debate on it They just know how to tell the difference and know where there are overlaps,or allow their citizens less leathl self defence options,and dont throw wobblers,stick their fingers in their ears and go "lal la la Cant hear you on this issue!" when the discussion about firearms in civillian hands comes up,like the Irish did with sex until recently.:)

Your job is not to fight off the nazi zombie apocalypse, and if you were trying to, you'd only get in the way when the actual police show up, and then you slow down their reaction times by being a civilian with a firearm that they have to do an on-the-fly threat assessment of. It's probably the fastest way to get shot in the back of the head by someone in uniform that I can think of.

you must be reading the "Fudd's book of reasons civillians must not be anyway armed!"As that is another Fuddism.:)
You DO realise people can be trained as can police[well maybe not,considering these" armed professionals" shot an innocent in the head at London bridge?? I wont comment on the large amount of shots fired,as that is very possible under stress fire conditions]
And you do realise procedures can be put in place on how to deal with the post shooting even??Or are "mere civillians" not capable of this??


,

it's never really held up despite the enormous amount of in-the-field trials they've given in (hell, they can't even get their police to learn how not to shoot).

Please provide verifiable evidence of this??And dont try to compare Eu police work to US police work and training.Both have somevery serious faults.There is a reason some US police are trigger happy and seeing some of the ****e they put up with on a daily basis I'm not surprised why their reactions might be over the top to Europeans.

Carrying one as a tool to help you run away, or having one in the house, I can get my head around (but it's a nightmare thought because it implies that your society has gotten so bad that you need to do that);

Society has been like this always,its just we hear of it alot quicker with modern media and therefore think it is more prevailent.

but this "I'll carry one to defend other people like a big man"? Please stop. This forum's for Walthers, not Walters.

A little man would be alot better in this case..He is a much harder target to hit.:D:D:D:D

CCW has been proven to work for the last 30 years.FBI and CDC in Atlanta have recorded a steady drop in personal assaults since Florida introduced it in the late 1980s Despite the doom mongers predicting blood in the streets at every opportunity by gun nuts..Czech republic,Slovakia..?? Only place that might have a high crime level is our own Northern Ireland,funny tho I doubt you will hear of any mass stabbings or shootings anymore up there either....

But we'll leave it here...Not everyone will see this eye to eye,but it will keep cropping up the more these attacks happen...Suffice to say I hope neither of us find ourselves in a situation like of recent times.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Lets see,have any of the above Right wing boogeymen driven into crowds for religious reasons and massacred anyone NOT involved in their world,in the last 20 years or so?

Are you not watching the news? YES. This morning. One dead, seven injured by some lunatic who wanted to kill muslims.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40322960

I cant think of any ""hose the Homey and his Hoe" LA style drive by where they just spray the street in the hope of hitting their target in Ireland?

How do you forget two lads driving down the M50 firing 9mm rounds from MAC-10s at each other?
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-gangland-violence-feared-after-m50-shooting-1.776927

And sorry for your "sports" it IS being dragged into it on a European level,whether you like or not.

No, it isn't. The EU countries where you do have CCW don't class it as a sport because it's not. It's not even close.

You DO realise people can be trained as can police[well maybe not,considering these" armed professionals" shot an innocent in the head at London bridge?

First off, those were apparently SAS.
If you think they're not armed professionals, you've got a rather shaky position.
Second off, yes, people can be trained as police. We then call them police. And if we're expecting them to be deployed with firearms, we're meant to keep on training them. All the time.

I dunno about you, but I've not got the time or the freedom at work to take half a week off every six weeks or so to go train to shoot people after spending 200 full-time weeks training as a policeman.

Please provide verifiable evidence of this?

Would you prefer statistics or video footage of trained US police shooting unarmed, prone, surrendering, static nurses?
Your call (but seriously, does the mere existence of both not signal that there's a problem to you?).

And dont try to compare Eu police work to US police work and training.

I wouldn't even call the US process training compared to the EU process, it's barely 10% of what we do.

Both have somevery serious faults.

I'll grant you that, just as soon as either of the last two commissioners pick up their phone; but there's a bit of a difference between governance that verges, if not fully crosses over, into incompetence and corruption; and shooting innocent people at a rate that's mindboggling. 409 in 2013 (according to the economist) versus 8 in germany and 0 in the UK. It's creeping up on 10% of all violent deaths by firearm in the US (excluding suicides) being down to the police.

CCW has been proven to work for the last 30 years.

Citation needed, because the National Academy of Sciences publicly stated a few years ago that there had been no research done on the topic that stood up to any kind of analysis, for reasons varying from bad experimental design and bias to actual math errors.

ezra_

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Despite the doom mongers predicting blood in the streets at every opportunity by gun nuts..Czech republic,Slovakia..?? Only place that might have a high crime level is our own Northern Ireland,funny tho I doubt you will hear of any mass stabbings or shootings anymore up there either....

They have CCW in NI?!?!
How does that work - they don't have pistol?!

Cass

Have not stuck my head into this thread for a few days, but trying to get through the last few pages has me wondering why on a sport shooting forum we're discussing, among other things:

• Militia type groups
• Arming civilians
• Training like the DF/AGS
• RKBA

The thread has drifted way off topic and into prohibited territory. That ends now.

The thread will remain open and it will get back on topic.

Any posts after this, and i mean directly after this, continuing on the current theme will be removed and the user infracted.

gunny123

ezra_ wrote: »

They have CCW in NI?!?!
How does that work - they don't have pistol?!

They most certainly DO have pistols, and a vast amount of them too compared to down here. They are used in the shooting sports and for personal protection carry.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

Have not stuck my head into this thread for a few days, but trying to get through the last few pages has me wondering why on a sport shooting forum we're discussing, among other things:

• Militia type groups
• Arming civilians
• Training like the DF/AGS
• RKBA

The thread has drifted way off topic and into prohibited territory. That ends now.

The thread will remain open and it will get back on topic.

Any posts after this, and i mean directly after this, continuing on the current theme will be removed and the user infracted.

Does that include that trouble maker sparks :P

Sparks

gunny123 wrote: »

Does that include that trouble maker sparks :P

Yes, mods have to play by the rules as well.
Apologies folks, got caught at a bad moment (ie. while reading the news)

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

Does that include that trouble maker sparks :P

Yup.

As said above Mods have to play by the rules too. It's why there are always a few Mods to each forum. Mods are 95% regular posters in their own forums and 100% in other ones. If they overstep or step out of line it's the job of the other Mods to act.