VOTE NO

falan

macker33 wrote:

Are people so easily manipulated? Enda is an idiot who only cares about his legacy. A "first" for ireland.

This is the only part of your post that I agree with.

Not a NSA agent

There are plenty of countries in the middle east that let religion make the laws, Im sure you'll find them quite nice.

stefanovich wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what the Yes side are trying to do?

Yes, by voting yes couples of opposite sex will be unable to marry.

No wait, they wont.

Wang King

gravehold wrote: »

Not sure you can sodomise a rock, I think your rock would be safe with anyone

Oh, its not his sexual proclivities I'm worried about

bee06

bee06 wrote: »

Someone said the same thing to me yesterday. The no side would have been a lot better putting forth a moderate argument than all the outrage, anger and disgust they have put forward.

That's true of both sides.

One of the standard arguments online is that if you vote no you are a homophobe, to trigger the anger and disgust that that word invokes.

RiseToMe

Ironically the majority of gay parents spend literally thousands to conceive, it takes years, a lot of planning, a lot of emotional investment, a lot of time off for appointments, but they do it because they want that child together. Gay parents who choose IUI, IVF, adoption etc don't have the choice of just deciding they want a family and conceiving, like many heterosexual parents who need assistance. Gay parents are not "accidental" or "unplanned" parents, they fight for their children from the very start. I can't imagine a home where a child could be more wanted and loved and protected.

Children "need" a mother and father? We are surrounded by single mothers and some father's whose children have no contact with the other parent. These are one parent families, is the No campaign telling them all that they shouldn't be parents too?

I grew up in one parent family, no father role, on a council estate with a mother who worked every hour to keep a roof over head. 3 diplomas, a first class honours degree, bought my own house at 21 and run my own business now. I never had a father figure, yet my siblings, who are very successful and I turned out just fine.

Gay people I'm Ireland are workers, are business owners, are volunteers, firemen, garda, nurses, doctors. Gay people pay the same taxes and contribute to this country just like everybody else. Yet are told that they can't have the same rights to marry the person they love.

Vote yes, who you hold hands with on the street should not make you a less equal citizen.

coolbeans

Keep talking OP, it's all grist to the mill...for the Yes campaign. Love it.

bee06

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's true of both sides.

One of the standard arguments online is that if you vote no you are a homophobe, to trigger the anger and disgust that that word invokes.

Yeah I agree. The so called debate on both sides has been nothing but mud slinging without any real discussion. Can't wait for the whole thing to be over.

Lu Tze

stefanovich wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what the Yes side are trying to do?

What beliefs will be forced on you? If this passes, will you be forced to marry somebody of the same gender?

tayto lover

RiseToMe wrote: »

Ironically the majority of gay parents spend literally thousands to conceive, it takes years, a lot of planning, a lot of emotional investment, a lot of time off for appointments, but they do it because they want that child together. Gay parents who choose IUI, IVF, adoption etc don't have the choice of just deciding they want or family and conceiving, like many heterosexual parents who need assistance. Gay parents are not "accidental" or "unplanned" parents, they fight for their children from the very start. I can't imagine a home where a child could be more wanted and loved and protected.

Children "need" a mother and father? We are surrounded by single mothers and some father's whose children have no contact with the other parent. These are one parent families, is the No campaign telling them all that they shouldn't be parents too?

I grew up in one parent family, no father role, on a council estate with a mother who worked every hour to keep a roof over head. 3 diplomas, a first class honours degree, bought my own house at 21 and run my own business now. I never had a father figure, yet my siblings, who are very successful and I turned out just fine.

Gay people I'm Ireland are workers, are business owners, are volunteers, firemen, garda, nurses, doctors. Gay people pay the same taxes and contribute to this country just like everybody else. Yet are told that they can't have the same rights to marry the person they love.

Vote yes, who you hold hands with on the street should not make you a less equal citizen.

Very good post and well done.
I believe, however, that a child raised in a happy home with a father and mother is the ideal family. A child raised by two gays would still be much better off than a child raised by dysfunctional parents. I'll be voting "Yes".

gravehold

tayto lover wrote: »

Very good post and well done.
I believe, however, that a child raised in a happy home with a father and mother is the ideal family. A child raised by two gays would still be much better off than a child raised by dysfunctional parents. I'll be voting "Yes".

You know you will be called a homophobe for that opinion

tayto lover

gravehold wrote: »

You know you will be called a homophobe for that opinion

Funny enough I had this chat with my gay nephew and he agreed with me. A gay work colleague also agrees with me so I can't see why it would be seen a homophobic but i'll wait and see.

gravehold

tayto lover wrote: »

Funny enough I had this chat with my gay nephew and he agreed with me. A gay work colleague also agrees with me so I can't see why it would be seen a homophobic but i'll wait and see.

Using the gay friend defense tut tut

tayto lover

gravehold wrote: »

Using the gay friend defense tut tut

Defence ??

gravehold

tayto lover wrote: »

Defence ??

I have a gay friend so I can't be a homophobe, standard homophobe defense

tayto lover

gravehold wrote: »

I have a gay friend so I can't be a homophobe, standard homophobe defense

My opinion is my opinion and I don't need it defended.

gravehold

tayto lover wrote: »

My opinion is my opinion and I don't need it defended.

But to the gay lobby you do or you are a privileged homophobe, think why are a mother and fater better then a father and father you can't give one that's not homophobic can you

RiseToMe

tayto lover wrote: »

Very good post and well done.
I believe, however, that a child raised in a happy home with a father and mother is the ideal family. A child raised by two gays would still be much better off than a child raised by dysfunctional parents. I'll be voting "Yes".

I can understand the idea of the" ideal family" being preferable, but why is it seen as ideal?

The days where the father worked and the mother stayed at home are gone. If it was still a case that men worked and women had to stay at home, yes children would miss out on core values.

However, "learning how to be man or woman" was a social construct really. Women work, men work, women cook and clean, men cook and clean, women ready the kids for school and bed, so do men.

On other levels, I know men that can't do any DIY or change a wheel on their car but I know women who can do both easily. Same way as I knew women who aren't sensitive and emotional and men who can really relate to people and share their pain and cry. Note these are straight people who grew up in two parent homes.

What is the benefit of both roles in a home set up anymore when men and women are equal and share workloads and roles in society?

And if it comes back to role models, they are not just parents anymore, they are teachers, friends, family, celebrities. The world is a lot more accessible now than before when your family were your main social output before playschool, extended education, going to the cinema with friends, access to transport, TV, Internet, holidays etc.

wow sierra

macker33 wrote: »

Ireland has been cursed because of how we carried on during the tiger years and now we risk being cursed again.

For the last 15 years all we have heard on the radio is progay nonsense from progay mouthpieces.
Anybody who says anything different to the progay friendly media push is immediately labelled a bigot by the homfacists, Its all completely one sided.

Are people so easily manipulated? Enda is an idiot who only cares about his legacy. A "first" for ireland.

Dont make christianity a criminal offence because progay and christianity cannot exist together.
Gay is a sin to christianity and christianity is a sin lo the libtards, You cant have both.
Gays have never done anything for ireland, We wouldnt even have an ireland if it wasnt for catholicism. The union jack would be flying over government buildings and not the tricolour.

Dont let your parish be a gay parish, vote no to "gay marriage"

Vote how you like in the Referendum - I just want to comment on the whole Freedom V Union Jack comment.
Roger Casement - he of Banna Strand fame - google him. Or if it's too much bother he was executed for his part in the Rising, was knighted for his Human rights work, 30,000 attended his State Funeral etc etc Oh and HE WAS GAY. I think he was one of the greatest Irish men ever.

Some people think Oscar Wilde did something for our reputation in Literature too - but sure what would they know.

tayto lover

gravehold wrote: »

But to the gay lobby you do or you are a privileged homophobe, think why are a mother and fater better then a father and father you can't give one that's not homophobic can you

As I have said in other threads, I believe that in general a child born to a mother and father in a loving relationship would bond better than a child adopted by two gay men.
It's my belief. However a child adopted by two gay men would do much better than a child born into a dysfunctional family. The vast majority of single mothers/fathers raise great kids too as someone already said but there are many exceptions.
Just my opinion. I don't think there is scientific evidence to prove the matter either way though.

gravehold

RiseToMe wrote: »

I can understand the idea of the" ideal family" being preferable, but why is it seen as ideal?

The days where the father worked and the mother stayed at home are gone. If it was still a case that men worked and women had to stay at home, yes children would miss out on core values.

However, "learning how to be man or woman" was a social construct really. Women work, men work, women cook and clean, men cook and clean, women ready the kids for school and bed, so do men.

On other levels, I know men that can't do any DIY or change a wheel on their car but I know women who can do both easily. Same way as I knew women who aren't sensitive and emotional and men who can really relate to people and share their pain and cry. Note these are straight people who grew up in two parent homes.

What is the benefit of both roles in a home set up anymore when men and women are equal and share workloads and roles in society?

And if it comes back to role models, they are not just parents anymore, they are teachers, friends, family, celebrities. The world is a lot more accessible now than before when your family were your main social output before playschool, extended education, going to the cinema with friends, access to transport, TV, Internet, holidays etc.

Damm right only the homophobies think a male/female parents are better the male/male female/female or single parents

Penny Tration

macker33 wrote: »

Paedophile priests are what happens when gays become priests, correct me if i'm wrong but most of the abuse was male on male.
Yeah, gays didnt mess things up there at all.
And now you want gays to be able to adopt, i'm not being funny but would you trust your kids with a gay, i certainly wouldnt.

You are a vile, disgusting little excuse for a human.

Joeseph Balls

wow sierra wrote: »

Vote how you like in the Referendum - I just want to comment on the whole Freedom V Union Jack comment.
Roger Casement - he of Banna Strand fame - google him. Or if it's too much bother he was executed for his part in the Rising, was knighted for his Human rights work, 30,000 attended his State Funeral etc etc Oh and HE WAS GAY. I think he was one of the greatest Irish men ever.

Some people think Oscar Wilde did something for our reputation in Literature too - but sure what would they know.

He probably knew the difference between a Union Jack and a Union Flag, unlike the OP.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

That's true of both sides.

One of the standard arguments online is that if you vote no you are a homophobe, to trigger the anger and disgust that that word invokes.

If you were voting no to interracial marriage, would you be a racist?

RiseToMe

tayto lover wrote: »

As I have said in other threads, I believe that in general a child born to a mother and father in a loving relationship would bond better than a child adopted by two gay men.
It's my belief. However a child adopted by two gay men would do much better than a child born into a dysfunctional family. The vast majority of single mothers/fathers raise great kids too as someone already said but there are many exceptions.
Just my opinion. I don't think there is scientific evidence to prove the matter either way though.

But a baby when born is incapable of doing anything for themselves. They rely on their parents to do everything. The people that get up with them at 3am, feed them, burp them, change them. The people who's voice they know, whose smell they learn, who they cry for when they wake up doesn't matter to them. That's when bonds form.

A baby isn't born with any conception of right and wrong, of gay and straight, they learn and develop that. Just like the learn and develop that these two parents, whatever their gender, are the people who love them and care for them.

I can see all your points BTW and I understand where they come from, I just don't agree and so will continue to ask questions as I am genuinely interested.

tayto lover

RiseToMe wrote: »

But a baby when born is incapable of doing anything for themselves. They rely on their parents to do everything. The people that get up with them at 3am, feed them, burp them, change them. The people who's voice they know, whose smell they learn, who they cry for when they wake up doesn't matter to them. That's when bonds form.

A baby isn't born with any conception of right and wrong, of gay and straight, they learn and develop that. Just like the learn and develop that these two parents, whatever they're gender, are the people who love them and care for them.

I can see all your points BTW and I understand where they come from, I just don't agree and so will continue to ask questions as I am genuinely interested.

I think bonding starts in the womb. That a child can hear familiar/caring voices and gets used to them. A child who is adopted after a month or more does not have that experience. Just like when a new-born lamb can find it's own mother in a field of sheep by smell, sound etc.

RiseToMe

tayto lover wrote: »

I think bonding starts in the womb. That a child can hear familiar/caring voices and gets used to them. A child who is adopted after a month or more does not have that experience. Just like when a new-born lamb can find it's own mother in a field of sheep by smell, sound etc.

So in your opinion, a lesbian couple who opt for IUI or IVF are just as good as parents as a heterosexual couple as they carry the child? It's just gay men that aren't as "suitable"?

gravehold

tayto lover wrote: »

I think bonding starts in the womb. That a child can hear familiar/caring voices and gets used to them. A child who is adopted after a month or more does not have that experience. Just like when a new-born lamb can find it's own mother in a field of sheep by smell, sound etc.

Wow homophobic much

Not a NSA agent

tayto lover wrote: »

I think bonding starts in the womb. That a child can hear familiar/caring voices and gets used to them. A child who is adopted after a month or more does not have that experience. Just like when a new-born lamb can find it's own mother in a field of sheep by smell, sound etc.

If a child isn't with their biological parents then there's a reason for it. Its not like we just take children away while the mother is asleep (not anymore anyway)

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If you were voting no to interracial marriage, would you be a racist?

Ha ha ha!

Someone catch this fellow and pull him out of the barrel, evidently he is near the bottom of it.

Is it the worst point made yet? All opposition to stuff and things is the same?

tayto lover

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

If a child isn't with their biological parents then there's a reason for it. Its not like we just take children away while the mother is asleep (not anymore anyway)

Never said that.