The random stuff thread

RonanC

Looks like they're launching a website too:

https://craftcentral.ie/

CiaranMT

Stephen St News don't make a loss, per se, on the beer they're selling far cheaper than other places. Their margin would still be positive (only slightly mind) but it boggles the mind as to why they would devalue the brands they're selling. They're not doing the volume to justify it and it only makes it harder for them to pay their own overheads at the end of the day. People living in the commuter belts aren't going to travel to the shop just for the prices. I could understand it if it was an Australian type beer warehouse with high volume selling. But a small shop leasing (just guessing here) a city centre premises and presumably funding the recent purchase of an alcohol trade licence (these go for between 5 and 6 figures)* selling a a product far below a typical category margin just doesn't seem feasible in the long term.

*Two assumptions being that the premises is leased and the licence is relatively recently acquired. I don't actually know, they could own the property and have had the licence donkeys years, open to correction on that.

As a consumer it's great but I wouldn't be counting on it being a paradigm shift.

Subcomandante Marcos

They've had an off sales license for years. Their leases bis historic and probably a lot less than you might think, and they are doing it because it's profitable for them.
They aren't "devaluing" brands at all, they're selling at a margin they can afford and providing a better value for customers.

The better question would be why are so many places over pricing craft brands? Especially pubs?

RasTa

I know they pissed off Grand Cru selling KBS at 50% off awhile back. Talk of them stopping importing it into Ireland considering the yanks queue for hours to get a bottle

Subcomandante Marcos

RasTa wrote: »

I know they pissed off Grand Cru selling KBS at 50% off awhile back. Talk of them stopping importing it into Ireland considering the yanks queue for hours to get a bottle

Anyone who queue's for hours for beer is a moron, to be fair. Especially for a beer that is made in quantities as huge as KBS and available in almost every US and European market nearly year round.

Ditto anyone willing to pay the price bars are charging for bottles of KBS.

CiaranMT

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They've had an off sales license for years. Their leases bis historic and probably a lot less than you might think, and they are doing it because it's profitable for them.
They aren't "devaluing" brands at all, they're selling at a margin they can afford and providing a better value for customers.

The better question would be why are so many places over pricing craft brands? Especially pubs?

Fair enough on the lease/licence, wouldn't know myself.

They are devaluing brands though. When consumers expect to get a product at a price that isn't profitable long-term for the producer/distributor/store then the product dies off and/or associated businesses close. You might suggest that the producer looks to reduce costs and fair enough, but it is exactly this thinking that gets you to mass-produced beer like Heineken, Bud etc, where there is no space in the marketplace for real variety. In my understanding of the market, consumers buy 'craft' (hate the term myself) because it offers more taste, a better experience etc. If costs are reduced on ingredients, you lose out on this. If they reduce their (already small) workforce, quality and consistency will suffer. Wages, likewise, along with motivation.

I can't speak for pub prices as I don't deal in the on-trade.

CiaranMT

RasTa wrote: »

I know they pissed off Grand Cru selling KBS at 50% off awhile back. Talk of them stopping importing it into Ireland considering the yanks queue for hours to get a bottle

This is bonkers pricing, never heard that! That would most definitely be selling below cost, why would you bother!?

Passenger

CiaranMT wrote: »

This is bonkers pricing, never heard that! That would most definitely be selling below cost, why would you bother!?

Marketing the shop essentially. Gets peoples gums flapping and increases their social media presence.

Subcomandante Marcos

Funny that Grand Cru never had a problem selling bulk cases of beers to Drink Store to sell at below cost price. Bottle of Sierra Nevada Celebration for €1, regularly a massive bin in the middle of the shop with Grand Cru brands reduces to €1-€2 with more cases of Grand Cru brands on the floor of similar offers.

Funny how nobody else ever had a problem with this?

Suddenly a shop starts a low margin/high volume approach and it's "devaluing" brands.


Such absolute nonsense.

Where were the whingers when O'Briens were selling 440ml cans of 6%+ IPA's at 4 for a tenner a few months ago?

CiaranMT

Passenger wrote: »

Marketing the shop essentially. Gets peoples gums flapping and increases their social media presence.

True, look at this thread sure 😂 Social media presence doesn't necessarily increase sales though.

Subcomandante Marcos

Passenger wrote: »

Marketing the shop essentially. Gets peoples gums flapping and increases their social media presence.

And it's not act below cost price. And it clears a product that wasn't selling because it was over priced and widely available so the hype died very quickly.
Why should they keep it on the shelf taking up space that could bring profit? Sitting on stick is losing money. Taking a hit on the margin to clear up retail space is the profile approach in the short, medium and long term.

n97 mini

L1011 wrote: »

If they've got their prices down by predatory practices with suppliers that's not good, but reducing their own margin is fine.

As someone who had sold beer to them they couldn't have been better to deal with. Paid the same wholesale price as all the other offies, and paid promptly. There are plenty of places that are nowhere near as good to deal with.

That Mitch lad needs to get a life. He was blocked. So what, get over it and stop trying to damage a great business.

CiaranMT

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Funny that Grand Cru never had a problem selling bulk cases of beers to Drink Store to sell at below cost price. Bottle of Sierra Nevada Celebration for €1, regularly a massive bin in the middle of the shop with Grand Cru brands reduces to €1-€2 with more cases of Grand Cru brands on the floor of similar offers.

Wasn't aware of that, sounds like old/out of date stock being shifted on.

Funny how nobody else ever had a problem with this?

Suddenly a shop starts a low margin/high volume approach and it's "devaluing" brands.


Such absolute nonsense.

Where were the whingers when O'Briens were selling 440ml cans of 6%+ IPA's at 4 for a tenner a few months ago?

The key term here is volume. Stephen St News don't do enough volume to justify the price, O'Briens have over 30 stores to split a few pallets up between. The promo you're referring to was noticed in the trade alright, but O'Briens are at a scale where such promotions are to be expected.

CiaranMT

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

And it's not act below cost price. And it clears a product that wasn't selling because it was over priced and widely available so the hype died very quickly.
Why should they keep it on the shelf taking up space that could bring profit? Sitting on stick is losing money. Taking a hit on the margin to clear up retail space is the profile approach in the short, medium and long term.

I can tell you that it was sold below cost, this price would not have even covered VAT. Widely available would be a fairly inaccurate term to use as well. Carlsberg is widely available. KBS is available at specialist shops and pubs, if you know what you're looking for. It's not a mass market product.

Subcomandante Marcos

CiaranMT wrote: »

It's not a mass market product.

It's readily available in dozens of markets on (at least) two continents and brewed at volumes that would make some macro breweries blush.

It's widely available.

Subcomandante Marcos

Ya wanna know what hurts consumers and breweries?

Idiocy like the flawed logic that "craft" beer should always be sold at higher prices/margins than the beers they are competing with for tap/shelf space.

I was at a talk where the chair of the supposed beer consumers organisation told a room full of publicans and retailers that "craft" beer should always be sold as a "premium" product at parity or more expensive than macro beers, because it implies quality to consumers. This was then printed in the LVA or VFI's quarterly magazine thing.

It was one of the most retarded things I'd ever heard.

Breweries at the time, and still now, are pricing kegs to be competitive with macros, especially their core beers, so that they can increase sales to on trade, and publicans are being told, by a consumer organisation, sure just up the margin and sell them for more than macro, and then the publicans wonder why they can't shift pints of pale ale or stout for €1-2 more than pints of macro beers, despite paying similar prices for the get ex vat.

RasTa

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Funny that Grand Cru never had a problem selling bulk cases of beers to Drink Store to sell at below cost price. Bottle of Sierra Nevada Celebration for €1, regularly a massive bin in the middle of the shop with Grand Cru brands reduces to €1-€2 with more cases of Grand Cru brands on the floor of similar offers.

Funny how nobody else ever had a problem with this?

Suddenly a shop starts a low margin/high volume approach and it's "devaluing" brands.


Such absolute nonsense.

Where were the whingers when O'Briens were selling 440ml cans of 6%+ IPA's at 4 for a tenner a few months ago?

Well no, those beers are out of date and shouldn't even be sold. Not that it bothers anyone but KBS was well in date.

The man is a fool

CiaranMT

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's readily available in dozens of markets on (at least) two continents and brewed at volumes that would make some macro breweries blush.

It's widely available.

https://www.mlive.com/beer/2017/03/a_brief_history_of_founders_kb.html

Just over 1% of Breakfast Stout production becomes KBS. 5000 barrels (or more, allowing for increased production levels since the article was published) might sound like a lot of liquid but spreading it across the markets you refer to renders the level of supply thin enough. This is all sold in a market where the share of overall sales including macros is from ~10-15% (USA) to somewhere like Ireland (around 3%). Sure, we all know about it here on this discussion because we all take an interest in beer, but show the product to 20 punters on the street and you'll do well to find one that knows what it is. I wouldn't call that mass market or widely available, even considering Founders' scale and ownership structure. You could say their All Day IPA is however.

Irish beer hunter

n97 mini wrote: »

As someone who had sold beer to them they couldn't have been better to deal with. Paid the same wholesale price as all the other offies, and paid promptly. There are plenty of places that are nowhere near as good to deal with.

That Mitch lad needs to get a life. He was blocked. So what, get over it and stop trying to damage a great business.

I'm not sure who you worked with, but have you any idea how many reps SSN has been through?

RasTa

Hello Mitch

n97 mini

Irish beer hunter wrote: »

I'm not sure who you worked with, but have you any idea how many reps SSN has been through?

I can only speak for ourselves. Our guy was perfectly happy to do business with them, not something that can be universally said.

Do you want to elaborate?

BeerNut

Stone Brewing's dream of revolutionising German beer is over. They've sold the Berlin brewery to BrewDog.

RonanC

Whiplash appears to have moved breweries

BaZmO*

Didn't they have a falling out with the last brewery?

Subcomandante Marcos

BaZmO* wrote: »

Didn't they have a falling out with the last brewery?

That's one way to put it.

They were turfed out of Larkin's because their brewer was being a d*ckhead was the more accurate description.


As an aside, same Brewer when he left his last job they released a beer called Miami J. Google Miami J and see what it's used to fix :pac:

BeerNut

Whiplash are bringing the Copenhagen Beer Celebration model of festival to Dublin. Mansion House, 13th July, two sessions, €70, all you can drink.

Hotblack Desiato

Sounds like a challenge :cool:

Dellboy54

BeerNut wrote: »

Whiplash are bringing the Copenhagen Beer Celebration model of festival to Dublin. Mansion House, 13th July, two sessions, €70, all you can drink.

Thats gonna be messy....

Subcomandante Marcos

I'll be avoiding that like the plague anyway.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I'll be avoiding that like the plague anyway.

aw diddums did the bwad man no bwad things