UK Election 2015

T0001

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is interesting although the voting systems are different therefore 37% of the vote in Ireland would not get an overall control of the Parliament

I mean the trend is interesting. FG and L can push the fear factor that seems to surround SF economic policies and could get back into government easier than is currently expected

A Dub in Glasgo

jank wrote: »

As they say in Scotland, the SNP are all mouth and no trousers. Being a party of opposition is one thing but could the SNP actually rule Scotland, as in if they had full fiscal autonomy? Don't the English tax payer subsidise them as it stands, just like NI? Careful what you wish for.

The SNP have been Governing Scotland under the devolved parliament since 2007. The 1st term as a minority Government and the 2nd term as an overall majority (under PR no less!)

Can you demonstrate that the English taxpayers subsidses Scotland?

jank

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The SNP have been Governing Scotland under the devolved parliament since 2007. The 1st term as a minority Government and the 2nd term as an overall majority (under PR no less!)

Can you demonstrate that the English taxpayers subsidses Scotland?

Barnett forumla?

A Dub in Glasgo

jank wrote: »

Barnett forumla?

The Barnett formula does not demonstrate that the English taxpayers are subsidising Scotland

ancapailldorcha

It does demonstrate that money goes from Westminster to Edinburgh. This is after Scottish contributions to the treasury are tabulated. I'd say the English are subsidising the Scots after that though. They cost the exchequer £12.1 bn in 2012/13, source.

londonbus

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The SNP have been Governing Scotland under the devolved parliament since 2007. The 1st term as a minority Government and the 2nd term as an overall majority (under PR no less!)

Can you demonstrate that the English taxpayers subsidses Scotland?

Scotland receives roughly what it pays in. The only other UK regions which are net contributors are London and South East England.

A Dub in Glasgo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990

This is an old one but gives a general take on it

KingBrian2

alaimacerc wrote: »

Challenge the one that Ireland's considerably more conservative!


Due to PR, and the constant petty splits at the Judean People's Front of Judea. Look at the left vote in the two countries. As in "has only ever have conservative government" vs "has semi-regularly had Labour" governments.


Evidently you don't consider abortion, gay rights, access to land, public health services, education, and separation of church and state to be important issues, then!


How's that again? The UK has the second highest minimum wage in the EU. They oppose their own law? Eh?


... which ones? So vague as to be meaningless.


vs having only recently removed constitutional claims of extraterritorial irredentism? That's not "conservative" in any way, somehow?


You're supposed to be arguing they're more conservative than Ireland. Not comparing them against France or Germany.


Entirely incorrect. The UK has devolved parliaments and assemblies. It has local government with significantly greater powers and competencies than Ireland's even more ludicrously feeble ones.

The conservatives are way more conservative than our parties. Their allies are the bitterly homophobic anti catholic DUP. They have the House of Lords which they want to supplant parliamentary democracy and reject the findings of the ECJ. This is the same party that Ukip sprung from. Last time I checked none of our mainstream parties would advocate militaristic policies.

As for the minimum wage we have a higher minimum wage.

eire4

jank wrote: »

As they say in Scotland, the SNP are all mouth and no trousers. Being a party of opposition is one thing but could the SNP actually rule Scotland, as in if they had full fiscal autonomy? Don't the English tax payer subsidise them as it stands, just like NI? Careful what you wish for.

Well the SNP has been running Scotland and clearly given yesterdays vote they have been doing a job that most people in Scotland are happy with.


As for your question asking does the English tax payer subsidize Scotland just like NI. The answer is no. Belfast pretty much survives on the subsidy it gets from London. Belfast simply couldn't survive in its current form or anything like it as the subsidy they get is so big.
Scotland does indeed get a subsidy from the treasury but that is because the treasury does not include oil revenue as being mostly Scottish which of course it is. If you do include oil revenue that changes the picture greatly and depending on what oil revenues are in a given year can result in Scotland actually paying in a little more or still getting back a little more.

KingBrian2

The Scots and English should just live in peace as companions. Forget all the political baggage. We can deal with both sides. No need to bring up centuries of heartache. They both have their own traditions and heritage. The Scots have the Lock Neck Monster & the bagpipes while the English have their Oxford educated graduates.

A Dub in Glasgo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The Scots have the Lock Neck Monster & the bagpipes while the English have their Oxford educated graduates.

I despair sometimes

A Dub in Glasgo

Front page of the Sunday Herald

alaimacerc

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The conservatives are way more conservative than our parties.

Firstly, that's an entirely different proposition. Are you forgetting that the UK has, unlike Ireland, had non-conservative governments? You shouldn't be, as I already pointed this out...

But since you're on a roll:

Their allies are the bitterly homophobic anti catholic DUP.

Guilt by association... without the actual association. And note that the Tories a) legislated for same-sex marriage, and b) have Catholic cabinet members. Give the devil their due.

They have the House of Lords which they want to supplant parliamentary democracy and reject the findings of the ECJ.

HoL is part of parliament, how precisely does it "supplant" it? And are you familiar with the Parliament Act?

And are you by any chance thinking of the ECHR? Not at all clear what you mean, otherwise.

This is the same party that Ukip sprung from. Last time I checked none of our mainstream parties would advocate militaristic policies.

Well, one of them is a very recent convert from "the armed struggle", as I recall...

The UK is to right of Ireland on Euroskepticism and bombing random bits of the Middle East, sure, for all the obvious historical reasons in each case. And on about those alone, really -- that it took you two posts to come up with, mind you.

As for the minimum wage we have a higher minimum wage.

Incorrect. Google it. And either way (should either vary, or the exchange rate take another lurch), how would this square with your "is opposed to" claim? It's the law. No UK party proposes to abolish it.

eire4

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Front page of the Sunday Herald

Scotland is seeing the Tories extend their long used playing of the "orange card" into the current political climate in England and it is nasty and plays to base bigotry.

jank

Anti Tory demo turns violent.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2015-05-10/arrests-at-anti-austerity-protest-outside-downing-street/

These nut jobs are just a bunch of fascists. The election result not 48 hours old and they cause a ruckess. Also defacing a women's war memorial with 'fuuck tory scum'? Pointless, stupid, idiotic and juvinelle, which actually does more harm then good for whatever cause they follow.

ancapailldorcha

I'm glad people are ready to protest but violence will just end up with them being demonised by the media.

Lovely Bloke

half of them probably didn't even vote.

pablomakaveli

I could nearly guess that the protest was probably infiltrated by anarchists who never need an excuse to cause trouble.

jank

On the protest, the made me laugh.

jank

The Guardian seem to be going all Russell Brand, Democracy is a sham, why vote, its all useless, etc.etc.

Of course if Labour won the election then we would be hearing how the people of Britain voted to end Austerity, crush greed, stop the Tory vision for Britain, workers of the world unite .. etc.etc.

All bluster and amusing but entertaining none the less.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/may/08/democracy-a-religion-that-has-failed-the-poor

ancapailldorcha

I have a lot of problems with the Guardian but it's by far the least of the serveral evils which comprise the British mainstream press.

Do you think it's right that over a million people can vote Green and get only one MP? Or that nearly four times as many can vote UKIP and get the same result? Or that half of Scots can get 56 MPs?

joseph brand

jank wrote: »

On the protest, the made me laugh.

That is just sooo funny. Because the protesters are all scroungers right? They're probably black too, right? Is there some way we can jail protesters? Perhaps we can set up death happy camps for the poor while we're at it. They're so smelly and gross right? Eeew!

Conservative: "Why don't you just get a bloody job" /adjusts monocle

Jobseeker:

Jelle1880

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I have a lot of problems with the Guardian but it's by far the least of the serveral evils which comprise the British mainstream press.

Do you think it's right that over a million people can vote Green and get only one MP? Or that nearly four times as many can vote UKIP and get the same result? Or that half of Scots can get 56 MPs?

That's the issue with the debate about the voting system. It seems like it's sour grapes from the losers, despite the fact that they make a very valid point about a broken system.

jank

joseph brand wrote: »

That is just sooo funny. Because the protesters are all scroungers right? They're probably black too, right? Is there some way we can jail protesters? Perhaps we can set up death happy camps for the poor while we're at it. They're so smelly and gross right? Eeew!

Conservative: "Why don't you just get a bloody job" /adjusts monocle

Touched a nerve? Godwining the thread AND bringing race into it, well done. Its the full monty of emotional debating based on hysterical nonsense and make believe alternative realities.

Meanwhile on planet earth, there will always be a cohort of people who are dubbed professional protestors. Some came to protest peacefully as is their right, others came to cause trouble, hurt police officers and damage property, including defacing a women's war memorial all of which is against the law.

On the tweet, its funny. That's all.

Icepick

The main story of this election is how ridiculously anti-democratic and bipolar the first past the post system is.

jank wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2015/may/08/democracy-a-religion-that-has-failed-the-poor

Not 'democracy's' fault the system in the UK is not very democratic.

karma_

jank wrote: »

Touched a nerve? Godwining the thread AND bringing race into it, well done. Its the full monty of emotional debating based on hysterical nonsense and make believe alternative realities.

Meanwhile on planet earth, there will always be a cohort of people who are dubbed professional protestors. Some came to protest peacefully as is their right, others came to cause trouble, hurt police officers and damage property, including defacing a women's war memorial all of which is against the law.

On the tweet, its funny. That's all.

The tweet was crass, and showed an extraordinary insight into how the political class see the electorate.

jank

karma_ wrote: »

The tweet was crass, and showed an extraordinary insight into how the political class see the electorate anti-tory protestors.

FYP.

Incidentally Luarie Penny self confessed far left revolutionary feminist hipster (who was privately educated of course so knows all about the working class) sees no problem with the vandalism.

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/597115014059810817

A quote I like which is wrongly attributed to Churchill
"The fascists of the future will be called anti-facists"

Iwasfrozen

Icepick wrote: »

The main story of this election is how ridiculously anti-democratic and bipolar the first past the post system is.

Not 'democracy's' fault the system in the UK is not very democratic.

I suppose if Labour won it wouldn't be undemocratic? Was the SNP sweep undemocratic?

A Dub in Glasgo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I suppose if Labour won it wouldn't be undemocratic? Was the SNP sweep undemocratic?

If Labour got an overall majority on 37% it would be the same, then yes and yes to your 2nd question

Icepick

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I suppose if Labour won it wouldn't be undemocratic? Was the SNP sweep undemocratic?

The system is undemocratic no matter who wins, and it created and sustains the two-party competition.
SNP - of course, the numbers speak for themselves. And of course if people knew their votes won't be wasted, the support for the most popular candidates would be even lower: