Farming Chit Chat sticks it to six.

_Brian

Willfarman wrote: »

Jesus I'm a muck savage in Ireland and I can't remember a time I felt as emotional about anything like this..Imagine how people will be in France. There is going to be some backlash against these bustards.

I wonder will this lead to a serious lock down of EU borders. Free travel may be seriously reduced.

Ongoing interference in the Middle East and African countries over the last 100 + years has fuelled these extremists, given them ways to swell their ranks. Their numbers have reached critical mass, many are EU citizens which makes them hard to identify from non radical Muslims.

There is no easy solution to this problem. It's something I fear we will come to live with along with the increased security that goes along with it.

Willfarman

_Brian wrote: »

I wonder will this lead to a serious lock down of EU borders. Free travel may be seriously reduced.

Ongoing interference in the Middle East and African countries over the last 100 + years has fuelled these extremists, given them ways to swell their ranks. Their numbers have reached critical mass, many are EU citizens which makes them hard to identify from non radical Muslims.

There is no easy solution to this problem. It's something I fear we will come to live with along with the increased security that goes along with it.

I think that about sums it up.. France had a complete lack of an immigration policy.

_Brian

This is a multidimensional problem.

If you put yourself in the place of an undereducated middle-eastern or African teenager. They see American British and French forces and planes on their soil, drones "accidentally" blowing up weddings. Add the colonial brutal history countries like France UK, Holland have, and radicalism is an easy sell to them. They are putty in the hands of those with little moral code and an axe to grind against the west. When you look at some of the puppet governments like Sadam Hussien put in place by the US who brutalised the people of the country and it's neighbours. Western forces have gone in to "liberate" peoples only to become bored- walk away and leave them to be slaughtered by the old regime.

Nothing excuses what happened in Paris, but we should remember that the west have behaved awfully in these regions, usually for financial gain and backlash has always been on the cards.

bogman_bass

Grueller wrote: »

Just hearing about the Paris attacks now. I am sure somebody more politically aware than me will tell me why its a bad idea but, assuming this is islamists, surely boots on the ground in the middle east must happen now.

That is exactly the reaction these lads are looking for. France goes over and kills Akmid, his brother is upset by this so want revenge and joins the nut jobs and it all starts all over again.

ganmo

bogman_bass wrote: »

That is exactly the reaction these lads are looking for. France goes over and kills Akmid, his brother is upset by this so want revenge and joins the nut jobs and it all starts all over again.

That post needs a bit of...

blue5000

EU is one big step closer to closing the borders, trouble is there are so many Muslims already in parts of France, Germany and UK that it could be 30 years too late. Don't get me wrong, not every Muslim has been radicalized, but the ones that are pose a real threat.
This crap has been going on since the Knights Templar went to save the holy land. Democracy shoved down people's throats with (US) guns hasn't helped either.

Greengrass1

120 dead and counting.
And absolute horrific tragedy.
London in lock down now my sister tells me

bogman_bass

blue5000 wrote: »

EU is one big step closer to closing the borders, trouble is there are so many Muslims already in parts of France, Germany and UK that it could be 30 years too late. Don't get me wrong, not every Muslim has been radicalized, but the ones that are pose a real threat.
This crap has been going on since the Knights Templar went to save the holy land. Democracy shoved down people's throats with (US) guns hasn't helped either.

But the refugees are the ones trying to get away from these lads in the first place

TITANIUM.

blue5000 wrote: »

This crap has been going on since the Knights Templar went to save the holy land.

Forgive me for being pedantic, but the templars weren't founded till after the first crusade. But I know what you mean.
Tis an extremely complicated problem now. These latest incarnation of jihadi's are some barbaric brainwashed baxtard.

BG2.0

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Forgive me for being pedantic, but the templars weren't founded till after the first crusade. But I know what you mean.
Tis an extremely complicated problem now. These latest incarnation of jihadi's are some barbaric brainwashed baxtard.

Going back again to Battle of Tours etc etc, regardless.
What's the future, interment camps for those security agencies believe are involved in 'stuff' if convince a panel of judges to arrest first as questions later?

blue5000

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Forgive me for being pedantic, but the templars weren't founded till after the first crusade. But I know what you mean.
Tis an extremely complicated problem now. These latest incarnation of jihadi's are some barbaric brainwashed baxtard.

Ah you're grand, I'm not that big into history, glad you understood what I was trying to say.
Solution for this ain't simple, complicated by oil in the middle East too. Some ppl think global warming is adding to the problem as more crops fail in sub-sahara Africa.

Willfarman

Lessons need to be learned here with our relatively new Muslim population.
Schools should be schools of learning for all kids and mixed together and religion for home and weekends.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Willfarman wrote: »

Lessons need to be learned here with our relatively new Muslim population.
Schools should be schools of learning for all kids and mixed together and religion for home and weekends.

+1

If parents are concerned about religion, they can take care of that i their own time, not in official school time where there would then be space for the kids to learn a foreign language.

Win win all round:)

CloughCasey1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

+1

If parents are concerned about religion, they can take care of that i their own time, not in official school time where there would then be space for the kids to learn a foreign language.

Win win all round:)

Things can't be let go like Britian where every section in society seems segregated from each other in different parts of any given town. Don't know how it is in France though. If society is mixed better they might think twice of commiting such acts in their own mates families etc.etc.

bogman_bass

Not only that but housing. We don't want to see ghettoisation like in other countries. But as a country we need to be inclusive and make new members of our country feel that they are a part of it.
There are second and third generation Algerians living in France that don't feel French and feel totally marginalised. They have no jobs and resent the country they live in. These young angry men are easy victims for grooming

bogman_bass

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Things can't be let go like Britian where every section in society seems segregated from each other in different parts of any given town. Don't know how it is in France though. If society is mixed better they might think twice of commiting such acts in their own mates families etc.etc.

You beat me to it

Buford T. Justice XIX

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Things can't be let go like Britian where every section in society seems segregated from each other in different parts of any given town. Don't know how it is in France though. If society is mixed better they might think twice of commiting such acts in their own mates families etc.etc.

Dawggone would probably fill it in better but I believe there is a huge disconnect in the suburbs around Paris and other cities between the average French person and the emigrants and their children that entered France since the Algerian crisis.

There is a lack of integration with traditional French society and probably not enough money spent in education and support for the emigrant families.

And there is a core of emigrants who blame France for everything wrong with their lives and channel that frustration in destructive ways. Both sides have much to blame themselves for.

A good friend of mine was living in Paris in the 90s and when I went over, she showed me what were basically ghettos and it was frightening the conditions that people were living in and then the contrast with the middle class area she was living in.

This is going to be a huge wake up call for the French people and I hope it doesn't head to excess:(

Nekarsulm

Willfarman wrote: »

Lessons need to be learned here with our relatively new Muslim population.
Schools should be schools of learning for all kids and mixed together and religion for home and weekends.

I totally agree. In most parts of this country, kids from all immigrant communities attend school mixed in with local kids. This is no absolute guarantee against radicalisation of course, Jihadi John went to a middle class C of England school, for example.
However also important is to resist the typical Daily Mail / Telegraph scaremongering. I have worked with a good number of Muslim families and found them moderate and honourable people.
The problem arises with disaffected youths, more than half in love with the gun and visions of glory, and easily manipulated by hate filled clerics and other authority figures. These "leaders" are the people we need to guard against.

So far we are fortunate that most Muslim immigrants are from prosperous middle class professions.

Mac Taylor

I see Reggie is performing on X factor now. Was wondering where he had gone to.

BG2.0

I'm sorry but there's something very wrong about having to moddy coddle a group of people just for the hope they won't turn into the worst of monsters.

Willfarman

In my own local town 20 odd years ago a young man got his head filled with ****e And toddled off London to get on a bus hoping to leave an explosive to kill and maim innocent Londoners..
It blew up prematurely killing only him. Apparently he is a hero..

I agree it's those that preach hate and look to recruit stupid susceptible minds are where the powers that be need to target.

patsy_mccabe

Can't help but think that if the Republicans were in power in the US, they would have dealt with ISIS a long time ago. Not saying I would agree with this, but they wouldn't have just sat back and allow them to gain strength.

Very sad though. RIP to all those killed.

bogman_bass

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Can't help but think that if the Republicans were in power in the US, they would have dealt with ISIS a long time ago. Not saying I would agree with this, but they wouldn't have just sat back and allow them to gain strength.

Very sad though. RIP to all those killed.

They didn't manage it last time. They reacted exactly the way Al Qieda wanted them to and now we have the lovely mess we have now.

bogman_bass

BG2.0 wrote: »

I'm sorry but there's something very wrong about having to moddy coddle a group of people just for the hope they won't turn into the worst of monsters.

It's not about moddy coddeling anyone. But if you treat people like **** don't be supprised if they don't like you very much

Buford T. Justice XIX

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Can't help but think that if the Republicans were in power in the US, they would have dealt with ISIS a long time ago. Not saying I would agree with this, but they wouldn't have just sat back and allow them to gain strength.

Very sad though. RIP to all those killed.

The middle east states are a mix of different peoples and religious groupings, none of which have much respect or belief in any of the others. They were only created after the first World War and had to be governed by a European supported strong man and could only survive as long as a strong man with the support of European supplied military remained in charge.

Taking out Saddam Hussein for WMDs which didn't exist and forcing democracy on a grouping of people who didn't want it and weren't ready for it instead of leaving a strong man (a dictator, in effect) in charge was a huge mistake as it left the space for this type of militancy to survive and prosper.

And all that is without even mentioning the source of the religious brand of Islam causing all these problems, Saudi Arabia, which is using the money received from the west for oil to fund Wahabbi schools and allow their preachers to continue to preach more hate and keep the cycle going. And the reason for the Saudis to do this? To effectively buy off the population to keep themselves in power and wealth:(

Willfarman

It take a dictatorship to bring anything resembling stability in these regions.. A western influenced dictatorship is the only hope. Russia definitely is taking the correct approach in Syria.

_Brian

Willfarman wrote: »

It take a dictatorship to bring anything resembling stability in these regions.. A western influenced dictatorship is the only hope. Russia definitely is taking the correct approach in Syria.

A western influenced dictator like Saddam Hussein ? Wasn't he installed by the west, as were countless puppet governments in this region all leading to trouble and conflict.
Regarding Putin in Syria , it's not inked that he is only targeting the anti government forces being trained and helped by the US. So the US and Russia have just moved their international spate to Syria where they are involved in a game of one up manship I. Which no doubt the greatest casualties will be innocent Syrians.

Willfarman

A puppet is no problem until it stops being a puppet!

But yes the Middle East will always be a game of one man up. It makes sense to back the likely winner. Which would surely have to be the current government?

Suckler

Willfarman wrote: »

Russia definitely is taking the correct approach in Syria.

Russia definitely isn't; their only concern is if Assad is toppled they'll lose their naval base in Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea.

American installed puppet dictators end in disaster as well. They gave Iran the Shah and his antics led to the current bunch of lunatics gaining control since the 70's. Afghanistan and south American involvement was the same.

_Brian

Suckler wrote: »

Russia definitely isn't; their only concern is if Assad is toppled they'll lose their naval base in Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea.

American installed puppet dictators end in disaster as well. They gave Iran the Shah and his antics led to the current bunch of lunatics gaining control since the 70's. Afghanistan and south American involvement was the same.

It's interesting to see some of the crackpot theories on things but one I saw recently was that IS in their infancy was started by US influences. Mad as it seems it wouldn't be the first time an American sponsored rebel group outgrew it's masters and then turned on them and the west.
There is far more puppeteering and manipulation going on behind the scenes than most of us understand. I expect even more than US or European governments know about !!