US shooting at Mohahammed Cartoon conference

Hitchens

kneemos wrote: »

If there's one thing we've learned from the gulf wars it's that we're dealing with a new kind of enemy that won't lie down and poking it with a stick makes it bite.

you'll be advising the appeasement route then? that should end well alright

durtybit

Who won the $10,000 ?

Wang King

durtybit wrote: »

Who won the $10,000 ?

Think it was a piece called "Durka Durka, Chaklines on the Pavement"

IrishTrajan

durtybit wrote: »

Who won the $10,000 ?

It was a picture of a hand drawing Mohammed. Mohammed held a sword with the words "You can't draw me!" and a speech mark off to the side of the hand saying "that's why I do" I think.

take everything

Hitchens wrote: »

It's pathetic the way pc brigade fall over themselves trying make excuses for the Isis brigade ........"apart from the throwing gay people of tall buildings and cutting off people's heads they're not the worst you'd meet"

A lot of hypocrisy all right from supposedly liberal-minded people. Either appeasing it or saying nothing at all about stuff like this. I've yet to hear a good argument about the absolute need to not examine/ridicule/satirise/criticise Islam (just like any other religion).
It strikes me as simply fear of something that they have no other solution to which is understandable but very unsatisfactory.
Basically pandering to a deadly psychosis.
Not an easy situation but still pandering to madness is what it is.

CiDeRmAn

take everything wrote: »

A lot of hypocrisy all right from supposedly liberal-minded people. Either appeasing it or saying nothing at all about stuff like this. I've yet to hear a good argument about the absolute need to not examine/ridicule/satirise/criticise Islam (just like any other religion).
It strikes me as simply fear of something that they have no other solution to which is understandable but very unsatisfactory.
Basically pandering to a deadly psychosis.
Not an easy situation but still pandering to madness is what it is.

I don't think you can represent a central part of a faith as "a deadly psychosis", unless you consider all religions to be an exercise in self delusion and talking to yourself as I do.
I don't think liberals are apologising or appeasing Islam in this case either, simply recognising that the perpetrators of this incident do not represent the vast majority of people of the Islamic faith. The other recognition should be that the organisers of the event were doing so to generate a reaction, to preach hate, and they baited extremists.
I wonder how it would have seemed if moderate Muslims were protesting outside the event instead? Or were they already there?

UCDVet

Personally, I think this is a pretty good solution to a very real problem. We don't want honest journalists getting killed for a harmless drawing of some religious figure.

Instead, we should encourage large groups of armed people to have the most insulting and offensive contests. It's like hanging up an electric bug zapper - let a bunch of gun toting Texans be SUPER offensive. Half those people were just PRAYING they'd get a chance to shoot a terrorist - and they got their wish.

In the end, the world is a better place. We have two fewer terrorists and by making the drawing of religious figures more common, it will desensitize people to it.

mister gullible

Originally Posted by mister gullible View Post
More appropriate title: Jihadist Retards shoot at Provocative Gob****es.
o

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Unless this is sarcasm the username is certainly apt.

Massimo Cassagrande

SterlingArcher wrote: »

I find it amusing. not the guys getting killed. They made a choice their decision, thems the breaks.

The part I find amusing is Texas holding that event as if to say we are not afraid to speak freely . All for freedom of speech. But You go down to Texas and hold a slagging off god, calling god homosexual cartoon event. See how much freedom is appreciated in the bible belt .

Seems its more, speak freely as long as the majority agrees. It's not the corpses stinking, it's the Hypocrisy.

Erm...toddle over to the Middle East and have a shout about God..ought to end well..

BlaasForRafa

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I wonder how it would have seemed if moderate Muslims were protesting outside the event instead? Or were they already there?

A peaceful protest would have been the correct and lawful way to protest this conference. If people had tried to abuse peaceful protestors then by rights the police should protect the protestors.

smurgen

take everything wrote: »

A lot of hypocrisy all right from supposedly liberal-minded people. Either appeasing it or saying nothing at all about stuff like this. I've yet to hear a good argument about the absolute need to not examine/ridicule/satirise/criticise Islam (just like any other religion).
It strikes me as simply fear of something that they have no other solution to which is understandable but very unsatisfactory.
Basically pandering to a deadly psychosis.
Not an easy situation but still pandering to madness is what it is.

I don't think any religions should be protected from ridicule but I can just see a situation emerging where Muslims are the new targeted minority. i just think competitions such as these will help marginalise moderate Muslims and make them feel unwelcome in their local communities. i wouldn't feel comfortable identifying as a practising Muslim in many parts of America.just as I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable practising as a Christian in certain Muslim countries.

smurgen

The whole incident reminds me of a more extreme version of this! https://youtu.be/NIcqbpHE5Bo

Roger Hassenforder

IrishTrajan wrote: »

It was a picture of a hand drawing Mohammed. Mohammed held a sword with the words "You can't draw me!" and a speech mark off to the side of the hand saying "that's why I do" I think.

tis here

tisnt great

Custardpi

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

tis here

tisnt great

Doesn't have to be. The people trying to shut down this event don't care about the artistic merits of the cartoon, no more than the people 30 years ago trying to get The Satanic Verses banned cared about its literary value. What matters is that it's "offensive".

Roger Hassenforder

Custardpi wrote: »

Doesn't have to be. The people trying to shut down this event don't care about the artistic merits of the cartoon, no more than the people 30 years ago trying to get The Satanic Verses banned cared about its literary value. What matters is that it's "offensive".

wonder what came second

h2005

Isn't religion great!!

Streetwalker

h2005 wrote: »

Isn't religion great!!

Nowt but trouble, all of them.

moc moc a moc

Streetwalker wrote: »

99.99% of Muslims are peace loving and no different than you and me

I don't believe that for a minute.

SterlingArcher wrote: »

You go down to Texas and hold a slagging off god, calling god homosexual cartoon event. See how much freedom is appreciated in the bible belt

Two flaws in your argument:

1) You would certainly incur the ire of the locals, and possibly physical violence, but I don't believe you would be literally murdered.

2) The situation is not the same. The equivalent to holding an event disparaging a muslim icon in Texas would be holding an event about a gay christian god in Riyadh. The likelihood of a pair of rabid christians going on a murder rampage attempt in Riyadh on account of their religious beliefs is absolutely zero.

jmayo

I think a fair few people here are either American or falling for the line trotted out by the American media by labelling as lefties or liberals those who condone/excuse these two nutjobs and condemm the event organisors/participants.

A lot, if not most, left wing people are not so anti West that they would pedal such shyte.

The ones who excuse these people are the same ones who will condemm the West for not doing anything about a right wing dictator in some hell hole and then the next week will condemm them for overthrowing them.
They will laud some tin pot dictator or ruler just because he stands up to the western powers, even though if they were in the self same country they would not have the same levels of freedom as they do in the west.

The same type of people engage in a self loathing of the West, indeed of their own country and their own kind (be i race, religion, ethnic group, etc).

How many of these so called lefties are on other threads congratulating putin, a ring winger ?

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Nobody is saying they're all Jihadist. But a disproportionate number of them are.

I'm of the belief economic circumstances are more important as to why they have a high number of fanatics, but that does not excuse the fact that Islam does have a disproportionate number of people willing to kill for any slight against it, real or imagined.

Was bin laden poor ?
Were most of the 911 hijackers poor ?
Is Jihadi John from a poor background, sure they weren't rich but he had the opportunity to get a decent education and have a nice normal life ?

kneemos wrote: »

If there's one thing we've learned from the gulf wars it's that we're dealing with a new kind of enemy that won't lie down and poking it with a stick makes it bite.

Charming, lets just leave them have their way.
Lets just change our societies lest they be offended.
Sure why not just adopt Ali Selim's education proposals and be done with it. :rolleyes:

smurgen wrote: »

I don't think any religions should be protected from ridicule but I can just see a situation emerging where Muslims are the new targeted minority. i just think competitions such as these will help marginalise moderate Muslims and make them feel unwelcome in their local communities. i wouldn't feel comfortable identifying as a practising Muslim in many parts of America.just as I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable practising as a Christian in certain Muslim countries.

Actually change that to the majority and you might be more correct.

IrishTrajan

jmayo wrote: »

Was bin laden poor ?
Were most of the 911 hijackers poor ?
Is Jihadi John from a poor background, sure they weren't rich but he had the opportunity to get a decent education and have a nice normal life ?

Of course not. Bin Laden was playing a game of geopolitics.
I don't know, I don't have access to their bank account information.
An outlier. ISIS only had a few hundred fighters until they took Mosul and offered €200 a month to each fighter... After which their strength rose to 30,000 or so.

Yes, some of them are attracted by excitement, or fanaticism. They can be considered statistical outliers, the vast majority of people will respond to materialism with decreased religious devotion. The converse is also true: as people get poorer, they become more religious.

Einhard

jmayo wrote: »

Actually change that to the majority and you might be more correct.

I actually agree with a fair bit of your post, but this comment gave me pause. Exactly what Muslim countries would you not feel comfortable as a practising Christian? Obviously there are a number where the situation isn't ideal (for everyone, from Christians to Sunnis to Shias- depending on how is in the ascendancy in a particular area)- but I doubt it's anywhere near a majority.

And, for balance, which is often an alien concept around here, one might point out that there are some countries where Muslims are increasingly persecuted- there have been mob attacks against, and murders of, Muslim minorities in Burma and Sri Lanka in the past year. By allegedly pacifist Buddhists. Of course, we rarely, if ever, here of those attacks. Funny that.

Egginacup

c_man wrote: »

So let me get this straight. You read the news article on the shooting, and your main take-away from is a criticism/mocking of the event organisers... Nothing on the maniacs who tried to shoot people because of cartoons... Right, well I guess that says a lot tbh.

I don't need to condemn these two gunmen. And just because I don't doesn't mean I condone them so don't try and that little game with me, pal.

Unless you think that this post was put up and then the only people to reply are to say "bastards!" and then go off about their business again. Is that it?

You can take from it what you will but if you're actually accusing me of something here then I'd like to know what exactly it is.

volchitsa

IrishTrajan wrote: »

the vast majority of people will respond to materialism with decreased religious devotion. The converse is also true: as people get poorer, they become more religious.

What is funny here is that in an attempt to defend Islam, you have actually equated religious belief with religious violence. Not a great defence of any religion then, never mind the one with the greatest track record of violence, in recent times anyway.

jmayo

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Of course not. Bin Laden was playing a game of geopolitics.
I don't know, I don't have access to their bank account information.
An outlier. ISIS only had a few hundred fighters until they took Mosul and offered €200 a month to each fighter... After which their strength rose to 30,000 or so.

Yes, some of them are attracted by excitement, or fanaticism. They can be considered statistical outliers, the vast majority of people will respond to materialism with decreased religious devotion. The converse is also true: as people get poorer, they become more religious.

The scary thing about modern muslim fundamentalists is that they are not all poor uneducated jobdaws, but there are a sizable amount of western educated reasonably intelligent people.

It is a bit like how a fair few of the worst nazis were actually from well educated relatively well off backgrounds.

Einhard wrote: »

I actually agree with a fair bit of your post, but this comment gave me pause. Exactly what Muslim countries would you not feel comfortable as a practising Christian? Obviously there are a number where the situation isn't ideal (for everyone, from Christians to Sunnis to Shias- depending on how is in the ascendancy in a particular area)- but I doubt it's anywhere near a majority.

And, for balance, which is often an alien concept around here, one might point out that there are some countries where Muslims are increasingly persecuted- there have been mob attacks against, and murders of, Muslim minorities in Burma and Sri Lanka in the past year. By allegedly pacifist Buddhists. Of course, we rarely, if ever, here of those attacks. Funny that.

Actually I can't think of many muslim dominated countries where a christain can be gauranteed safety.
How many would allow open freedom of religion as we know it ?

We have now reached a situation where that have been attacks on non muslims in most muslim dominated countries.
All it takes is for another perceived slight against the prophet for some muslims to look for a westerner, non muslim (probably a christian) to attack.
Then add in the influence of radical organisations linked to ISIS or Al Qeada and it makes for safety concerns.

Out of the top 10 countries that are most likely to persecute christians only Burma and North Korea are non muslim.
More than 70 % of Christians have left Iraq since 2003 and over 700,000 Christians have fled Syria in the past four years.
You have persecution in Somalia, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Maldives, Pakistan, Iran and Yemen.

In countries that underwent “Arab Spring” uprisings, increased persecution occurred after the regimes collapsed as in Egypt, Libya, Syria.
Radical Islamists have grown in number in sub-Saharan Africa and we have now serious issues in Nigeria, Central African Republic.

There was already issues on the other side of the continent in Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia.

Central Asian countries like Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan have bad records on the treatment of christians.

Hell a muslim mob (including a police chiefs brother) attacked a protestant church in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia last month for daring to have a cross on the roof.

As for that muslim country that sometimes sees itself as European and wants to join the EU, well 4 christian churches were attacked there in the past year.
Back in 2007 three Christians had their throats slit. Two of the victims had converted from islam to christianity.

About the only Muslim country that I can find that comes out anyway decent is Morocco.

And speaking of muslims being persecuted, in a lot of the above states muslim minorities who don't happen to practice the majority brand (usually sunni) are persecuted.

IrishTrajan

jmayo wrote: »

The scary thing about modern muslim fundamentalists is that they are not all poor uneducated jobdaws, but there are a sizable amount of western educated reasonably intelligent people.

It is a bit like how a fair few of the worst nazis were actually from well educated relatively well off backgrounds.

Absolutely, it is rather peculiar. I believe there are quite a few psychologists studying the behaviour and trying to figure out why that is the case.

But my case will generally hold true. Economic circumstances, for the most part, dictate how secular a peoples are.

volchitsa wrote: »

What is funny here is that in an attempt to defend Islam, you have actually equated religious belief with religious violence. Not a great defence of any religion then, never mind the one with the greatest track record of violence, in recent times anyway.

I'm not defending the religion, I find the religion deplorable and believe it is a contributing factor, but I just think that economic circumstances are more pressing than the religion in and of itself.

It is the lack of economic well-being that pushes most people into the arms of the religion (where then the text and preachings of the religion warp and twist them). I have a Syrian friend in the UAE who drinks alcohol, and isn't really mattered with the religion.

volchitsa

;)a

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Absolutely, it is rather peculiar. I believe there are quite a few psychologists studying the behaviour and trying to figure out why that is the case.

But my case will generally hold true. Economic circumstances, for the most part, dictate how secular a peoples are.

I'm not defending the religion, I find the religion deplorable and believe it is a contributing factor, but I just think that economic circumstances are more pressing than the religion in and of itself.

It is the lack of economic well-being that pushes most people into the arms of the religion (where then the text and preachings of the religion warp and twist them). I have a Syrian friend in the UAE who drinks alcohol, and isn't really mattered with the religion.

So your Syrian friend would be quite likely to become a extremist if he were a little poorer, would he??
Unlikely.

Now if you'd said education was the relevant factor, I'd have been more in agreement - but even then, the guys who drove a car bomb into Glasgow airport terminal were doctors, FFS.

How many genuinely poor and/or people without access to education have committed any of the terrorist acts in Europe? There were more engineers than illiterates among them.

darkpagandeath

What Religious law was broken anyway in this case ?

bjork

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What Religious law was broken anyway in this case ?

Nothing from the Koran but stuff from a hadith, which seem to be gospel

Streetwalker

Laughable amount of Islamophobia in here.

smurgen

Einhard wrote: »

I actually agree with a fair bit of your post, but this comment gave me pause. Exactly what Muslim countries would you not feel comfortable as a practising Christian? Obviously there are a number where the situation isn't ideal (for everyone, from Christians to Sunnis to Shias- depending on how is in the ascendancy in a particular area)- but I doubt it's anywhere near a majority.

And, for balance, which is often an alien concept around here, one might point out that there are some countries where Muslims are increasingly persecuted- there have been mob attacks against, and murders of, Muslim minorities in Burma and Sri Lanka in the past year. By allegedly pacifist Buddhists. Of course, we rarely, if ever, here of those attacks. Funny that.

Off the top of my head I'd say Iran and Turkey. I remember seeing an article about a group of Iranian Jews telling Benjamin to f off for asking them to move to Israel to protect them . apparently Tehran has a few synagogues slap bang in the city centre and they Jews are a well integrated part of society there.