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Getting evicted for boycotting Irish Water - Mod Warnings post #29, 95 & 108

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    If they're not going to give you a copy of the bill than don't pay it

    Any utility will give you the bill before the amount is due

    You need time to check you are on the correct rate and everything is in order before you pay. This will probably only take a few minutes but you should not hand over money to the agent with vague excuses why you can't get a copy
    worded wrote: »
    Wash your hands of this OP

    Well played :D


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Even the IMF appear to be scratching their heads on this.

    Yes, water is charged for almost everywhere else so and it doesn't get to the taps for nothing so it seemed an obvious one to go for..

    I wonder what happened to that other recommendation 'reform of the legal system, barristers etc ' that strangely seems to be the only one not implemented... and is the cause of much of the higher living and business costs in ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭DonalK1981


    Traditionally we paid for it via our income tax system. Now- instead- we're paying directly, and will, in turn, receive a rebate (of 100 per year on a 250 Euro bill) and hopefully tax cuts.

    Instead? does that mean your income tax bill reduced?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    DonalK1981 wrote: »
    Instead? does that mean your income tax bill reduced?
    Income tax bils did reduce in the last budget...

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Unfortunately OP, you can only be a rebel and not pay if you own the place.

    Your LL decided his place was going to pay for the water and forward the bill on to the ones renting.

    Leaving out all the emotional stuff about paying for water, the end result is a bill that isnt being paid. Could have been an ESB bill and you wouldnt have a leg to stand on either if you ddint want to pay that.

    *(I am not against paying for water , i am against paying for bad quality water)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2 daoruisce


    I will wait for the notice to quit and will post on boards what reason for eviction is. A bill has not arrived through the door with my name on it from Irish water so how could I have been expected to pay it? The fact I was not given a copy of the bill means I still have not received a bill from Irish water in any shape or form and even when/if I do it will be between me and them.

    After sleeping on this matter I have decided that the rent will be paid. The reason for this is I do not have a problem with the landlord and I agreed to pay him rent when I moved in. I unwittingly also agreed to pay all rates etc as posted in original post, but, I have looked at the contract again and a few lines down another point says "to pay promptly all accounts for the supply of electricity, gas and heating to the property and the use of the telephone and other services there." The key word here being promptly, it does not say that the water bill has to be paid promptly. If I fall into arrears with electric company I am offered a payment plan but the same has not been offered to me with Irish water.

    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 OldieWilson


    I'm boycotting paying for my food, but yet when I went to the shop yesterday they said I had to pay for it or they wouldn't give me any!!
    Scandalous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    daoruisce wrote: »
    After sleeping on this matter I have decided that the rent will be paid. The reason for this is I do not have a problem with the landlord and I agreed to pay him rent when I moved in. I unwittingly also agreed to pay all rates etc as posted in original post,


    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.

    Unwittingly agreed to pay water charges? They hid it in the lease agreement, the last place you would expect terms of the lease to be... This speaks more about the wit of the OP than the LL.

    I'm curious about how you'll go about negotiating with the next LL. How will you do it without looking like a troublesome tenant?


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭sailing


    We all have our opinions on paying for water. My own bill arrived last week. However save yourself the hassle. Pay it and move on with your life. When you live in your own house then take moral ground should you wish. If as you said you have been a good tenant then just go along with it. This is not a charge your landlord is imposing on you. It's a utility charge from the Government through Irish Water. By not paying it will cause you hassle you probably don't need in the future if you don't. Eg references, falling out with LL, letting agency, etc.

    As for negotiating rent against future water bills. Good luck with that. It's a landlords market out there at the moment. Save yourself the hassle that will entail.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    daoruisce wrote: »
    I will wait for the notice to quit and will post on boards what reason for eviction is. A bill has not arrived through the door with my name on it from Irish water so how could I have been expected to pay it? The fact I was not given a copy of the bill means I still have not received a bill from Irish water in any shape or form and even when/if I do it will be between me and them.

    After sleeping on this matter I have decided that the rent will be paid. The reason for this is I do not have a problem with the landlord and I agreed to pay him rent when I moved in. I unwittingly also agreed to pay all rates etc as posted in original post, but, I have looked at the contract again and a few lines down another point says "to pay promptly all accounts for the supply of electricity, gas and heating to the property and the use of the telephone and other services there." The key word here being promptly, it does not say that the water bill has to be paid promptly. If I fall into arrears with electric company I am offered a payment plan but the same has not been offered to me with Irish water.

    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.

    You will find it very hard to rent another place without a reference from your current LL. He will be well within his rights to point out your reluctance to pay the water charges. You will have to pay them wherever you go, so why cut off your nose to spite your face at this stage?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 dinglebay


    Steve012 wrote: »
    When would water charges be in the lease a year ago? huh?

    at the very least, since the last imposition of water charges - in the '90s I think.
    Pay up and stop expecting others to pay for you


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    daoruisce wrote: »
    I will wait for the notice to quit and will post on boards what reason for eviction is. A bill has not arrived through the door with my name on it from Irish water so how could I have been expected to pay it? The fact I was not given a copy of the bill means I still have not received a bill from Irish water in any shape or form and even when/if I do it will be between me and them.

    After sleeping on this matter I have decided that the rent will be paid. The reason for this is I do not have a problem with the landlord and I agreed to pay him rent when I moved in. I unwittingly also agreed to pay all rates etc as posted in original post, but, I have looked at the contract again and a few lines down another point says "to pay promptly all accounts for the supply of electricity, gas and heating to the property and the use of the telephone and other services there." The key word here being promptly, it does not say that the water bill has to be paid promptly. If I fall into arrears with electric company I am offered a payment plan but the same has not been offered to me with Irish water.

    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.

    If you come out with this garbage you Will not have a place to live in. Why dont you also ask for electricty be taken into account? They are all personal consumption bills. Any landlord on hearing you say that should have red flags going up saying trouble tenant ahead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭daheff


    "to pay all rates and water charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement" .

    so technically the OP has signed a lease to agree the property taxes on the property too ("all rates").

    NIMAN wrote: »
    The fact that people got so annoyed over a €160 annual bill baffled me. No protests for the TV licence, or the USC which is a LOT more. Or many other cuts and taxes they could have protested against but some people just got a bee in their bonnet about this.

    People got a bee in their bonnet because they know that its not going to stay at €160 for ever (its actually 260 with a 100 bribe from Social welfare). If this charge stays, you will see the cost go up when the cap is lifted. Currently the state is paying most of the cost of IW, eventually this will all be directly paid for by the user.
    dinglebay wrote: »
    Pay up and stop expecting others to pay for you
    General taxation already pays for water charges.


    I'm not against paying for water, but I am against setting up overstaffed, overcosted quangos to do the job inefficiently and ineffectively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I'm boycotting paying for my food, but yet when I went to the shop yesterday they said I had to pay for it or they wouldn't give me any!!
    Scandalous.

    Funny. But True . The organised extreme left brigade have ordinary folk worked up over this. Clean water costs and this way will keep consumption abuse under control. It is à utility bill and that is provided for in all rental contracts. The bill will follow the tenant so landlords shouldnt really worry about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    I own an apartment which I have rented out.

    I received bill for water last week. All I did was ring Irish Water and explained I didn't live there and ask what was their policy on this.

    They told me that all I had to do was provide them with tenants name and they would send bill to them. I asked what would happen if they didn't pay it and they said that the bill would follow the tenant and I wasn't liable at all even if it wasn't paid when tenant moved out


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭daheff


    zefer wrote: »
    I own an apartment which I have rented out.

    I received bill for water last week. All I did was ring Irish Water and explained I didn't live there and what was their policy.

    They told me that all I had to do was provide them with tenants name and they would send bill to them. I asked what would happen if they didn't pay it and they said that the bill would follow the tenant and I wasn't liable at all even if it wasn't paid when tenant moved out

    but surely providing the tenants details to IW is a breach of the data protection act?


    Also, whats to stop you from making it up that you have rented the property out? IW could be chasing a nonexistant person


  • Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭jimd2


    daoruisce wrote: »
    I will wait for the notice to quit and will post on boards what reason for eviction is. A bill has not arrived through the door with my name on it from Irish water so how could I have been expected to pay it? The fact I was not given a copy of the bill means I still have not received a bill from Irish water in any shape or form and even when/if I do it will be between me and them.

    After sleeping on this matter I have decided that the rent will be paid. The reason for this is I do not have a problem with the landlord and I agreed to pay him rent when I moved in. I unwittingly also agreed to pay all rates etc as posted in original post, but, I have looked at the contract again and a few lines down another point says "to pay promptly all accounts for the supply of electricity, gas and heating to the property and the use of the telephone and other services there." The key word here being promptly, it does not say that the water bill has to be paid promptly. If I fall into arrears with electric company I am offered a payment plan but the same has not been offered to me with Irish water.

    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.

    There is an old saying "when you are in a hole stop digging".

    You strike me as someone that has made a decision based on whatever propoganda that is out there which you are entitled to do. But that does not mean that the landlord is out of line in looking to evict and you seem to be struggling to justify your actions.

    Either pay or accept the consequences of non payment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    daheff wrote: »
    but surely providing the tenants details to IW is a breach of the data protection act?


    Also, whats to stop you from making it up that you have rented the property out? IW could be chasing a nonexistant person

    Not sure on first point but as the tenancy is registered, I assume they can get it from PRTB anyway? Or whatever database they got my name from?
    It's like changing electricity/gas utility at the start of any tenancy, the tenants details need to be provided

    Very good question on the 2nd point, no idea how they prove or disprove that it is rented out.
    I did have a chat to rental agency that I use and their stance is that if tenants don't pay, that it will be taken out of deposit at end of tenancy. It is stipulated in their tenancy agreements now.
    The only thing that I am certain of is that the entire landlord/tenant Irish Water setup is a mess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,502 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    daoruisce wrote: »
    Next time I rent a property the water charge is definitely something that will be discussed when negotiating the rent. After all I am the customer and the landlord is making money from me and this is something I will try and get offset in the price of rent, the same happens in the UK.

    In a landlords market, and you clearly being a trouble maker for the LL, the chances of there being any negotiating position to begin with is laughable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    You didn't sign up unwittingly for water rates when you signed your lease. It stated it quiet clearly.
    The only reason the bill isn't in your name is because you refused to register your details with IW.
    Good luck getting a reference from your LL when looking for a new place if you leave(or try to leave) him with the bill.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    What do people expect if they don't pay their bills? Really.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    jimd2 wrote: »
    There is an old saying "when you are in a hole stop digging".

    You strike me as someone that has made a decision based on whatever propoganda that is out there which you are entitled to do. But that does not mean that the landlord is out of line in looking to evict and you seem to be struggling to justify your actions.

    Either pay or accept the consequences of non payment.

    I think the username says it all - daouruisce - dear water. As you say, stop digging!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    daheff wrote: »
    but surely providing the tenants details to IW is a breach of the data protection act?


    Also, whats to stop you from making it up that you have rented the property out? IW could be chasing a nonexistant person

    Au contraire. .. Its within data protection reg. Basically pay there is only going to be one winner the state. Pay up and move on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    You could protest to the EA but it might be water off a ducks back


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    zefer wrote: »
    Not sure on first point but as the tenancy is registered, I assume they can get it from PRTB anyway? Or whatever database they got my name from?
    It's like changing electricity/gas utility at the start of any tenancy, the tenants details need to be provided

    Very good question on the 2nd point, no idea how they prove or disprove that it is rented out.
    I did have a chat to rental agency that I use and their stance is that if tenants don't pay, that it will be taken out of deposit at end of tenancy. It is stipulated in their tenancy agreements now.
    The only thing that I am certain of is that the entire landlord/tenant Irish Water setup is a mess.


    LL can show contract which has pps numbers of tenants if came to court. Bottom line is tenant pays


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    anvilfour wrote: »
    I for one will never pay, not one Euro, not one cent.

    If you wish to do so though, please feel free! :)

    That's OK, we'll pay for your water. Sorry to have been a nuisance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭JamBur


    So the landlord should subsidise your "protest"? Grow up, man up, and pay your way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,072 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    legally sounds like you dont have a leg to stand on. either go with them or face the consequences. best of luck with it. bit of a nightmare for everybody


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭hdowney


    emeldc wrote: »
    The OP isn't wrong. He may be liable for a water bill, but just not that water bill. It's not in his name FFS.
    If you get a bill with your address but someone else's name on it, would you pay it?

    here's the rub. the water bill is not in the tenants name. it is in the landlords. that's the first point. the second point is it clearly didn't even go to the tenants address (the house it is supposedly for) since this is the first the tenant knew of it. third point, the agent acting for the landlord is demanding payment of a bill that was in NO WAY addressed to the tenant, by simply telling the tenant you owe X. they will not even allow the tenant a copy of the bill which they are demanding the tenant pay.

    IF they want the tenant to pay for the water consumption used by him in the address they should arrange for Irish water to bill the tenant, in his name and to his address. THEN it is up to the tenant to pay it or not.

    I would not entertain the agent here simply because NOTHING is addressed to me, and they won't even give me a copy of the bill.
    This has nothing to do with paying/not paying water charges, I just wouldn't be paying somebody elses bill (which theoretically this is atm) especially without a copy myself.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    hdowney wrote: »
    here's the rub. the water bill is not in the tenants name. it is in the landlords. that's the first point. the second point is it clearly didn't even go to the tenants address (the house it is supposedly for) since this is the first the tenant knew of it. third point, the agent acting for the landlord is demanding payment of a bill that was in NO WAY addressed to the tenant, by simply telling the tenant you owe X. they will not even allow the tenant a copy of the bill which they are demanding the tenant pay.

    IF they want the tenant to pay for the water consumption used by him in the address they should arrange for Irish water to bill the tenant, in his name and to his address. THEN it is up to the tenant to pay it or not.

    I would not entertain the agent here simply because NOTHING is addressed to me, and they won't even give me a copy of the bill.
    This has nothing to do with paying/not paying water charges, I just wouldn't be paying somebody elses bill (which theoretically this is atm) especially without a copy myself.

    Also it appears the EA told the OP that they were being evicted. A notice of termination must be in writing and have all the required information. This could easily be overturned by the PRTB as an invalid eviction notice.


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