Getting evicted for boycotting Irish Water - Mod Warnings post #29, 95 & 108

daoruisce

Good day board members,

I am new to posting on forums and new to boards.ie however I felt that I had something worthwhile to let the world know.

Today Tuesday 28/04 my estate agent asked me to come into the office with my bank details, a bit odd I know. When in the office the agent took me into a quiet office and asked me about the water charges and if I had signed up yet. I told the agent no, I am against the water charges and am boycotting them. The agent showed me a bill the landlord had received from Irish water and was I going to pay it? I asked for a copy of the bill that was in her hand and was told I couldn't have one (it was about 65 euros for 90 days water). The agent then said if I don't pay I would be given notice to quit, I have two months left until my year lease is up and asked if I could stay until then. she said no, who was going to pay for the next two months water to which I said nothing "uncomfortable silence", The agent then said that I have 28 days from tomorrow.

All the bills are up to date (except Irish water), I have been a very good tenant and asked will I get my deposit back and was told that she will have to have a word with the landlord.

My rent is due in a week, I don't think I will pay it because I don't think i will get my deposit back and even if I do it will be minus the water charge.

I have gone home, read the lease and it does say "to pay all rates and water charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement", however, even after reading that am still shocked that I am being evicted for not paying the water charge.




Mod Warnings:
Post #29
Folks, I understand this is a sensitive issue and people are taking a stand, but here on Boards.ie we do not allow anyone to post advice that is legally dubious or against the law.

Please post constructively, on topic and within the remit of our charter and the forum. Any breaches of this warning will result in mod actions.

Post #95
Ok guys- please narrow your contributions to the Original Poster's query/quandry- and do not embark on a mad rambling thread about Irish Water. We have one of those already........

Post #108
Folks I don't know how many times a mod has to intervene here before you actually pay attention - this is not a general Water Charges discussion thread. This is a very specific issue related to the OP and their specific circumstances. If you can't post in relation to that then don't post at all.

Any further breaches of this rule will result in sanctions being applied, there will be no more warnings.

Dunford

you're kidding right?

Paulw

Well, if the lease says it, then you are liable, since you agreed to the terms.

Did the agent serve you an eviction notice properly, written with the full terms and dates?

You should still pay all your rent and bills. If you have a problem with the deposit, then you can lodge a complaint with the PRTB.

Kristopherus

Man up, pay the bill & get on with your life. You are going to have to pay water charges at some stage of your life, so you might as well get started now.

TheDriver

Moral high ground vs get kicked out for not paying bills?

emeldc

€65 for 3 months?

MightyMandarin

You're not being evicted for not paying the water charges, you're being evicted for breaching the terms of your lease.

You have to weigh up the consequences of each action yourself, but I honestly cannot see why you'd refuse to pay your landlord for the bill of a service which you use.

It's not fair on your landlord to force them to pay for your consumption.

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

€65 for 3 months?

Quarterly rate for more than on person occupancy.

BabysCoffee

It's not right to leave your landlord with an unpaid bill for water YOU used. Just pay up.

Gatling

Two choices pay up or (and can't believe I'm saying this )
Get on the the media .
The Hub
anti eviction groups and so on .

Just keep paying your rent in the mean time

Kermit.de.frog

No sympathy. You are being conned by certain groups in to not paying water charges.

Ask yourself where will those public representatives be when people like you get in to trouble?

No where to be seen.

Just pay your bills and save yourself needless hassle.

exgp

No sympathy either. Your landlord shouldn't be liable for any of your utilities.

Steve012

Like you said, don't pay last months rent, your unlikely to get ur deposit back..
Similar situation on a job we were working on. Single mother refused to pay water charges, so the landlord, (millionaire) not that that matters, Ff..d her out... :mad:

Steve012

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No sympathy. You are being conned by certain groups in to not paying water charges.

Ask yourself where will those public representatives be when people like you get in to trouble?

No where to be seen.

Just pay your bills and save yourself needless hassle.

lol so many sheep in this country... shame they can't be sheared and make some money from their wool..

Steve012

MightyMandarin wrote: »

You're not being evicted for not paying the water charges, you're being evicted for breaching the terms of your lease.

You have to weigh up the consequences of each action yourself, but I honestly cannot see why you'd refuse to pay your landlord for the bill of a service which you use.

It's not fair on your landlord to force them to pay for your consumption.

When would water charges be in the lease a year ago? huh?

Steve012

Steve012 wrote: »

Like you said, don't pay last months rent, your unlikely to get ur deposit back..
Similar situation on a job we were working on. Single mother refused to pay water charges, so the landlord, (millionaire) not that that matters, Ff..d her out... :mad:

Then what do you do when prospective new landlords ring previous ones looking for a reference? OP agreed to pay any future water charges, so must pay them.

athtrasna

Steve012 wrote: »

Like you said, don't pay last months rent, your unlikely to get ur deposit back..

Witholding of rent is illegal and is not condoned on this website. Please do not post again advocating this.

MightyMandarin

Steve012 wrote: »

When would water charges be in the lease a year ago? huh?

Did you even bother to read the OP?

The lease, as quoted by the OP, clearly states that he agrees "to pay all rates and water charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement" .

By signing the lease he agreed to the terms including this one. By not paying the water charge bill he is breaching the terms of the lease, and the landlord can evict him on this basis.

Help!!!!

If you rent you have to pay the water charges as you can get evicted
Best thing to do is pay up & use your vote to get this bloody government out in the next election

Eric Cartman

I would urge every landlord who visits this forum to put a clause in the lease about registering with IW and paying water charges, this carry on of 'cant pay won't pay' is completely unacceptable .

h2005

It's simple really pay the bill or move out. As you said it's clearly stated in the lease which you signed and agreed to adhere by.

gctest50

Steve012 wrote: »

lol so many sheep in this country... shame they can't be sheared and make some money from their wool..

would you let the OP stay in your place for a few weeks till they get sorted out with somewhere to live ?

since they stood up n we'rent sheared ?

galljga1

Steve012 wrote: »

When would water charges be in the lease a year ago? huh?

Foresight.

hollybolly

I would pay it immediately unless you want to look for another place to live with all the hassle that entails?

Timberrrrrrrr

And what will op do when they move into a new place and it's in the lease to pay the water charges? Renters need to understand that this will be a clause in every lease from here on.

syklops

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And what will op do when they move into a new place and it's in the lease to pay the water charges? Renters need to understand that this will be a clause in every lease from here on.

It already is a clause "Pay all bills". There is no need to add an additional clause, its covered by the first one.

gctest50

hollybolly wrote: »

I would pay it immediately unless you want to look for another place to live with all the hassle that entails?

no no no - i think if you get evicted for not paying your water charge

http://www.right2water.ie/

give you a new place to stay and come around with a van to help you move n stuff

might be wrong though

galljga1

gctest50 wrote: »

no no no - i think if you get evicted for not paying your water charge

http://www.right2water.ie/

give you a new place to stay and come around with a van to help you move n stuff

might be wrong though

I believe that is somewhere in a shed in middle ireland.

athtrasna

Folks, I understand this is a sensitive issue and people are taking a stand, but here on Boards.ie we do not allow anyone to post advice that is legally dubious or against the law.

Please post constructively, on topic and within the remit of our charter and the forum. Any breaches of this warning will result in mod actions.

foggy_lad

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Did you even bother to read the OP?

The lease, as quoted by the OP, clearly states that he agrees "to pay all rates and water charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement" .

By signing the lease he agreed to the terms including this one. By not paying the water charge bill he is breaching the terms of the lease, and the landlord can evict him on this basis.

h2005 wrote: »

It's simple really pay the bill or move out. As you said it's clearly stated in the lease which you signed and agreed to adhere by.

OP Have you received a bill in your name for Water?

How many flats or separate people are living in the building? Is this going to be the latest scam by rack-rent landlords where they get one single bill for all ten or more flats at an address but they charge all their tenants the bill amount and pocket the bill money? the bill you were shown is obviously for the landlord and is in his name so despite it being a condition of the lease it is not an enforceable condition as it would be unlawful to compel you to pay it.

Tell the agent that you will pay all bills in your name!

runawaybishop

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP Have you received a bill in your name for Water?

How many flats or separate people are living in the building? Is this going to be the latest scam by rack-rent landlords where they get one single bill for all ten or more flats at an address but they charge all their tenants the bill amount and pocket the bill money? the bill you were shown is obviously for the landlord and is in his name so despite it being a condition of the lease it is not an enforceable condition as it would be unlawful to compel you to pay it.

Tell the agent that you will pay all bills in your name!

What will taht do? LL can easily provide tenants name. Lease states all charges to be paid, either pay or get evicted and lose charge from deposit.

galljga1

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP Have you received a bill in your name for Water?

How many flats or separate people are living in the building? Is this going to be the latest scam by rack-rent landlords where they get one single bill for all ten or more flats at an address but they charge all their tenants the bill amount and pocket the bill money? the bill you were shown is obviously for the landlord and is in his name so despite it being a condition of the lease it is not an enforceable condition as it would be unlawful to compel you to pay it.

Tell the agent that you will pay all bills in your name!

Make foggy assumptions much?

runawaybishop

John Canyon wrote: »

Snip

That support and 1 euro will buy you a moro you can eat as you wait for your court appearance. People get evicted for non payment of services all the time.

Zaph

So you get evicted and somehow manage to find somewhere else to rent where your new landlord doesn't look for references from your current one. And several months down the road a water bill comes in the door. What then? Continue on an endless cycle of evictions and flat-hunting all because of a point of principle? As has already been mentioned, any future leases will oblige you to pay all bills, and some may explicitly mention water bills like your current one does. If you owned your own home you could take whatever stance you like and accept the consequences, but when you're renting you don't have that luxury. Someone else isn't going to pay your bills for you, and if you don't pay up they're going to evict you from their property and find a new tenant who will pay their bills. It really is as simple as that.

The_Conductor

gctest50 wrote: »

no no no - i think if you get evicted for not paying your water charge

http://www.right2water.ie/

give you a new place to stay and come around with a van to help you move n stuff

might be wrong though

Comedian.....

The current law- as it stands- is that the owner of the property is liable for the water charges. There is an amendment to the Act in the works at the moment- and its expected to be enacted before the Dáil rises for the summer recess. According to the Minister it will enable landlords withold any non-paid water bills from deposits- and it suggests that Irish Water will have an preferred status when the deposit is being witheld (i.e. Irish Water will be paid from tenant's deposits, before any other deductions from deposits take place). The Irish Landlord and Tenant's Associations- have, rather uniquely, united in protest against this proposal- however, its still there- unless the Minister decides otherwise.

So- Landlord is currently liable- however, the onus is on the tenant- and the legislation has not been amended yet, to remove any charges a landlord may put on the deposit in lieu of the non-payment of water bills.

Essentially- you are going to pay for your water in one manner, or another. If you're not willing to pay it upfront (which also enables you to claim the bribe- the 100 Euro rebate)- it gets deducted from your deposit in full- and you get no rebate.

You may not like Irish Water- as do many others. Its a utility. Water is a utility. Traditionally we paid for it via our income tax system. Now- instead- we're paying directly, and will, in turn, receive a rebate (of 100 per year on a 250 Euro bill) and hopefully tax cuts.

emeldc

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP Have you received a bill in your name for Water?

How many flats or separate people are living in the building? Is this going to be the latest scam by rack-rent landlords where they get one single bill for all ten or more flats at an address but they charge all their tenants the bill amount and pocket the bill money? the bill you were shown is obviously for the landlord and is in his name so despite it being a condition of the lease it is not an enforceable condition as it would be unlawful to compel you to pay it.

Tell the agent that you will pay all bills in your name!

For once foggy I have to say that I agree with you. The whole landlord/tenant/water thing is a fiasco. There was someone on the radio the other day saying that they didn't know who would ultimately be saddled with the bill. As far as I know there is nothing in law that says either is ultimately liable. Probably the tenant but who's going to chase him. There is also the issue of the €100 'voucher'. Who gets that in this case, tenant or landlord.

emeldc

The_Conductor wrote: »

Comedian.....

The current law- as it stands- is that the owner of the property is liable for the water charges. There is an amendment to the Act in the works at the moment- and its expected to be enacted before the Dáil rises for the summer recess. According to the Minister it will enable landlords withold any non-paid water bills from deposits- and it suggests that Irish Water will have an preferred status when the deposit is being witheld (i.e. Irish Water will be paid from tenant's deposits, before any other deductions from deposits take place). The Irish Landlord and Tenant's Associations- have, rather uniquely, united in protest against this proposal- however, its still there- unless the Minister decides otherwise.

So- Landlord is currently liable- however, the onus is on the tenant- and the legislation has not been amended yet, to remove any charges a landlord may put on the deposit in lieu of the non-payment of water bills.

Essentially- you are going to pay for your water in one manner, or another. If you're not willing to pay it upfront (which also enables you to claim the bribe- the 100 Euro rebate)- it gets deducted from your deposit in full- and you get no rebate.

You may not like Irish Water- as do many others. Its a utility. Water is a utility. Traditionally we paid for it via our income tax system. Now- instead- we're paying directly, and will, in turn, receive a rebate (of 100 per year on a 250 Euro bill) and hopefully tax cuts.

That's great. Everyone in the Dail is assuming that there will be a deposit left at the end in which to make said deductions. Tenants are not stupid.
I will pay my water charges but I will never pay a utility bill for my tenant.

Victor

daoruisce wrote: »

I have gone home, read the lease and it does say "to pay all rates and water charges (if any) relating to the property including any which are imposed after the date of this agreement", however, even after reading that am still shocked that I am being evicted for not paying the water charge.

Ghandi told his followers that if they wished to engage in civil disobedience, that they must be willing to take the consequences.

Arbiter of Good Taste

OP it's very easy to be principled when someone else is left with your bill, isn't it? Get out and buy your own house if you want to take a stand. You signed a lease agreeing to pay your water bill. So pay it or be evicted. You are not a victim in this scenario.

foggy_lad

The_Conductor wrote: »

Comedian.....

The current law- as it stands- is that the owner of the property is liable for the water charges.

The owner is fully liable BUT only until they inform Irish Water that there is a tenant in the property, once that happens the landlord can't be charged for any period they show that there was tenants living in the property!

There is an amendment to the Act in the works at the moment- and its expected to be enacted before the Dáil rises for the summer recess. According to the Minister it will enable landlords withold any non-paid water bills from deposits- and it suggests that Irish Water will have an preferred status when the deposit is being witheld (i.e. Irish Water will be paid from tenant's deposits, before any other deductions from deposits take place). The Irish Landlord and Tenant's Associations- have, rather uniquely, united in protest against this proposal- however, its still there- unless the Minister decides otherwise.

Such an ammendment will never pass as it would not be constitutional.

So- Landlord is currently liable- however, the onus is on the tenant- and the legislation has not been amended yet, to remove any charges a landlord may put on the deposit in lieu of the non-payment of water bills.

once any landlord informs irish water of the name of their tenant they are no longer in any way liable for water taxes for their property even if the charges remain unpaid and they want to sell the property!

Essentially- you are going to pay for your water in one manner, or another. If you're not willing to pay it upfront (which also enables you to claim the bribe- the 100 Euro rebate)- it gets deducted from your deposit in full- and you get no rebate.

all this talk of stealing from deposits and other nonsense is straight from the mouths of the many ministers who have made nonsense statements about how the water taxes were going to be collected and how people can be forced to pay.

If you rent a house your landlord can not be chased up by the gas or electricity company or by the phone company if you do a bunk owing them thousands! Irish Water is exactly the same and any kind of favouritism towards them will be shot down by lawyers and also by Europe as it will be anti-competitive.

You may not like Irish Water- as do many others. Its a utility. Water is a utility. Traditionally we paid for it via our income tax system. Now- instead- we're paying directly, and will, in turn, receive a rebate (of 100 per year on a 250 Euro bill) and hopefully tax cuts.

But if a person does not pay there is very little that can be done apart from taking them individually through the courts as they have already stated they will not be cutting the supply!

foggy_lad

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

OP it's very easy to be principled when someone else is left with your bill, isn't it? Get out and buy your own house if you want to take a stand. You signed a lease agreeing to pay your water bill. So pay it or be evicted. You are not a victim in this scenario.

Whatever about paying your own water bill OP make sure you do not pay any bill in someone elses name! if the landlord wants the bill paid by you then it must be in your name!

NIMAN

The absence of the OP since Page1 of this thread perhaps points out that they know that they are in the wrong.

ukoda

I'm always a bit suspicious when people start a post with "i was asked to do something weird but i didn't question it and went along with it blindly"

theres no hope in hell id go to a letting agents office for a meeting with no idea of what its about and my bank details in my pocket without asking a single question.

johnnyskeleton

Zaph wrote: »

So you get evicted and somehow manage to find somewhere else to rent where your new landlord doesn't look for references from your current one. And several months down the road a water bill comes in the door. What then? Continue on an endless cycle of evictions and flat-hunting all because of a point of principle?

I suppose he could find a property with fluvial rights and a septic tank. Or set up a private water company. Or buy bottled water.

emeldc

NIMAN wrote: »

The absence of the OP since Page1 of this thread perhaps points out that they know that they are in the wrong.

The OP isn't wrong. He may be liable for a water bill, but just not that water bill. It's not in his name FFS.
If you get a bill with your address but someone else's name on it, would you pay it?

InTheTrees

emeldc wrote: »

The OP isn't wrong. He may be liable for a water bill, but just not that water bill. It's not in his name FFS.
If you get a bill with your address but someone else's name on it, would you pay it?

I wouldnt fixate too much on names. The lease says the tennant is liable for bills and charges.

He would have to prove he didn't use any of the water to avoid liability.

NIMAN

The OP must be out flat hunting.

endacl

TheDriver wrote: »

Moronic high ground vs get kicked out for not paying bills?

Better.

endacl

NIMAN wrote: »

The absence of the OP since Page1 of this thread perhaps points out that they know that they are in the wrong.

Or....

Why would he have to pay water charges living under a bridge?

galljga1

endacl wrote: »

Or....

Why would he have to pay water charges living under a bridge?

Nice one.

uck51js9zml2yt

endacl wrote: »

Or....

Why would he have to pay water charges living under a bridge?

Only if he used the water.