Bus Strike (read warning in post #1)

Hilly Bill

stehyl15 wrote: »

Oh I always thought CIE was a closed shop

You thought wrong.

Hilly Bill

stehyl15 wrote: »

You could always go to Pakistan and get cheap labour to drive dublin buses for cheap

The cost of transporting the buses to Pakistan would be huge .

Hilly Bill

Whats needed is private buses operating on a cash only routes ( No leap cards and no free travel ) . Routes could be designed as to fill gaps in existing routes and times.
One example could be on the 39 route from Clonsilla into town. Start at around St Josephs hospital, clonsilla village and then straight down the Clonsilla road into Blanch village, Avoiding the Hartstown loop and the shopping centre. Straight down the Navan road but instead of then turning down towards Manor street and the quays it would go straight down towards phibsborough and then either turn right at the Mater and down O'connell street or right at the Big tree onto Dorset street then down to O'connell street.
This one could fill the gap in the 39 timetable and train times from Clonsilla. Main point is that no existing Dublin Bus route would be cut .

stehyl15

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats needed is private buses operating on a cash only routes ( No leap cards and no free travel ) . Routes could be designed as to fill gaps in existing routes and times.
One example could be on the 39 route from Clonsilla into town. Start at around St Josephs hospital, clonsilla village and then straight down the Clonsilla road into Blanch village, Avoiding the Hartstown loop and the shopping centre. Straight down the Navan road but instead of then turning down towards Manor street and the quays it would go straight down towards phibsborough and then either turn right at the Mater and down O'connell street or right at the Big tree onto Dorset street then down to O'connell street.
This one could fill the gap in the 39 timetable and train times from Clonsilla. Main point is that no existing Dublin Bus route would be cut .

That would be a step back not a step forward because we've spent years trying to bring out intagrated ticketing and now you think they should start having certain buses that don't accept them. Sure the Wexford Bus and Swords Express accept them don't see why they can't under your proposal pity the Aircoach dosen't. Not really a fan of buses running on a free for all market we have towards intagrated transport wheter it be public or privatised. Sure if thats the the case you could one 145 going to Ballywaltrim and a private one going to Balbriggan. Have heard that has happened in the UK outside of London but even there its become more intagrated.

Hilly Bill

Unless they are going to be different then you might as well just stick a Dublin Bus sticker on the side of them.

stehyl15

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Unless they are going to be different then you might as well just stick a Dublin Bus sticker on the side of them.

No you mean an NTA sticker personally I think that if you want to operate public transport in the greater dublin area accepting leap cards should be one of the conditions of liencensing by the NTA

stehyl15

Whats their problem with working a private operator i mean their still going to get paid

punisher5112

stehyl15 wrote: »

Whats their problem with working a private operator i mean their still going to get paid

Private operators are no different pay themselves and management crazy money and the hard workers on the ground paid buttons.

Look at any of the private operators running here.
There is a huge amount of corruption and back handers going on.

stehyl15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Private operators are no different pay themselves and management crazy money and the hard workers on the ground paid buttons

But would it not be illegal to reduce their pay also would there not be capacity for them to work within the CIE group

hmmm

Isn't it crazy that our government can't implement a transport policy without first holding negotiations with the DB unions?

This is the usual annual DB strike. Meanwhile we'll have the apologists telling us how wonderful the service is, and how glad we should be as commuters that we are allowed the privilege of travelling on DB and not having to suffer under a private operator - like the LUAS, the best public transport system in the country.

It doesn't matter anyway - the unions know the government will fold, and they'll be paid off. Neither of them care about taxpayer money.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

Isn't it crazy that our government can't implement a transport policy without first holding negotiations with the DB unions?

no . its the workers who have to implement it, so if dialogue means any potential issues and worries can be sorted out via meaningful dialogue, then good.

hmmm wrote: »

This is the usual annual DB strike. Meanwhile we'll have the apologists telling us how wonderful the service is

what "apologists" . being against tendering does not make one a dublin bus "apologist"

hmmm wrote: »

how glad we should be as commuters that we are allowed the privilege of travelling on DB and not having to suffer under a private operator - like the LUAS, the best public transport system in the country.

you don't have to be glad of anything if you don't want to. the reason the luas is the best public transport system in the country is because of the RPA, not because its privately run. i believe the RPA functions over luas will transfer to the NTA, anyone confirm.

antoinolachtnai

punisher5112 wrote: »

Private operators are no different pay themselves and management crazy money and the hard workers on the ground paid buttons.

If the numbers given in this thread true, much the same is going on at Dublin Bus.

According to other posters, Dublin Bus drivers are getting paid a lot less what the average employee gets paid in that company, even though they comprise the vast majority of the workforce. This suggests that some people are very highly paid indeed.

Look at any of the private operators running here.
There is a huge amount of corruption and back handers going on.

I hope you have reported the corruption you have observed to the Garda.

cdebru

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If the numbers given in this thread true, much the same is going on at Dublin Bus.

According to other posters, Dublin Bus drivers are getting paid a lot less what the average employee gets paid in that company, even though they comprise the vast majority of the workforce. This suggests that some people are very highly paid indeed.



I hope you have reported the corruption you have observed to the Garda.

Except your post as usual doesn't stand up on an average driver wage of 40k with approx 2200 drivers that is €88m which is about 60% of the total wage bill of €147m. So drivers make up about 70% of total staff and about 60% of total wages, given that the rest of staff would include inspectors, supervisors, managers, craftspeople, executives, etc etc you wouldn't expect any of them to be earning less than drivers would you ? I presume when you were running your bus company you didn't get paid less than your drivers did you ?

cdebru

hmmm wrote: »

Isn't it crazy that our government can't implement a transport policy without first holding negotiations with the DB unions?

This is the usual annual DB strike. Meanwhile we'll have the apologists telling us how wonderful the service is, and how glad we should be as commuters that we are allowed the privilege of travelling on DB and not having to suffer under a private operator - like the LUAS, the best public transport system in the country.

It doesn't matter anyway - the unions know the government will fold, and they'll be paid off. Neither of them care about taxpayer money.

So the people currently working in DB and BE, should just shut up and forget and their pension, forget about whether they transfer to another employer, forget about on what basis they transfer, forget about if any prospective future employer will do a Greyhound on them.

Or maybe the government when formulating this policy should have looked at the implications for all stakeholders including current staff, and addressed those issues rather than a couple of weeks before the tender interest date no one actually knows any details as regards to what will happen to current staff.

hmmm

cdebru wrote: »

So the people currently working in DB and BE, should just shut up and forget and their pension

How about they stop using the travelling public as pawns - yet again.

I long for the day when we're no longer held to ransom by Dublin bus unions.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

How about they stop using the travelling public as pawns - yet again.

if dialogue doesn't work, then withdrawing your labour is the only way. if that means you are "used as pawns" then if it means they go back around the table, its worth the one day. its why dialogue is important.

hmmm wrote: »

I long for the day when we're no longer held to ransom by Dublin bus unions.

well, i don't see a day where there won't be unions in transport companies in ireland. your not held to ransom. you can walk, cycle, bring the car. there are plenty of options while the odd one day strike is happening. also, just to throw it in, privatization/tendering/private operators doesn't mean no strikes.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

just to throw it in, privatization/tendering/private operators doesn't mean no strikes.

When was there last a strike in a privately run transport operator in Ireland? Between Ryanair, Luas, Aircoach, GoBus, etc., I can't recall any at all.

stehyl15

end of the road wrote: »

well, i don't see a day where there won't be unions in transport companies in ireland. your not held to ransom. you can walk, cycle, bring the car. there are plenty of options while the odd one day strike is happening. also, just to throw it in, privatization/tendering/private operators doesn't mean no strikes.

The last wasn't just a one day strike it was three days think of the elderly, the disabled, schoolchildren, people who rely on public transport to get to work altough its not as bad France or Italy where they go on strike nearly every month but there they will work around strikes to minimize distruption for example they guarantee certain peak services to operate regardless of industrial action. We should really do this in case of industrial action. Even hire in temporary staff while there is a strike going on no point if its only a one day strike obivously but if its say an allout strike it might be a suggestion. Sure remember they usedto call in the army every time there was a bus strike in the days before H+S.

devnull

It's not so simple as hiring temporary staff, even if they could, there would certainly be intimidation at the very least from the workers who were on strike which would make life hard or unattractive for the temporary guys.

end of the road

stehyl15 wrote: »

The last wasn't just a one day strike it was three days think of the elderly, the disabled, schoolchildren, people who rely on public transport to get to work altough its not as bad France or Italy where they go on strike nearly every month but there they will work around strikes to minimize distruption for example they guarantee certain peak services to operate regardless of industrial action. We should really do this in case of industrial action. Even hire in temporary staff while there is a strike going on no point if its only a one day strike obivously but if its say an allout strike it might be a suggestion. Sure remember they usedto call in the army every time there was a bus strike in the days before H+S.

since when was the last 1 3 days. temporary staff aren't an option. not going to happen. proper dialogue to avoid the strike in the first place is always the best course of action. one can always plan around a strike 1 day or not. they give a good bit of notice.

Captain Chaos

IMO, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail need to broken up and privatised and it's along time over due. One only has to look at the level of service provided by the private operators in this county can compare across the board. If Irish rail go in on this strike too I will have to ask my boss for a taxi fare to and from work on that day. I'm sure they will be only too happy to give me €40 that will more than likely have to come from my pocket because of the jobs for the boys club is still in operation.

Dublin Bus and Irish Rail have it too easy and need to competition to wake them up and cut the fat cat wages at the top.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

IMO, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail need to broken up and privatised and it's along time over due. One only has to look at the level of service provided by the private operators in this county can compare across the board.

okay so. how are we going to break up irish rail. what private company is going to come in and run our little network. where are we going to get the money to pay them, as they will rightly be looking to make a proffit. will these private companies be expected to invest back into our network. sorry, but its a non runner. much easier to force reform on irish rail, which can be done by the NTA doing their job and enforcing minimum standards. also, just because the private services at the moment might be decent, doesn't mean a private monopoly or a couple of minny monopolies mean were going to get a better service. that goes for dublin bus also.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Dublin Bus and Irish Rail have it too easy and need to competition to wake them up and cut the fat cat wages at the top.

what "competition" we won't be getting competition. people seem to miss understand this. also, where is the paths going to come from on our rail network for the mountains of private operators some expect to come into our railways? bellmont finding a market and rightly going after it doesn't mean were going to have private operators over the shop i'm afraid. to be honest, i don't want us to end up like the uk, apart from the investment of course. i agree management aren't worth what they are payed.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

since when was the last 1 3 days.

Sigh....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89482414&postcount=358

peppa pig wrote:

Since they went out on the first day, then they went out on the second day, on the third day they went out, it was resolved, and they went back to work on the fourth day.

It was a 3 day strike, not 3 one day strikes.

They first went out on Sunday August 04 2013 and went back fully on Wednesday August 07 2013.

RainyDay

clunked wrote: »

A very considered response, thank you!

Listening to RTE 1 radio this morning, a representative from the private operators more or less admitted that it would result in lower wages for drivers. As the NTA tender documents seemed to suggest that a tendering company needed to have a turnover over €40 million per anum, you would have only multinational companies or CIE group companies.

The unions are only defending the legitimate rights of their members.

Are the tender documents available online anywhere? I had a look at etenders.gov.ie, but the documents seemed to be restricted there.

antoinolachtnai

cdebru wrote: »

Except your post as usual doesn't stand up on an average driver wage of 40k with approx 2200 drivers that is €88m which is about 60% of the total wage bill of €147m. So drivers make up about 70% of total staff and about 60% of total wages, given that the rest of staff would include inspectors, supervisors, managers, craftspeople, executives, etc etc you wouldn't expect any of them to be earning less than drivers would you ?

If everybody at Dublin Bus who isn't a driver (clerical staff, mechanics, cleaners as well as a very small cadre of management) expects to be paid more than a driver, then it's not surprising that there is a problem with costs and it's not surprising that drivers aren't happy.

end of the road

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If everybody at Dublin Bus who isn't a driver (clerical staff, mechanics, cleaners as well as a very small cadre of management) expects to be paid more than a driver, then it's not surprising that there is a problem with costs and it's not surprising that drivers aren't happy.

are those staff bar management expecting to be payed more then drivers? i don't see it. aren't management usually payed more then staff?

cdebru

hmmm wrote: »

How about they stop using the travelling public as pawns - yet again.

I long for the day when we're no longer held to ransom by Dublin bus unions.

How are you being held to ransom ? They are working if they have a grievance as a last resort they have a right to withdraw their labour same as any other worker.

hmmm

cdebru wrote: »

How are you being held to ransom ? They are working if they have a grievance as a last resort they have a right to withdraw their labour same as any other worker.

This is a monopoly public transport service and the workers are in a privileged position. If the workers want to give up their monopoly, they can go on strike all they want.

Don't be getting smart with me, you know full well that the only reason they are so strike-happy is because they know full well the amount of inconvenience they can cause.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

This is a monopoly public transport service and the workers are in a privileged position.

and? will you be applying for the dublin bus driving jobs that are being looked for, or have they closed the application process.

hmmm wrote: »

If the workers want to give up their monopoly, they can go on strike all they want.

or, they can go on strike as they are entitled to just like many other workers without giving up the necessary monopoly they have to have.

hmmm wrote: »

Don't be getting smart with me

or what.

hmmm wrote: »

you know full well that the only reason they are so strike-happy is because they know full well the amount of inconvenience they can cause.

we know nothing of the sort. we do know they aren't strike happy, their strikes causing inconvenience are a boness but thats it.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

When was there last a strike in a privately run transport operator in Ireland? Between Ryanair, Luas, Aircoach, GoBus, etc., I can't recall any at all.

Well life must be perfect in those companies so.