Should I convert?

eviltwin

LorMal wrote: »

Xenophobia is the dislike or prejudice against people from other countries. I am not supporting xenophobia at all - in fact I resent the allegation and I suggest you withdraw it. Also, your effort to suppress my free speech is somewhat worrying in a discussion forum, no?
My point is that any religion practitioners who are not prepared to accept the norms of our society, but attempt instead to change them (by of example trying to coax a vunerable woman to convert), should not be welcome.
It is a perfectly legitimate point of view, based on the ideals of secularism (as promulgated in France for example) and should not be confused with xenophobia - which I hate.

I've encountered many an Irish Catholic who would do the same to a vulnerable person and try to get them to convert. It's nothing to do with Islam or ethnicity...don't you know many Muslims are in fact Irish? Free speech comes with responsibility, you can't just say whatever you like and hide behind free speech.

galljga1

LorMal wrote: »

Xenophobia is the dislike or prejudice against people from other countries. I am not supporting xenophobia at all - in fact I resent the allegation and I suggest you withdraw it. Also, your effort to suppress my free speech is somewhat worrying in a discussion forum, no?
My point is that any religion practitioners who are not prepared to accept the norms of our society, but attempt instead to change them (by of example trying to coax a vunerable woman to convert), should not be welcome.
It is a perfectly legitimate point of view, based on the ideals of secularism (as promulgated in France for example) and should not be confused with xenophobia - which I hate.

There is also an effort to coax this woman to christianity from within this country. Although this is within the 'norms' of our society, I consider this to be wrong, thus I am calling on all christians to leave this country as i don't like it.

LorMal

eviltwin wrote: »

I've encountered many an Irish Catholic who would do the same to a vulnerable person and try to get them to convert. It's nothing to do with Islam or ethnicity...don't you know many Muslims are in fact Irish? Free speech comes with responsibility, you can't just say whatever you like and hide behind free speech.

I am expressing my opinion, that's all. No need to start a book burning. Have you really encountered lots of Catholics trying to convert vulnerable women? Where?

LorMal

galljga1 wrote: »

There is also an effort to coax this woman to christianity from within this country. Although this is within the 'norms' of our society, I consider this to be wrong, thus I am calling on all christians to leave this country as i don't like it.

Where is the effort to coax this woman to Christianity?

eviltwin

LorMal wrote: »

I am expressing my opinion, that's all. No need to start a book burning. Have you really encountered lots of Catholics trying to convert vulnerable women? Where?

Just visit any of the Christian run groups dedicated to helping the vulnerable, people with addictions, women with crisis pregnancies, people with mental health issues......

LorMal

eviltwin wrote: »

Just visit any of the Christian run groups dedicated to helping the vulnerable, people with addictions, women with crisis pregnancies, people with mental health issues......

You are against groups helping the vulnerable, people with addictions, women with crisis pregnancies, people with mental health issues?

eviltwin

LorMal wrote: »

You are against groups helping the vulnerable, people with addictions, women with crisis pregnancies, people with mental health issues?

I'm not against anyone offering help to those who need it. I am against groups doing it with an agenda. If a Muslim group did it there would be outrage. We are just so used to Christian groups doing it that we've become immune to it.

galljga1

LorMal wrote: »

Where is the effort to coax this woman to Christianity?

I don't plan on re-reading the entire thread but Niamhstokes, I believe, is the username of one particular contributor who among other things was advocating studying the secrets of fatima rather than islam. There are others but as I said, I am not going to trawl the thread.

LorMal

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not against anyone offering help to those who need it. I am against groups doing it with an agenda. If a Muslim group did it there would be outrage. We are just so used to Christian groups doing it that we've become immune to it.

Here we go. It's okay for your man to coax this woman to convert. But it's not okay for a Christian organisation to offer to help people ( irrespective of their religion).
Right on.

LorMal

galljga1 wrote: »

I don't plan on re-reading the entire thread but Niamhstokes, I believe, is the username of one particular contributor who among other things was advocating studying the secrets of fatima rather than islam. There are others but as I said, I am not going to trawl the thread.

If you're not prepared to trawl the thread, please don't quote it to counter my point of view then

eviltwin

LorMal wrote: »

Here we go. It's okay for your man to coax this woman to convert. But it's not okay for a Christian organisation to offer to help people ( irrespective of their religion).
Right on.

Read the thread, I've posted repeatedly that the last thing this lady needs is a religious conversion. I think it's highly irresponsible of boards to allow these threads. This lady needs the Personal Issues forum, not Religion.

galljga1

LorMal wrote: »

Here we go. It's okay for your man to coax this woman to convert. But it's not okay for a Christian organisation to offer to help people ( irrespective of their religion).
Right on.

I am not speaking for my evil twin but personally, I believe all organised religion is unnecessary, therefore any effort to coax, convert or whatever is wrong to me. If some of these religions were started from scratch today, they would be laughed out of town although I continue to be surprised that people are still joining scientology, not exactly sure why I singled that particular one out for comment.

galljga1

LorMal wrote: »

If you're not prepared to trawl the thread, please don't quote it to counter my point of view then

Strange post given that I have countered your point of view and provided the username of one person that has openly admitted in her posts on this thread to assisting in the conversion of three ex-muslims. Apologies for not re-reading every post and providing directions to other users who have given their opinions that christianity of whatever flavour is where the OP should be looking. Perhaps you could read them yourself.

Tom Dunne

LorMal wrote: »

Xenophobia is the dislike or prejudice against people from other countries. I am not supporting xenophobia at all - in fact I resent the allegation and I suggest you withdraw it. Also, your effort to suppress my free speech is somewhat worrying in a discussion forum, no?

I'm not withdrawing it any comment. And I suggest you enlighten yourself on the whole concept of free speech and how it applies on this website.

And I also suggest you read the charter of the forum and rules of Boards.ie. Specifically the part about questioning moderator's decisions on thread.

Tom Dunne

Seriously people, this is a discussion about conversion from one faith to another.

If Islam or Muslims really bother you that much then perhaps this isn't the forum for you.

LorMal

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Seriously people, this is a discussion about conversion from one faith to another.

If Islam or Muslims really bother you that much then perhaps this isn't the forum for you.

You are deleting posts that object to you making false accusations of xenophobia, misrepresenting opinions that you disagree with. My point is completely valid and you are refusing to let it stand.
To reiterate - those who choose to live in a western secular society should be obliged to repect our principals of democracy, equality and social liberalism.
A Christian missionary would not last 15 seconds attempting to convert women in Saudi Arabia - in fact they would possibly be executed. And yet, if I express disquiet about this attempt to convert a vunerable woman to a life of a medieval chattel, you call me xenophobic.
Our freedom is precious. We cannot be passive when others seek to subvert it. We need to challenge them and to firmly assert our position - we hold these truths to be self evident - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Brother.

Tom Dunne

LorMal wrote: »

You are deleting posts that object to you making false accusations of xenophobia, misrepresenting opinions that you disagree with. My point is completely valid and you are refusing to let it stand.
To reiterate - those who choose to live in a western secular society should be obliged to repect our principals of democracy, equality and social liberalism.
A Christian missionary would not last 15 seconds attempting to convert women in Saudi Arabia - in fact they would possibly be executed. And yet, if I express disquiet about this attempt to convert a vunerable woman to a life of a medieval chattel, you call me xenophobic.
Our freedom is precious. We cannot be passive when others seek to subvert it. We need to challenge them and to firmly assert our position - we hold these truths to be self evident - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Brother.

Enough. Take a holiday.

Chemical Byrne

Why on earth would you want to convert to islam? No offense but the harsh reality of it is if you choose to go down this road expect to lose a lot of friends. Have you told your friends and family? What to they think about it? Have you considered how it will affect them?

Again I'm not trying to be offensive here OP but imho if I, a Tipperary fella 28m, were to tell my gf, family and friends that I was seriously considering converting to Islam I'd be laughed out of the room, told to get off the stage and to cop myself on! And I can imagine how awkward it would make things for my family having to explain to family friends that I'd joined the circus. I can imagine how that would go:

Family friend: Oh and be jaypers how's John'een keeping these days? Where's he at it now? Tis a long way he's come from stacking bales as a young lad!
CB's mammy: Ah well, hehe, you see he went and converted to Islam you see.
Family friend:...........Oh! Right!...........Riiiight..............Jaysus, tis fierce weather out isn't it?


It is also somewhat selfish of you. You are going to make life unnecessarily difficult for your child by becoming a muslim, why would you want to do that? You're also singling yourself out in a big way. You're abandoning your normal native culture and trying to get into Islamic culture. Now you don't fully belong to either of them - that will be stressful and hard on you.

All these things you say you want are nothing to do with religion, you can achieve those by just getting your act together and doing them.

Sorry if I sound like I'm having a go at you OP but, quite frankly, I think it is a ridiculous proposition for a born and bred Irish person to convert to Islam. I'd urge you to reconsider what is the most sensible and responsible thing to do here.

And to the person who said you can't back out of Islam - why not? Unlike many Islamic countries, it's actually a free country here. You don't like, you just back out, stop going and get on with your life. If clerics or other members give you grief you go file a complaint of harassment with the Gardai.

Apologies for my tone, but I honestly think this is just plain and utter ludicrous.

eviltwin

LorMal wrote: »

You are deleting posts that object to you making false accusations of xenophobia, misrepresenting opinions that you disagree with. My point is completely valid and you are refusing to let it stand.
To reiterate - those who choose to live in a western secular society should be obliged to repect our principals of democracy, equality and social liberalism.
A Christian missionary would not last 15 seconds attempting to convert women in Saudi Arabia - in fact they would possibly be executed. And yet, if I express disquiet about this attempt to convert a vunerable woman to a life of a medieval chattel, you call me xenophobic.
Our freedom is precious. We cannot be passive when others seek to subvert it. We need to challenge them and to firmly assert our position - we hold these truths to be self evident - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Brother.

Why are you comparing us to Saudi? This is Ireland, we have a totally different ethos here. If I want to stand on O'Connell St and preach about whatever religion I want I can do so. I'd probably be jailed or worse in Saudi but I don't live in Saudi, I live in Ireland. Its perfectly legal for anyone of any faith or none to talk about it, promote it, encourage others to join it.

This is the Islam forum, I think you'd find the same reaction if you went onto any of the other religious forums and put down their faiths in the same way.

Tom Dunne

Gentle nudge back towards topic

Kalman

eviltwin wrote: »

Why are you comparing us to Saudi? This is Ireland, we have a totally different ethos here. If I want to stand on O'Connell St and preach about whatever religion I want I can do so. I'd probably be jailed or worse in Saudi but I don't live in Saudi, I live in Ireland. Its perfectly legal for anyone of any faith or none to talk about it, promote it, encourage others to join it.

This is the Islam forum, I think you'd find the same reaction if you went onto any of the other religious forums and put down their faiths in the same way.

Is he not entitled to his opinion ?

eviltwin

Kalman wrote: »

Is he not entitled to his opinion ?

He is but remember your audience. Do you think I'll be entertained if I go onto the Hunting forum with an animal rights post or talk about cooking burgers in the Vegetarian forum? Debate and discussion is one thing but most of the posts here are just uneducated and offensive and designed to start an argument.

Kalman

eviltwin wrote: »

He is but remember your audience. Do you think I'll be entertained if I go onto the Hunting forum with an animal rights post or talk about cooking burgers in the Vegetarian forum? Debate and discussion is one thing but most of the posts here are just uneducated and offensive and designed to start an argument.

I disagree! It is free speech, we are not all conformist. The censor is rather overzealous regarding this thread, which leads one to draw their own conclusions as to why>>>he, of course, is faceless !!

eviltwin

Kalman wrote: »

I disagree! It is free speech, we are not all conformist. The censor is rather overzealous regarding this thread, which leads one to draw their own conclusions as to why>>>he, of course, is faceless !!

I think he has been very fair considering. And of course he is faceless, its an internet forum :rolleyes:

Chemical Byrne

Would people stop bickering over censoring, free speech and the what ifs of being in another country. None of it is relevant to the OPs query. Maybe ye should take the handbagging PM

Eircom_Sucks

i'd be banned of i speak my mind

so much for having an opinion

endacl

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

i'd be banned of i speak my mind

so much for having an opinion

There are loads of places you can speak your mind. Have you considered a blog?

Eircom_Sucks

endacl wrote: »

There are loads of places you can speak your mind. Have you considered a blog?

i'd get banned off my own blog for my opinion lol

Chemical Byrne

Ah ffs, this threat has degenerated to bollox. I'm done. <unfollows>

Tom Dunne

Kalman wrote: »

I disagree! It is free speech, we are not all conformist. The censor is rather overzealous regarding this thread, which leads one to draw their own conclusions as to why>>>he, of course, is faceless !!

Congratulations, you are a winner! The prize? A holiday from this forum.