Should I convert?

Spirogyra

hamza81 wrote: »

When I said that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world I meant by conversion not birth.

In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity” (Guinness World Records 2003, pg 102)

In the west in the Uk, Europe and the Americas more people are converting to Islam than any other faith or belief on the face of this Earth most of them women.

You can copy and paste one story of an "ex Muslim" and I can paste you tens of stories from those who have converted to Islam from their own accounts.

You say I am "urging" conversion. Well from reading your posts in this thread you are "urging" her not to convert.

So I am wrong If I urge her to convert but you are right if you urge her not to? Talk about double standards.

Your comments in this thread wreak of ignorance and intolerance.

There may be a lot more stories of people who left Islam if they were not in fear of making their stories public, that is reality, because Islam punishes people who leave, at best through social isolation and potentially much worse, because it simply doesn't allow people to think for themselves, that's reality

For the same reason there is no statistics on those who have left Islam

I am urging her to make up her own mind, about her own belief system whatever that may be, who know's, it might in the end be Islam, (I don't think Islam make's the least bit of sense, it's an intolerant faith, which seeks to control) but she should not rush to such a conclusion, as you are urging, because there is no easy way out, you are being grossly irresponsible and again I don't believe such is appropriate on Boards.ie

It should not be a 'crime' to be intolerant of an incredibly intolerant doctrine (and I am not speaking from a position of ignorance)

bpmurray

While people here are talking about you converting to Islam, I think it's important to understand that this is a one-way transition. If you wish to leave Islam, the official punishment for this apostasy is death.

Terrontress

Hamza has a point in that if she believes in Allah as the only god and Mohamed as his prophet then conversion is just a formality, she already is a Muslim.

It seems to me that this girl is quite vulnerable at present and shouldn't make any decisions for a while. Taking up a religion just to find a man is wrong on many levels.

hamza81

athtrasna wrote: »

You should like a large number of Irish women drawn to Islam, for all the wrong reasons. Have you considered other religions. For meaning and support consider Buddhism, a much more positive religion that accepts you as you are.

So anyone drawn towards Islam is drawn to it for the wrong reasons? Your ignorance and intolerance knows no bounds. Very sad indeed

Buddism peace? positive? One only needs to look at the genocide and massacre the Buddhists are conducting in Myanmar and SriLanka to ee how peaceful they really are.

Tom Dunne

hamza81 wrote: »

Your ignorance and intolerance knows no bounds. Very sad indeed

No more of these personal comments, or the banhammer will make an appearance.

Attack the post, not the poster.

hamza81

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Well in that case then, there is a lot of troubled non-independent thinking folk. I cannot imagine moving through this world with no personal independent thought, I may as well be a zombie.

Hang on a second there. I think I'll convert from atheistism to blindly believing in a non-existant entity. Where is my independent thought ? maybe I just lost it. There's no point in moving through this world like a programmed robot. Use the brain and common independent thought you have been given. Put it to good use, and when you see the awakening of this you will see what I mean.

Would you blindly walk over a cliff ? be careful what you walk into.

This is about tolerance. It is not about your perception of what you think about those who follow religion. There are many intolerant people on this Earth and you have just proven that you are one of them. Goodluck

Tom Dunne

hamza81 wrote: »

There are many intolerant people on this Earth and you have just proven that you are one of them.

Attack the post, not the poster.

Final warning.

hamza81

eviltwin wrote: »

Its irresponsible for someone to encourage a clearly troubled person to convert to a religion.

It is far more irresponsible for you to make it out like she has a severe mental issue just because she is inclined towards Islam.

Stheno

Wouldn't the op be required to raise her child as Muslim is she op converts?

hamza81

eviltwin wrote: »

You'd hope so but I'd wonder at the ability of someone to make a rational decision when they see a religion as an answer to their problems. I just think its unfair to the lady in question.

What if it is the answer to her problems. Have you ever considered that or are you so narrow minded and anti religion that your intolerance will not allow you to do so?

Insect Overlord

raah! wrote: »

These are the foamy mouthed adherents of new atheism a contradictory mix of scientism , moral absolutism and antipathy towards other world views. Their posts should be taken with the same grain of salt that one should take the words of any member of an absolutist ideology which confilcts the the tenets of that which you asked them about. In other words, they are members of a religion whose primary teachings are bigotry towards other religions and a sense of superiority over those who do not share their views.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Atheism is not a religion.

hamza81

Reoil wrote: »

I admire how medical advice is banned from boards.ie, but it is perfectly acceptable to give religious "advice" to somebody who is clearly confused about which religion to follow.

Strawberry33, have you thought about atheism? If you can't decide on which "God" created and guides you, I think you might need to look at little further than the internet...

(Peace be upon me)

Talk about being contradictory. You question giving religious advice then you promote your own beliefs.

You have just proven that nothing you say has any credibility whatsoever.

hamza81

Bongalongherb wrote: »

This is exactly what the OP needs to personally think about. The Op needs to allow her brain to think 'independently'. Independent thought is the key to what you really believe. And if you haven't got a free independent thought structure, then you have no idea what you want to convert to.

How do you know she hasn't had any "independent" thinking? No one has forced her to do anything.

It pains you that someone has independently thought about following Islam because you detest those who follow religion.

I don't know why athiests hate those who follow religion when they themselves follow a set of beliefs.

BorneTobyWilde

You could become LDS .

Penny Tration

hamza81 wrote: »

How do you know she hasn't had any "independent" thinking? No one has forced her to do anything.

It pains you that someone has independently thought about following Islam because you detest those who follow religion.

I don't know why athiests hate those who follow religion when they themselves follow a set of beliefs.

I'm an atheist, and I do not hate those who follow religion (bar radicals who use their religion as an excuse for committing evil acts), I respect peoples' right to their beliefs.

So please, stop making unfounded assumptions about atheists. It's your attitude people are taking issue with, not your religion.

OP, if you want to convert to Islam, it's your decision. Ultimately though, it sounds as though you're in a bad place emotionally, so I'd suggest that before you think about ANY religion, you go to your GP, have a chat and get your life back on track.

Then read up on Islam and any other religion that may interest you, and take your time to make your mind up.

hamza81

Terrontress wrote: »

Hamza has a point in that if she believes in Allah as the only god and Mohamed as his prophet then conversion is just a formality, she already is a Muslim.

It seems to me that this girl is quite vulnerable at present and shouldn't make any decisions for a while. Taking up a religion just to find a man is wrong on many levels.

What makes you think she is vulnerable? Just because she is thinking of converting to Islam?

Where in her statement does she mention that she is converting to Islam to meet a man? She merely asked how Muslim men would view her if she converted to Islam.

You should not make up your own assumptions not based on facts.

hamza81

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

I'm an atheist, and I do not hate those who follow religion (bar radicals who use their religion as an excuse for committing evil acts), I respect peoples' right to their beliefs.

So please, stop making unfounded assumptions about atheists. It's your attitude people are taking issue with, not your religion.

OP, if you want to convert to Islam, it's your decision. Ultimately though, it sounds as though you're in a bad place emotionally, so I'd suggest that before you think about ANY religion, you go to your GP, have a chat and get your life back on track.

Then read up on Islam and any other religion that may interest you, and take your time to make your mind up.

I am not making unfounded assumptions at all. The vast majority of athiests here seem to detest those who follow religion.

Just because she has come here to ask for advice on converting to Islam she has been viewed as someone with severe mental issues. It is very sad indeed how ignorant and intolerant people can be.

Penny Tration

hamza81 wrote: »

I am not making unfounded assumptions at all. The vast majority of athiests here seem to detest those who follow religion.

Just because she has come here to ask for advice on converting to Islam she has been viewed as someone with severe mental issues. It is very sad indeed how ignorant and intolerant people can be.

You made statements about atheists, not just about those who have posted here. I quoted it, so you cant really backtrack on that.

Not a single person has suggested the op has severe mental issues.

What people have suggested is that she may be feeling vulnerable. This is evident in her reasoning for considering a conversion.

I disagree with people saying 'don't convert,' but I also totally disagree with you telling her and her child to convert (especially when she already stated that her child will not be converting). If op is feeling vulnerable, a decision on conversion shouldn't be on her mind yet. She should be focusing on sorting out her situation and then after that, she can think clearly and logically about her religious beliefs and choices.

hamza81

An File wrote: »

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Atheism is not a religion.

It is a Dogma

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself.

hamza81

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

You made statements about atheists, not just about those who have posted here. I quoted it, so you cant really backtrack on that.

Not a single person has suggested the op has severe mental issues.

What people have suggested is that she may be feeling vulnerable. This is evident in her reasoning for considering a conversion.

I disagree with people saying 'don't convert,' but I also totally disagree with you telling her and her child to convert (especially when she already stated that her child will not be converting). If op is feeling vulnerable, a decision on conversion shouldn't be on her mind yet. She should be focusing on sorting out her situation and then after that, she can think clearly and logically about her religious beliefs and choices.

I wonder if she was considering adopting the dogma of Athiesm then would she be viewed with the same vulnerability or would she be viewed as thinking "rationally"?

hamza81

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

You made statements about atheists, not just about those who have posted here. I quoted it, so you cant really backtrack on that.

Not a single person has suggested the op has severe mental issues.

What people have suggested is that she may be feeling vulnerable. This is evident in her reasoning for considering a conversion.

I disagree with people saying 'don't convert,' but I also totally disagree with you telling her and her child to convert (especially when she already stated that her child will not be converting). If op is feeling vulnerable, a decision on conversion shouldn't be on her mind yet. She should be focusing on sorting out her situation and then after that, she can think clearly and logically about her religious beliefs and choices.

I wonder if she was considering adopting the dogma of Athiesm then would she be viewed with the same vulnerability or would she be viewed as thinking "rationally"?

Also Jenny your view and my view of "conversion" is very different. This is because we believe that anyone inclined towards accepting Islam is therefore inclined towards the truth because we see Islam as nothing but the truth.

She has not mentioned any confusion about her belief of Islam but the factors around it.

Tom Dunne

hamza81 wrote: »

It is a Dogma

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Full Definition of DOGMA

1
a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma>
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

2
: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

I struggle to understand how not believing in something (e.g. deities) is a dogma, based on the above definition.

Stheno

hamza81 wrote: »

It is a Dogma

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself.

What authority oversees the dogma of atheism? This woman sounds vulnerable and unsure of where she is going in life

She should find her own structure first and use a belief system after

Clearly she knows little of Islam given she is unaware of the fairly basic requirement for Muslims to raise their children as Muslims

Penny Tration

hamza81 wrote: »

I wonder if she was considering adopting the dogma of Athiesm then would she be viewed with the same vulnerability or would she be viewed as thinking "rationally"?

Personally, if she were a christian or muslim considering abandoning her beliefs, and gave the same reasons, I'd encourage her to sort her situation out first.

She made it clear that she is a bit vulnerable at the moment. Forgetting religion for a moment - nobody should be making life-changing decisions unless in a 100% healthy mindset.

That suggestion on dealing with vulnerability first has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

You shouldn't take it so personally

hamza81

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Personally, if she were a christian or muslim considering abandoning her beliefs, and gave the same reasons, I'd encourage her to sort her situation out first.

She made it clear that she is a bit vulnerable at the moment. Forgetting religion for a moment - nobody should be making life-changing decisions unless in a 100% healthy mindset.

That suggestion on dealing with vulnerability first has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

You shouldn't take it so personally

She has come to this decision by herself. No one has forced her to come to accept Islam. She came here for advice, not to be urged to abandon that which she has already made a decision about.

How do you know that she hasn't already dealt with her vulnerability and thought this through properly before posting? She only needs advice on her childs upbringing and factors around converting.

hamza81

Stheno wrote: »

She should find her own structure first and use a belief system after

How do you know she hasn't?

athtrasna

hamza81 wrote: »

So anyone drawn towards Islam is drawn to it for the wrong reasons? Your ignorance and intolerance knows no bounds. Very sad indeed

My point is that a large number of Irish women converting to Islam are just like the poster. I come into contact with a lot of them through my work and I can see that these women were lost and insecure and grasping at straws for acceptance and structure. Not all converts I accept that but in my experience a lot of them. Religion, of any creed is not the appropriate support system IMO.

Stheno

hamza81 wrote: »

How do you know she hasn't?

She clearly articulated that she sees Islam as giving her structure yet is ignorant of one of its very basic requirements regarding children being raised in the faith

Would be the same as someone deciding they want to convert to be a Catholic and think they wouldn't have to raise their child as Catholic?

hamza81

athtrasna wrote: »

My point is that a large number of Irish women converting to Islam are just like the poster. I come into contact with a lot of them through my work and I can see that these women were lost and insecure and grasping at straws for acceptance and structure. Not all converts I accept that but in my experience a lot of them. Religion, of any creed is not the appropriate support system IMO.

So you come across "some" Irish women who are thinking about Islam and you use your little experience to make such a big generalisation?

As humans we need structure. Talk to any Psychologist and psychotherapist and they will tell you that.

Why is religion or creed in your view not a good support system?

hamza81

Stheno wrote: »

She clearly articulated that she sees Islam as giving her structure yet is ignorant of one of its very basic requirements regarding children being raised in the faith

Would be the same as someone deciding they want to convert to be a Catholic and think they wouldn't have to raise their child as Catholic?

Well it is not so straight forward when a new Muslim comes to Islam and their children are of a certain age. It does depend on what age the child is. If they are before the age of 7 then it is easy to bring them up as a Muslim. But if they are past the age of 10 then it is not so easy. So it was a very valid question.