New Topics/Category Organisation Update 20:45 - Post 100

zeffabelli

Any chance of putting it back the way it was?

Kristopherus

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Yeah, the boards.ie drop down not actually leading to most of the discussion forums seems to me to be really confusing for new users. If I was coming here for the first time, that's where I'd be going, not to the topics tab.

Click on Topics, the on Topics that is on top of the drop-down list. That opens up all the forum headings and their sub-forums.

Lovely Bloke

None of this is better than hover...click

ThisRegard

Cold War Kid wrote: »

People will get used to it in no time. Any time people object to something like this, it's essentially just not liking change. The old way is forgotten very quickly.

It doesn't matter if people will get used to it in no time if it's a step backwards in usability.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I like it. Much neater having all the topics together like that. Good job.

The point of a good UI is not purely for aesthetics.

NI24

This is bad guys. Firstly, I didn't even know a change was coming, secondly, the tab headings are more confusing/redundant than before, and thirdly, it takes longer to get to the forums! You get a big fat E for effort, but surely it has to be more user friendly?!

uck51js9zml2yt

Plagued with internal server errors last night.

Boards.ie: Chris

Guys, it's not changing back. As has already been said, the coming new layout included a new navigation structure from inception. The change yesterday was to get you used to the new structure before we rolled out the new overall layout so you would be used to the navigation and causing less friction. It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

ThisRegard

fitz wrote: »

While it might look neater initially, it's a horrible user experience.
Addition of extra navigation clicks is madness, the navigation experience should only ever be simplified and shortened, not lengthened.
.........
There are forums that I dip in and out of occasionally, but not regularly enough to want them in my subbed forums list.

Exactly. I often browse through each drop down to see if there's anything that grabs my interest in that moment of time and spend longer browsing the site than I intended to, often finding an interesting forum I wouldn't really be aware of.

Now that just simply won't happen, reducing the time I spend on the site, something paying advertisers wouldn't be too impressed with.

So this, and the issue with the ads killing the touch site equates to me visiting it not as often as I would when I have a spare few minutes to kill.

Brian?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Now I appreciate why you sometimes get complaints despite a lengthy consultation period......

But no separating Health from Fitness?

*sad face*

That is all.

I've campaigned for this for a while now. PM me and I can explain in depth.

ThisRegard

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Something has happened to "Television" - it's in my "My Forums" list, but when I click it now I see displayed a list of forums, all sitting on top of the actual Television threads, meaning I've to scroll past a list of 28 Sub Forums, and all the Television Stickies before I can read threads.

Previously I was taken directly to the Television --> Television Forum which was better, obviously.

Yeah, having all the subforums on top of the main forum is silly, goes against the idea of the changes being there to tidy things up and save on screen space.

El Guapo! wrote: »

Is the word "Topics" annoying anyone else?
Why isn't it just called "Categories", like most other sites?

Not just like any other site, but it goes against the actual common meaning of the word. Topics are what the threads in an individual forum are about, not the forum themselves. How can you call After Hours for example a Topic when there's such a diversity of actual topics in there.

ThisRegard

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

This doesn't matter until people get a hands on feel for the thing, you can't comment on such a change based on screen shots in a thread, you need to have a hands on experience with it. This is the main reason for having Beta versions etc.

You never roll out a new version of a system, particularly with such a change to the UI, straight into production in a commercial environment.

_Kaiser_

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

Guys, it's not changing back. As has already been said, the coming new layout included a new navigation structure from inception. The change yesterday was to get you used to the new structure before we rolled out the new overall layout so you would be used to the navigation and causing less friction. It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

And you have a thread here now giving feedback which is overwhelmingly negative in response to these changes with good and valid reasons why this is the case - it's not just "I hate change!"

I'd like to understand how ye feel that implementing a temporary structure that disrupts and confuses new and old users alike for no real benefit when the whole thing is to change again in a matter of weeks is a "good thing"

Also the "it's not changing back" line doesn't really fit with the "we've asked for feedback" line. What's the point in asking for constructive feedback if ye are going to plow away regardless if the feedback doesn't fit the internal team's opinions? That's not going to win any converts either

NI24

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

Guys, it's not changing back. As has already been said, the coming new layout included a new navigation structure from inception. The change yesterday was to get you used to the new structure before we rolled out the new overall layout so you would be used to the navigation and causing less friction. It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

With all due respect, I don't think this attitude is going to endear you to either current users or incoming users--a group of people that are integral to the success of this site.

whatismyname

NI24 wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't think this attitude is going to endear you to either current users and incoming users--a group of people that are integral to the success of this site.

Nope, I was already verging on the 'I don't think I could quite be arsed continuing a site that deliberately makes it a lot harder for people to use', but obviously that's dramatic, need to give them time to listen to feedback, tweak to get it right etc....

But with an attitude like that from staff, making it much more than just deliberately making it a lot harder, but just a 'we're right, the people giving us the constructive feedback are wrong', is not good.

I posted last night about how it's not right or wrong, people use the site in different ways, and those saying it makes it a lot harder to use have valid perspectives, so disappointed that Boards themselves have a very different outlook.

On a separate note, I noticed that 'announcements were ran, but I'm clearly missing them: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1253 And honestly have no idea where the 'numerous threads' mentioned were, and no I don't see that as a testament that the old way had stuff hard to find, more likely that they were in forums I don't visit, and were perhaps not promoted.

It's irrelevant now anyway, as people have given their feedback on how much more difficult it makes things for them, but it seems just a case of 'tough', so guess it seems a case of 'get used to things being much less user friendly', or 'head off'.

'Ah well' as they say.

Tigger

Health and fitness should have been split but making the regions such a big tab that has soo few posts per day is baffeling

trellheim

What is infuriating me is a lack of "Click here to browse boards.ie in classic mode" ; there is also still no announcement on the front page of the change; the last post from boards.ie has been essentially "Deal with it".

Where's the CIO/CTO here discussing how smart he thinks this change is

Lovely Bloke

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

Guys, it's not changing back. As has already been said, the coming new layout included a new navigation structure from inception. The change yesterday was to get you used to the new structure before we rolled out the new overall layout so you would be used to the navigation and causing less friction. It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

Fine, but the last sentence is pretty condescending when you never ran a live trial to get feedback onboard and use it to make the final design.

A few screenshots and a thread in Feedback is lovely, but until the changes go live and people start using them any feedback is basically useless, then to outright dismiss feedback that arrives once go live has started smacks of "we're the developers, the work is done now deal with it".

Great customer experience right there.

The roll out was cack-handed and this "it's only interim so you can get used to it" is pretty insulting to the thousands of current users - are we too bleedin stupid to take to a whole redesign at once, instead "the office" thinks we need in dribs and drabs like lab rats, little change here, another change there, ah shure they'll never even notice.

I fail to understand how burying the site under another layer makes it easier for anyone - new user or otherwise.

Dades

I agree with a lot of the feedback I've read this morning, but this is ridiculous.

padd b1975 wrote: »

It's just taken me ten minutes to find the radio forum.

10!!

If I want to be led on a similar merry dance, I'll join Reddit.

Type r-a-d into the search box and click on the first link that drops down: Entertainment > Radio.

Unless you are a very slow typer, this should save you some time.

_Kaiser_

trellheim wrote: »

What is infuriating me is a lack of "Click here to browse boards.ie in classic mode" ; there is also still no announcement on the front page of the change; the last post from boards.ie has been essentially "Deal with it".

Unfortunately this does seem to be the case. "This is how it is and your feedback is welcome as long as it agrees with our decisions, otherwise we'll be going ahead anyway!"

It's exactly the same attitude that came out during the Adverts "success fees" implementation that I referred to earlier in the thread and it didn't go over any better then AND had led to Adverts being filled with long-sold ads as people try to get around the charges, while doing nothing to address the larger issues of thread spoiling and timewasters

Boards/DM in it's drive to commercialisation seems to be forgetting that the success of these sites DEPENDS absolutely on its users who (unlike 5/10 years ago) have plenty of alternatives if pushed too far.

By pushing out significant changes like this with negative impacts on the user experience and THEN saying "this is how it is - tough!" I really don't think it's going to help attract new users, never mind retain existing ones!

kneemos

Dades wrote: »

I agree with a lot of the feedback I've read this morning, but this is ridiculous.
Type r-a-d into the search box and click on the first link that drops down: Entertainment > Radio.

Unless you are a very slow typer, this should save you some time.

If you're not aware that a there is a radio forum how likely are you to come across it?

Lovely Bloke

tbh

Kunkka

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

.

If it's not broken why fix it?

Dades

kneemos wrote: »

If you're not aware that a there is a radio forum how likely are you to come across it?

padd b1975 is well aware of the radio forum. Once you know the forum exists it's impossibly easy to find it using the search box.

In this instance I'm not directing this "tip" at newer users finding their way around, though it can be very helpful to them, too. e.g. Someone looking to post about photography or cycling only have to type that in to get a suggested forum.

Fwiw, I'm not a fan of hiding everything in a "Topics" tab, instead think a menu type button as suggested in next-gen site screenshots could work - as long as the menu is slick and responsive, and doesn't require undue clicking.

Dades

Just having a think about this; given how useful the search box actually is, I wonder if an instance of the search box could appear in the dropdown above the list of forums with a "search for a forum/topic/catagory" label.

That way people would could directly associate it with finding forums, rather than searching the site for keywords which I suspect most people currently think it does.

Spear

Kunkka wrote: »

If it's not broken why fix it?

It's not a case of being broken, more so a case of being horrible anachronistic. The old categories were based on the Usenet subdivisions, hence rec, arts, edu etc. And how many people use Usenet these days? Or even know the name of it? They have no relevance to those who've now grown up on Facebook/Twitter.

28064212

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

Guys, it's not changing back. As has already been said, the coming new layout included a new navigation structure from inception. The change yesterday was to get you used to the new structure before we rolled out the new overall layout so you would be used to the navigation and causing less friction. It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

We've ran numerous threads on this asking for constructive feedback and even ran announcements giving people plenty of time to get their voice heard.

Have there been any posts complaining about the category reorganisation? There was plenty of constructive feedback in the thread on it. I don't think I've seen one post in this thread on the issues that were raised there.

Almost every single post has been about the changed functionality of the dropdown menu, and the extra clicks needed to access a particular forum. There was no discussion on that in the original feedback thread. There wasn't even a screenshot of it.

No-one has asked for a roll-back of the category reorganisation. No-one has suggested a return to "Rec" and "Soc". Everyone has asked for a roll-back to the old style and functionality of the menu

Also, any talk of using My Forums/User CP/Search box is irrelevant. If those are suitable replacements, then just do away with the drop-down altogether. But they're not, they serve different purposes. And I'm speaking as someone who does not use the drop-down at all, it either its current or previous incarnation

fitz

There have been Category re-orgs in the past.
If the goal was to get people used to the new categorisation of individual forums, why not just leave the existing menus in place and do the re-categorisation?

That would have got people used to where things are without disruption to usability.

I understand the needs to move to new technology, to simply things, and to drive better user engagement, but this was not the way to roll a new design out.

Dravokivich

The main gripe here appears to be over the "Topics" link in the top. My understanding from reading through this thread, is that the "Topics" link is temporary. When the new layout gets rolled out, however it's to be displayed, I expect it'll be changed to the items in the Topics menu.

The reason for the click, is that parent forums always required a click to see the child forums. It's just now, the Category takes the place of the parent forum, so there is a tiered set of forums to expand to get to where we want.

This could have been handled better if we were told what to expect throughout these roll out stages. Not just that a milestone has been accomplished, then leaving us baffled at what's going on. As several other posters mentioned here before, I thought something was wrong on my end all day yesterday.

Kunkka wrote: »

If it's not broken why fix it?

Just because it works well, doesn't mean something better isn't possible.

kneemos

OSI wrote: »

Where was it before, under arts? "hmmm, I wanna chat about that program that was on the radio earlier, where would it be? It's entertainment, but I don't see a category for that. It's kind of recreational, but that's just got something called After Hours and a bunch of motoring stuff...."

It is actually right there under Entertainment.
Dunno how it took ten minutes.

whatismyname

Spear wrote: »

It's not a case of being broken, more so a case of being horrible anachronistic. The old categories were based on the Usenet subdivisions, hence rec, arts, edu etc. And how many people use Usenet these days? Or even know the name of it? They have no relevance to those who've now grown up on Facebook/Twitter.

I don't think they were meaning 'broken' literally.

And I don't think the main feedback people are saying that doesn't work for them is the names of the categories. There seem to have been many things said, but hardly any focusing on the names of the categories from what I saw.