New Topics/Category Organisation Update 20:45 - Post 100

Penn

Dades wrote: »

I agree with a lot of the feedback I've read this morning, but this is ridiculous.
Type r-a-d into the search box and click on the first link that drops down: Entertainment > Radio.

Unless you are a very slow typer, this should save you some time.

I found it in the dropdown menus in under 10 seconds.

It's clearly not under Talk To, Regional or Adverts. Boards.ie is the same dropdown menu it previously was.

So, under Topics, click on Arts, it's not there. So click on Entertainment (the next most likely place it would be), and there it is.

padd b1975, if it seriously took you 10 minutes to find it, I don't think that's something Boards can fix. I think that's a problem on your end.

mikom

Disaster.
You'd need a sat-nav to find some topics and a lucky guess to find others.

Nody

Honestly I like the new categories in general (but agree Topics should be named something else) but what really annoys me more than anything else is the fact it's a single list drop down menu. If I go into for example Sports I have to scroll way down to find what I want were previously with multiple columns I could see the whole category in one handy box visible directly.

The fact I can't hover it to open automatically is something I'm sure to come back but please give us visibility in a single screen for the whole category as in the previous version. At least to me that lead to finding what I wanted faster and checking out forums I'd not check on an ongoing basis out of curiosity.

Tokyo

mikom wrote: »

Disaster.
You'd need a sat-nav to find some topics and a lucky guess to find others.

I wouldn't agree. Any of the forums that were actually moved, are now in a more intuitive location. Any of the forums not moved are in the same easy (or difficult, depending on your perspective) to find location as before. I really can't understand why people are acting like they've been dropped into the middle of a minefield with no map

There are two separate issues at play here, and should be treated as such - the actual reorganisation of the categories, and the dropdown menu at the top of the page. Personally, I don't have a problem with the category restructure. I agree with some of the constructive criticism given in respect to the menu, but it's very much worth remembering that this is a temporary menu, while waiting for the the new site design to roll out.

_Kaiser_

Spear wrote: »

It's not a case of being broken, more so a case of being horrible anachronistic. The old categories were based on the Usenet subdivisions, hence rec, arts, edu etc. And how many people use Usenet these days? Or even know the name of it? They have no relevance to those who've now grown up on Facebook/Twitter.

True, BUT this is still a discussion forum not Facebook or Twitter or Reddit, and like other fora there are significant differences as to how they operate vs the above examples.

If the intention is to turn Boards into a Facebook/Reddit/Twitter clone then sure, copy away! If however it's to retain the same fundamental structure though then by all means move off vBulletin if it's not up to the task anymore, but sacrificing the UX in the process AND alienating users with some of the messaging around these changes and - more importantly - the responses to the constructive feedback that IS being offered is in my opinion anyway, NOT the way to go and will only hinder not help the site in the long term.

_Kaiser_

mike_ie wrote: »

I agree with some of the constructive criticism given in respect to the menu, but it's very much worth remembering that this is a temporary menu, while waiting for the the new site design to roll out.

The key point though is that as this is only a temporary menu anyway, what's the logic in confusing and annoying users (new and old) when the whole site is going to change again in a matter of weeks anyway.

The response that it's to "get us used to it" is condescending IMO. Most people here aren't new to the Internet and can handle big changes IF they're positive, beneficial and improve the general experience.. none of which the changes in the last 24 hours have been!

MrWalsh

Im finding it very difficult to find anything and the drop down menus are a bit of a nightmare on the ipad as unless you very specifically touch the tiny downward arrow its as though you have clicked to follow the link to a "topic" - so the menu dropdown hasnt really been working for me at all.

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

_Kaiser_

OSI wrote: »

I've had a good read of the thread, a good half of this thread is the same 3 or 4 people bleating on. A considerable chunk from you. And then you have likes of Challengemaster coming out with crap like (yes, paraphrasing) "They're only doing it to justify a paycheque", what kind of response do you want?

How about the powers that be read the feedback, accept that 90% of users that have posted aren't happy with the change, accept that they made a mistake on this one and hold their hands up and admit it.

Then undo these IMO unnecessary changes until such time that they ARE ready to move with the larger restructure of the site - but I'd suggest that asking for feedback and then ignoring it because it doesn't fit with the internal agenda is self-defeating and sets a poor tone to the users generally.

Dades

MrWalsh wrote: »

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

The TV forum is actually on the same page, below all the show forums. I'm guessing something will have be done about that.

mirrormatrix

OSI wrote: »

I've had a good read of the thread, a good half of this thread is the same 3 or 4 people bleating on.

Maybe that's because they are the only 3 or 4 people that can actually navigate to this thread under the new system

whatismyname

MrWalsh wrote: »

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

This any use? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=227

Seems on the dropdown, you click the little arrow as usual and it shows all the subforums, but you still just click on 'television' on the top, rather than a subforum like it was before.

And when you then go into 'television' you see loads of subforums at the top, so probably some like me, may almost miss the general threads at the bottom and think it's just a list of subforums.

kneemos

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im finding it very difficult to find anything and the drop down menus are a bit of a nightmare on the ipad as unless you very specifically touch the tiny downward arrow its as though you have clicked to follow the link to a "topic" - so the menu dropdown hasnt really been working for me at all.

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

Underneath the show forums.

Harry Palmr

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im finding it very difficult to find anything and the drop down menus are a bit of a nightmare on the ipad as unless you very specifically touch the tiny downward arrow its as though you have clicked to follow the link to a "topic" - so the menu dropdown hasnt really been working for me at all.

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

The main television forum is below all the subforum but in the dropdown menu
you just click Television - there is no Television/television (if you follow) Its a right mess to be honest.

Wanted - Television General Discussion

fitz

mike_ie wrote: »

There are two separate issues at play here, and should be treated as such - the actual reorganisation of the categories, and the dropdown menu at the top of the page. Personally, I don't have a problem with the category restructure.

100% agree, and I don't think you'll find many who will have a problem with the restructure of the categories. Combining this with a stopgap UI was a mistake though, and was unnecessary.

I agree with some of the constructive criticism given in respect to the menu, but it's very much worth remembering that this is a temporary menu, while waiting for the the new site design to roll out.

Changing the way people interact with any system on a fundamental basis is not something you put an interim solution in place for. Changing to a new UI is going to be disruptive to the userbase...doing it twice without an essential technical dependency to do so is just creating unnecessary service impact.

It'd be a bad idea even if the interim UI was as usable as the existing one, or the future one.

ThisRegard

MrWalsh wrote: »

I cant find the Television forum at all, only the specific show forums.

You have to scroll right to the bottom, it's on the same page as all the sub forums which is not great.

Wibbs

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Yeah, the boards.ie drop down not actually leading to most of the discussion forums seems to me to be really confusing for new users. If I was coming here for the first time, that's where I'd be going, not to the topics tab.

Good luck to the mods of Help Desk. They're gonna get a lot more "my fridge is broken, who do I fix it" threads.

Boards.ie: Chris wrote: »

It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more. I've lost count of how many times I've overheard demonstrations from our colleagues trying to explain where to find things. The old layout was a layover from 20 years ago, it's long overdue a big overhaul.

While the old layout was in need of a rejig, the new where to find things is under extra layers and requires more actions. It's less conducive to browsing different areas of discussion. More likely that existing users will stick to their "my forums" list. How new users will view and navigate it is another thing. I dunno TBH, not being a newbie. The weighting of the categories also reduces the content generation part of the site. The bit that drives the site, though Talk to and Adverts pays for the site. Boards.ie as a tab is confusing and of low footfall compared to the others.

titan18

On the restructure of the categories, I just don't see why. What's the difference between Entertainment and Arts? Comics, Literature, Anime and Manga, Magic and Illusion and Theatre and Performing Arts could easily be classified as Entertainment instead of Arts and can easily class Films, Television, Radio and SciFi and Fantasy under Arts instead of Entertainment.

It's just splitting them out needlessly imo. Why not make one just as Arts and Entertainment instead of splitting out sub-forums that can be classified as both (in particular film, as some films you'd class as Art more than Entertainment and others the opposite)

Much bigger problems with the redesign but that split is just unnecessary and solves nothing

MrWalsh

Thank you all I have found the Television forum now. Didnt realise it would be underneath all the sub forums.

humanji

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

How about the powers that be read the feedback, accept that 90% of users that have posted aren't happy with the change, accept that they made a mistake on this one and hold their hands up and admit it.

Maybe they should wait more than 24 hours before deciding?

Corvo

It's very simple.

More navigation = bad

Less navigation = good

Some people, regardless of their experience with Boards do not want to use the search bar. The hover and click element (which I thought was this sites biggest advantage in fact, along with its tidy thread/quote/conversation design) was perfect.

I really do not see why it was changed.

Disaster.

whatismyname

humanji wrote: »

Maybe they should wait more than 24 hours before deciding?

I agree that they absolutely should wait more than 24 hours in the first place.

I also believe though that they should be willing to listen to feedback and make decisions on it, as the most recent Boards response implies otherwise.

Add on the fact that the response focuses on an issue which hardly anyone has raised, and ignores those that people are saying cause difficulty for them...

So yep I think probably less about how long it takes to wait and review, but more about being willing to listen to users, interact, take feedback onboard, and work together to achieve the best outcomes.

TerrorFirmer

The site is simply beyond horrible to use at the moment for casual browsing.

Pointing people towards a search bar to find forums is an absolute joke.

Boards.ie: Chris wrote:

It is strongly needed to encourage new users to interact with the site more.

And, no offense but that reads as a bad joke. The site is the most non-user friendly as it's ever been since I joined 10 years ago at the moment.

humanji

whatismyname wrote: »

I also believe though that they should be willing to listen to feedback and make decisions on it, as the most recent Boards response implies otherwise.

That says it's not changing back to the way it was, not that it won't change due to feedback. And considering the issues people are having with the system, it's highly unlikely things won't change.

Dades

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Pointing people towards a search bar to find forums is an absolute joke.

Why is it a joke? That's what it's for.

whatismyname

humanji wrote: »

That says it's not changing back to the way it was, not that it won't change due to feedback.

Yes, I know and can see that, but there's still more to what I was saying, and more to what was said in the linked post, than that.

whatismyname

Dades wrote: »

Why is it a joke? That's what it's for.

If you don't know that a forum exists then you're not going to know to search for it on a search bar.

Whereas casual browsing allows you to browse and find forums / threads of interest.

Harry Palmr

Is anyone a guardian user? They moved from a long standing design to something quite different and needless to say a large % of the user base expressed their horror at the new design generally and esp the blog software. The guardians own reaction as expressed by the BETA management team was one of utter condescension. They knew they weren't going to stop BETA and so basically told everyone to get on with it.

Of course they were right in that the BTL comments are as busy as ever, though the new design is massively wasteful and ugly.

The user really doesn't matter to the publication.

titan18

Should hire the guy who tests your site whilst drunk. If not him, I'm sure plenty of boardsies will give it a shot.

TerrorFirmer

Dades wrote: »

Why is it a joke? That's what it's for.

How an earth is a new user supposed to search for forums they aren't aware of? The old menu was accessible and clearly laid out what boards had to offer.

The new layout is absolutely terrible and entirely inaccessible by comparison.

fitz

Dades wrote: »

Why is it a joke? That's what it's for.

Searching and Browsing are two entirely different user activities, and using the tools available for one to muddle through the inadequacy of those available for the other is not a solution.