Extradite killers to the USA.

stmol32 · 17-04-2015 11:10am

topper75 wrote: »

The only shine I see is off the glazed eyeballs of liberals and dogooder innocents from privileged backgrounds who don't grasp how heinous the crime of murder really is.

Ermmmm, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that murder is bad.

stmol32 · 17-04-2015 11:13am

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It would be the first policy decision in the history of the state dictated by facebook comments.

Closely followed by the naming and shaming of everyone questioned or suspected of anything because we are nosy bastards.

Not to forget life imprisonment for anyone described in a post as 'scum' if that post gets fifty or more likes.

I don't like the film your username comes from....off to America with ye!

V_Moth · 17-04-2015 11:18am

Op should read "Der Prozess" by Franz Kafka.

jimgoose · 17-04-2015 11:21am

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 11:24am

jimgoose wrote: »

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

stmol32 · 17-04-2015 11:45am

jimgoose wrote: »

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

What, someone murders someone and all we do is take their catapult away!
I don't think that's much of a deterrent.

endacl · 17-04-2015 12:23pm

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Reinstate the state executioner...I'll sign up for the vacancy

We never had one. In the grand old Irish tradition of not facing up to harsh reality while Britain was so handily near to take care of any unpleasantness we needed dealing with, Albert Pierrepoint used to come across to take care of our state sanctioned murders.

Interestingly enough, Pierrepoint was never an 'official' executioner in England either. There was no such position. He was a self employed contractor.

endacl · 17-04-2015 12:26pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you think they would have a problem with that?

Not if they could do it from behind the safety of an anonymous username and a keyboard.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 12:26pm

endacl wrote: »

We never had one. In the grand old Irish tradition of not facing up to harsh reality while Britain was so handily near to take care of any unpleasantness we needed dealing with, Albert Pierrepoint used to come across to take care of our state sanctioned murders.

Interestingly enough, Pierrepoint was never an 'official' executioner in England either. There was no such position. He was a self employed contractor.

its not like we ever did enough of them to get good at it. and if you are going to execute people you need to be sure it is done properly. Pierrepoint knew what he was doing.

endacl · 17-04-2015 12:28pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

its not like we ever did enough of them to get good at it. and if you are going to execute people you need to be sure it is done properly. Pierrepoint knew what he was doing.

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 12:29pm

endacl wrote: »

Not if they could do it from behind the safety of an anonymous username and a keyboard.

you presume incorrectly.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 12:30pm

endacl wrote: »

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

he was taught by his father and uncle. He didnt just rock up and perform a hanging.

Son Of A Vidic · 17-04-2015 12:33pm

El Guapo! wrote: »

I would like to nominate that for post of the year.:D

topper75 · 17-04-2015 12:40pm

endacl wrote: »

state sanctioned murders

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 12:42pm

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

to be more correct an execution is not murder as murder is the unlawful killing of another. as an execution is state sanctioned it cannot be unlawful.

endacl · 17-04-2015 12:46pm

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

Paramite Pie · 17-04-2015 1:31pm

I can't believe this thread is still going... Do you really think the American public would even support this let alone their government? Most American states have banned the death penalty and you can't extradite to a specific state as far as I know. If you support the death penalty this strongly then campaign for it here.

Amirani · 17-04-2015 1:34pm

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

There's no subtlety whatsoever in the ridiculousness of the above definition.

Firstly, it's possible to be "not innocent" and be murdered. Secondly, not everyone who's executed is a murderer, for one reason or another.

Streetwalker · 17-04-2015 1:44pm

Yeah because death row works so well in the US I mean look at those low crime stats

5starpool · 17-04-2015 1:49pm

Wait until we get the Mars colony going. We can send all our prisoners there and rename the place 'Novo Australis'.

It's a better idea than the one in the OP anyhow.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-04-2015 1:52pm

endacl wrote: »

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

It's not that difficult to perform a long drop hanging. You take the person's height and weight and set the drop accordingly. It was a perfected method by the time Pierrepoint came on the scene.

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 1:56pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's not that difficult to perform a long drop hanging. You take the person's height and weight and set the drop accordingly. It was a perfected method by the time Pierrepoint came on the scene.

knowing the method is not the same as doing one.

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 2:01pm

Of all the things any country ought to seek inspiration from the USA their prison system is fairly close to the bottom of the pile.

Perhaps we would be better looking at countries with lower rates of re-offending?

Who are these people that want Ireland to become another American (blue) state?

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 2:05pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Of all the things any country ought to seek inspiration from the USA their prison system is fairly close to the bottom of the pile.

Perhaps we would be better looking at countries with lower rates of re-offending?

Who are these people that want Ireland to become another American (blue) state?

if we are sending them there to be executed why worry about re-offending rates?

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 2:18pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if we are sending them there to be executed why worry about re-offending rates?

Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not.

Justice is better viewed as a tool to better society rather than a binary solution to provide some vague notice of justice to a family of the victim whilst at the same time risking doubling that injustice by killing an innocent or mentally ill / someone with a severe learning difficulty etc.

What would be the point? Do you prioritise the possibility (and it's only a possibility) that the victims family might get some sort of satisfaction watching the death of the person that committed the capital offense? I think that's a very transitory, vague and useless notion of justice. Better the objective of the justice system to be the reduction of crime through rehabilitation, treat the urge to commit crime as a multi faceted issue including mental health problems, social problems and yes, the possibility that certain people are downright evil bstards who should be isolated from society. Killing to stop killing is not the way to achieve that.

catallus · 17-04-2015 2:20pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent.

When properly implemented, the death penalty results in a recidivism rate of precisely zero.

Magico Gonzalez · 17-04-2015 2:25pm

catallus wrote: »

When properly implemented, the death penalty results in a recidivism rate of precisely zero.

Deterrent.

Not recidivism.

Why are you repeating the point when I already stated:

"Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not."

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

oppenheimer1 · 17-04-2015 2:31pm

To be fair to the OP, it's not like we don't have a history in exporting problems we don't want to face on this part of the island.

catallus · 17-04-2015 2:32pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

But lots of crimes occur in prisons too!

ohnonotgmail · 17-04-2015 2:35pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Deterrent.

Not recidivism.

Why are you repeating the point when I already stated:

"Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not."

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

No. you end with a prisoner that can basically do whatever they like.

Extradite killers to the USA.

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