General Elections. The Constituency of Tipperary

digzy

This vb thing ir ridiculous. Basically all the people speaking are only talking about mental health issues and it's on over half an hour now....

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

Same context as your friend Jem as used in his post number #228. Notice you did not take him to task. Also you misquoted me by not using inverted commas around the word "ordinary" as I did.

Your "ordinary people"was inferring that anybody turning up to the debate was not ordinary because of your views of VBs programme that does not pander to the Gov partys and would be to low rent for you.

As it happened the only low rent crowd who turned up were the FG supporters shouting and roaring and trying to stifle any debate in the absence of their own cowardly junior minister and coalition partner minister turning up to put their views forward.

Felt very sorry for that FG lady councillor who had the guts to turn up and put her party and coalition record forward gracefully and I think the debaters and the host recognised this and protected her very well in her isolation in view of the fact that her colleagues had not the guts to do the same.

If she is running she will get a tick form me on the strength of that alone.

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

If she is running she will get a tick form me on the strength of that alone.

Which is the only reason she turned up!

tipptom

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is the only reason she turned up!

Well,that may be the case,may be not, but she had the guts to turn up and debate their policys and that is an admirable quality IMO and its another good reason why we should be more represented in our parliament by women who have backbone and are willing to face the people unlike her brave male colleagues.

Xenophile

Just look at what you may have missed!

http://www.thejournal.ie/vincent-browne-podge-and-rodge-2451477-Nov2015/

jem

Have no love for Mattie but S Healy looked like someone who is under pressure in the polls and went on the attack against a fellow Independent.
The performance of a Cahir FG supporter was desperate , he shouted and shouted at all the candidates there( except the FG woman)

Tippjohn

Thanks for the link, hillarious, if only his mind could slow down to match his mouth to. However having met him man times I did ask him how he could stand the gobs****s in Government who he had to attempt to question. " With great difficulty, very frustrating"

tipptom

jem wrote: »

Have no love for Mattie but S Healy looked like someone who is under pressure in the polls and went on the attack against a fellow Independent.
The performance of a Cahir FG supporter was desperate , he shouted and shouted at all the candidates there( except the FG woman)

Did something happen before they went on-air with them that there had to be pre promises made that they would not disrupt the programme.

jem

tipptom wrote: »

Did something happen before they went on-air with them that there had to be pre promises made that they would not disrupt the programme.

Apparently that is standard and he asks everyone not to heckle and be disruptive before the show starts.

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

Just look at what you may have missed!

http://www.thejournal.ie/vincent-browne-podge-and-rodge-2451477-Nov2015/

Podge and Rog turned up but the Tin man and the cowardly lion were afraid.

Xenophile

tipptom wrote: »

Podge and Rog turned up but the Tin man and the cowardly lion were afraid.

Alan Kelly will get more first preference votes than the combined total of Mattie and Seamus.

I wonder if he had been there would he have been referred to as AK 47

The programme can be found here. https://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/573

digzy

Xenophile wrote: »

Alan Kelly will get more first preference votes than the combined total of Mattie and Seamus.

You're either taking the p1ss (I hope so for your sake) or you're plain deluded beyond belief... Even by your standards!

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

Alan Kelly will get more first preference votes than the combined total of Mattie and Seamus.

I wonder if he had been there would he have been referred to as AK 47

I would be willing to take you up on that.

Xenophile

The most negative debate I ever watched in all my life.

Anyone who did not know it before should know by now, that any TD who is not a member of a Government Party can never achieve anything for a constituency.

I was most impressed by the young man from Cashel who stood up and said that he was a proud member of Fine Gael and said his piece. He is a man for the future, does anyone have his name, because if he stays in politics he will be a man worth looking out for.

Verdict: Nothing positive came out of the whole evening.

touts

Xenophile wrote: »

Alan Kelly will get more first preference votes than the combined total of Mattie and Seamus.

I wonder if he had been there would he have been referred to as AK 47

If Kelly gets that high a vote he'll top the poll and buck every local and national poll. Won't happen. He's in a fight for a seat which is more than most Labour TDs can say but it'll be a very tough fight.

As to this AK47 nickname that he seems to have given himself it was funny for a few weeks but now it's becoming a liability. AK47s might be good weapons but the rag tag bunch of extremists who carry them usually lose.

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

The most negative debate I ever watched in all my life.

Anyone who did not know it before should know by now, that any TD who is not a member of a Government Party can never achieve anything for a constituency.

I was most impressed by the young man from Cashel who stood up and said that he was a proud member of Fine Gael and said his piece. He is a man for the future, does anyone have his name, because if he stays in politics he will be a man worth looking out for.

Verdict: Nothing positive came out of the whole evening.

I found the whole "debate" extremely depressing. Vincent Brownes programmes use and abuse the most vulnerable for entertainment. I really don't blame the TDs for avoiding it.

The upcoming General Election will be the most interesting one I can remember (And I've been around the block a few times!) I would traditionally be Labour first and then FG. The second last GE, I actually broke with tradition and voted FF in the desperate hope that they would use one more term to sort out the god awful mess we were in. I find it very hard to take either Mattie McGrath or Seamus Healy serious. They are both contrary men.

PearlJ

Yet again Xenophile, you show your lack of knowledge in local politics despite your own pomp. That was Declan Burgess. An arrogant little upstart in Fine Gael Youth. God help us all if that little **** ever makes it to National politics.
I thought he made an absolute fool of himself. He stood up to make some random statement about the Seanad election that had no point and then got owned by Vincent.

jem

Have to say that I was expecting ( and I know it is wrong to ) the Shinners/AAA to be very loud, disrespectful to speakers. I was 100% wrong - fair play.
The only member of the audience that was like this was the FG fella from Cahir that the TV focused in on. Quite frankly he was an ass and a bully towards everyone bar FG people.

PearlJ

Couldn't agree more. I was totally expecting them to over power everyone. They behaved very well. It was FG across the board that came off badly. From the audience, to the comments to the panel. Marie was too nervous and wasn't able for Vincent. Plus the fact he kept calling her the wrong name couldn't have gone down well. And I cringed when she made that comment early on about money for mental health going to pay the deficit.
Seamie Morris was the best speaker of the night. Though I thought he was treated a bit unfairly. Was forced to stop speaking as soon as the bell went while the insufferable Ambrose was allowed to drone on for as long as she wanted.

tipptom

PearlJ wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I was totally expecting them to over power everyone. They behaved very well. It was FG across the board that came off badly. From the audience, to the comments to the panel. Marie was too nervous and wasn't able for Vincent. Plus the fact he kept calling her the wrong name couldn't have gone down well. And I cringed when she made that comment early on about money for mental health going to pay the deficit.
Seamie Morris was the best speaker of the night. Though I thought he was treated a bit unfairly. Was forced to stop speaking as soon as the bell went while the insufferable Ambrose was allowed to drone on for as long as she wanted.

I thought Seamus Morris was very nervous and tripping over his words and thought that Siobhan Ambrose spoke quite well and I could not be called a FF supporter by any stretch.

touts

Ok. Finally got a chance tonight to sit down and watch the whole debate.

Seamus Healy seemed to be a single issue candidate on water in his opening statement. As the debate went on was able to talk on other issues but he seriously lacked any depth and everything looked very rehearsed sound bites with no real understanding. When he did get a run and got energised he was flitting between issues on a general attack on the government and on Mattie that lacked cohesion and got him heckled. I thought he looked tired and it may be true that he didn't want to stand but they couldn't find a replacement. But the Helen McGee WUAG member who spoke from the audience did well in her brief involvement and may have been a better option. They need to push her or someone like her to be the face of their little party before the next election (which could be within months).

Mattie McGrath at least made himself sound busy listing out everything he could think about. He was quick to give credit to a seemingly endless list of local community people for the work they were doing and while I’m not a fan of him it was honourable that he was giving them credit and not trying to take it for himself. His strength is local issues and by God was he on top of those issues.

Seamus and Mattie really seem to dislike each other more than they dislike the other candidates. Perhaps they figure there is only one seat between them.

Marie Murphy (FG): Cudos for turning up as the only Gov rep. But at times it was like watching pit bulls savaging a pet baby rabbit. She was only a late addition to the ticket to help the national gender quota and it showed. She was selected as the woman least likely to harm the chances of the sitting TDs and you could see that she lacked any real substance. She was seriously out of her depth especially on the mental health issue. The hyper lad from Cahir FG in the audience who led the hecklers spoke better than she did and he had an insane look in his eyes. After that any time he was shown in the audience he seemed to be constantly smiling while massaging his left breast which was one of the oddest things I’ve ever seen on TV. The other FG lad who seemed to be trying to blame the people for voting for the amalgamation because it was in the FG manifesto so therefore it's the people's fault not FG's fault should be brought aside by his party leadership and told never to speak in public again.

Michael Smith Jr (FF): You can see he is politically minded as he attacked the no show from the ministers. His two contributions were polished but seemed scripted and not relevant to what was being discussed at the time. He drifted out of the debate completely and Vincent had to drag him in for a second contribution. Adding him to the ticket may have been a big mistake.

Jackie Cahill (FF) was bland and passionless. He seemed utterly disinterested for much of the debate and struggled to be relevant. His strength was farming issues and that will get him votes but maybe not enough to take him over the line. Also he looked old. I don't know his actual age versus the likes of Healy and Hayes but I'd put a good 10 years more on him than them.

Siobhan Ambrose (FF): Needs to be faster to get to the point but her points about lack of public transportation, amalgamation of the various counties, crime etc were good. She needs media training. Her eyes wandered all over the place from person to person when on TV she should really speak to the moderator. But she was by far the most impressive Fianna Fáil candidate. They should throw some training her way and put a good team around her she could do better than most people expect.

That said I don't know which of the Fianna Fáil candidates will be elected if any. Cahill is too old and niche. Smith Jr has nothing going for him but his father. Ambrose may be their best hope in two elections time. But if Cahill or Smith Jr want to beat her this election may be their chance.

Seamus Morris (SF) spoke a lot but rambled. You could see him struggling to think off the cuff and formulate his arguments. Not knowing the difference between volatile and vulnerable was his most memorable input. He needs to be more on top of his subject matter. Overall it wasn't a great debate for Sinn Fein. The Sinn Fein young guy who stood up to ask the panel why his wife didn't get carers allowance to look after him didn't look like he needed full time care. Maybe he does but it didn't come across and it looked like he really just wanted more money from welfare. Face palm moment for SF there.

Another interesting point. Richie Molloy spoke from the audience but as an Independent NOT Renua. Has he left them already? I think we can take it now he is gone they won't be running anyone. Maybe he'll try the Social Democrats next. I think that would be Political Party Membership Bingo for him.

Alan Kelly was repeatedly attacked by Vincent, the panel and the audience. In fact he seemed to have no support at all. At least FG were organised enough to send hecklers. It was probably a no win situation for him but if he wants to be seen as some sort of a fighting leader who will lead Labour into battle in the future then his last moment wimp out from the debate may dent that image.

Lowry will be in trouble based on the reaction of the audience. Hopefully the media will continue Vincent's lead and highlight the fact that he has been found guilty of very serious crimes. But I suspect somehow he’ll still probably top the poll.

Hayes and Coonan were probably the big winners in the debate. The no show criticism was mainly on Kelly and Lowry. Could they hold two FG seats. Probably not. But before the debate that would have been certainly not. After that Mattie will have shored up his base and will now hold his seat.

I don't think the debate will have a huge impact on the result. The viewing audience is too small on TV3. I’ll still call it:
Lowry (sadly)
Mattie
FG seat (probably Hayes as the ministerial role could edge it for him over Coonan).
Left wing seat (Probably Healy as Morris doesn't seem to have what it takes to unseat him).
Real fight for the last seat between Kelly, Ambrose, Cahill, Smith Jr. and Coonan.

Xenophile

touts wrote: »

Ok. Finally got a chance tonight to sit down and watch the whole debate...........................................

Well done on your analysis of the debate and the work you put into producing it. Your contribution deserves to be published by at least a local newspaper, but sadly I think they are more concerned with their advertising revenue. Your account is accurate and with some editing which you would have to agree to it should be published.

touts

touts wrote: »

I don't think the debate will have a huge impact on the result. The viewing audience is too small on TV3. I’ll still call it:
Lowry (sadly)
Mattie
FG seat (probably Hayes as the ministerial role could edge it for him over Coonan).
Left wing seat (Probably Healy as Morris doesn't seem to have what it takes to unseat him).
Real fight for the last seat between Kelly, Ambrose, Cahill, Smith Jr. and Coonan.

Well done. An excellent post and analysis. I think this Election will be one of the most interesting in living memory.

touts

Xenophile wrote: »

Well done on your analysis of the debate and the work you put into producing it. Your contribution deserves to be published by at least a local newspaper, but sadly I think they are more concerned with their advertising revenue. Your account is accurate and with some editing which you would have to agree to it should be published.

Thanks. I can't see it being published though. There isn't a politician or party that would be happy with an honest analysis of the debate and they are likely to have greater sway with the editors than we would

jem

Part of the problem with the debate is that you cant realy see.
The procedure is that the sitting TD's sit apart from the others and are allowed in almost all the time.
The others sit together in a row and put out their hand at waist level and hope that VB will call them.
VB did seem to like ambrose as he seemed to let her in most and allowed her go on more than most.
The TD's were allowed to ramble on and on and ignore the 1 min bell that all were meant to keep to.
Smith was trying to get in and VB just wouldn't call him. So his second go at talking he tried to fit in as much as he could.

Have to also say that the mental health section went on far far too long and most that I have talked to were bored by the end of it.

Xenophile

PearlJ wrote: »

Yet again Xenophile, you show your lack of knowledge in local politics despite your own pomp. That was Declan Burgess. An arrogant little upstart in Fine Gael Youth. God help us all if that little **** ever makes it to National politics.
I thought he made an absolute fool of himself. He stood up to make some random statement about the Seanad election that h

I understand this guy is not yet twenty years of age, give him a break he has a lot to learn in his young life. Give him credit for having the courage to stand up and do his best to say his piece in an audience where every positive comment about the Government was jeered and booed.

touts

jem wrote: »

Part of the problem with the debate is that you cant realy see.
The procedure is that the sitting TD's sit apart from the others and are allowed in almost all the time.
The others sit together in a row and put out their hand at waist level and hope that VB will call them.
VB did seem to like ambrose as he seemed to let her in most and allowed her go on more than most.
The TD's were allowed to ramble on and on and ignore the 1 min bell that all were meant to keep to.
Smith was trying to get in and VB just wouldn't call him. So his second go at talking he tried to fit in as much as he could.

Have to also say that the mental health section went on far far too long and most that I have talked to were bored by the end of it.

I'll accept that it is hard to see what is really going on when watching on TV. However a number of times when they showed the panel you could see hands up. Ambrose, Cahill, and especially Morris regularly seemed to have theirs up looking to get back in. Morris had his hand up the most and accordingly seemed to get in the most (with the possible exception of Murphy who never had her hand up but that still didn't save her). I can't recall seeing Smith Jr having his hand up. Also he was in the prime slot right beside the TDs where Vincent, the crowd and the camera would all be looking and he just didn't do anything with that slot.

I'd agree the mental health section went on far too long. It was going around in circles at the end and Vincent really should have moved on to other topics. I came to the conclusion that this was the chosen topic for the debate. There were far too many mental health workers and patients with microphones in the audience for it to have been pure chance. I assume that the producers had picked this as the primary topic and had some invited speakers in the audience.

And Alan "I got a bus shelter for Bansha " Kelly,took shelter some where,to avoid the hard questions.Its very easy to be arrogant in sound bites into a reporters microphone,when theres no one to challenge him.Tom Hayes is another bull crapper..I look forward to their supporters knocking on the door.
To be honest ,I dont think any of them are worth a vote.

Tippjohn

Under twenty, that means he knows absolutely nothing. I thought I had a rough idea at 35, now at 60 I realise that besides being succesful I was in fact lightweight.
A lot of the trouble we have had over the last 30 years have been caused by "wizz kids" and the idiots who back them. Banks in particular.
A twenty year old would be best advised to do something and learn it well for the next decade, then see if they have something to offer.
Ignorance is bliss, we see it every day.
As for Tipperary, well we have nothing to offer in the way of world class leader. Thinking further have we such a thing in any county?
It would be better if we went back to looking after our country instead of pleasing those who don't even know our ways or indeed care.