General Elections. The Constituency of Tipperary

jem

touts wrote: »

I'll accept that it is hard to see what is really going on when watching on TV. However a number of times when they showed the panel you could see hands up. Ambrose, Cahill, and especially Morris regularly seemed to have theirs up looking to get back in. Morris had his hand up the most and accordingly seemed to get in the most (with the possible exception of Murphy who never had her hand up but that still didn't save her). I can't recall seeing Smith Jr having his hand up. Also he was in the prime slot right beside the TDs where Vincent, the crowd and the camera would all be looking and he just didn't do anything with that slot.

Unfortunatly that was the angle of the tv camera. I was siting just behind one of the camera men and Smiths hand was out all the time but everytime Vincent looked that direction he moved on to healy mcgrath.

touts wrote: »

I'd agree the mental health section went on far too long. It was going around in circles at the end and Vincent really should have moved on to other topics. I came to the conclusion that this was the chosen topic for the debate. There were far too many mental health workers and patients with microphones in the audience for it to have been pure chance. I assume that the producers had picked this as the primary topic and had some invited speakers in the audience.

Before filming Vincent went up and down the room looking for topics. He had a decent list with health only being part of same. Looked to me that the mental hospital issue is huge in clonmel and people kept talking about it when the filming started. often times largely repeating what a previous speaker said. Most in attendance was expecting Vincent to move on any min but he run and run and run..
Gas part was that in the pre filming more wanted to talk about housing and it didn't get a mention except by smith

danganabu

Tippjohn wrote: »

.
As for Tipperary, well we have nothing to offer in the way of world class leader. Thinking further have we such a thing in any county?

I would say Pearse Doherty is the single most impressive politician in the country unfortunately he is a member of a party I would not like to see in power at a national level, local politics they are extremely efficient and capable but at a national level they would be a disaster.

digzy

danganabu wrote: »

I would say Pearse Doherty is the single most impressive politician in the country unfortunately he is a member of a party I would not like to see in power at a national level, local politics they are extremely efficient and capable but at a national level they would be a disaster.

Of the front benches I think the sinn fein tds are the most eloquent and capable of the lot. There's a few strong performers in Fianna Fail like michael mc grath and michael martin.
Whatever about FF I'd never vote for sinn fein on economic grounds.

Tippjohn

Problem is I just don't trust SF. Grand ideas but who pays, us!

danganabu

Tippjohn wrote: »

Problem is I just don't trust SF. Grand ideas but who pays, us!

Agree 100% I don't agree with the party's economics and financial mandate, and thus would never vote for them at National level, but Doherty has always impressed me.

laoch na mona

I have the same problem with FF and FG, thier economic policies are so rooted in promoting inequality that I'll never vote for them

TheManFromTipp

touts wrote: »

Ok. Finally got a chance tonight to sit down and watch the whole debate.

Seamus Healy seemed to be a single issue candidate on water in his opening statement. As the debate went on was able to talk on other issues but he seriously lacked any depth and everything looked very rehearsed sound bites with no real understanding. When he did get a run and got energised he was flitting between issues on a general attack on the government and on Mattie that lacked cohesion and got him heckled. I thought he looked tired and it may be true that he didn't want to stand but they couldn't find a replacement. But the Helen McGee WUAG member who spoke from the audience did well in her brief involvement and may have been a better option. They need to push her or someone like her to be the face of their little party before the next election (which could be within months).

Mattie McGrath at least made himself sound busy listing out everything he could think about. He was quick to give credit to a seemingly endless list of local community people for the work they were doing and while I’m not a fan of him it was honourable that he was giving them credit and not trying to take it for himself. His strength is local issues and by God was he on top of those issues.

Seamus and Mattie really seem to dislike each other more than they dislike the other candidates. Perhaps they figure there is only one seat between them.

Marie Murphy (FG): Cudos for turning up as the only Gov rep. But at times it was like watching pit bulls savaging a pet baby rabbit. She was only a late addition to the ticket to help the national gender quota and it showed. She was selected as the woman least likely to harm the chances of the sitting TDs and you could see that she lacked any real substance. She was seriously out of her depth especially on the mental health issue. The hyper lad from Cahir FG in the audience who led the hecklers spoke better than she did and he had an insane look in his eyes. After that any time he was shown in the audience he seemed to be constantly smiling while massaging his left breast which was one of the oddest things I’ve ever seen on TV. The other FG lad who seemed to be trying to blame the people for voting for the amalgamation because it was in the FG manifesto so therefore it's the people's fault not FG's fault should be brought aside by his party leadership and told never to speak in public again.

Michael Smith Jr (FF): You can see he is politically minded as he attacked the no show from the ministers. His two contributions were polished but seemed scripted and not relevant to what was being discussed at the time. He drifted out of the debate completely and Vincent had to drag him in for a second contribution. Adding him to the ticket may have been a big mistake.

Jackie Cahill (FF) was bland and passionless. He seemed utterly disinterested for much of the debate and struggled to be relevant. His strength was farming issues and that will get him votes but maybe not enough to take him over the line. Also he looked old. I don't know his actual age versus the likes of Healy and Hayes but I'd put a good 10 years more on him than them.

Siobhan Ambrose (FF): Needs to be faster to get to the point but her points about lack of public transportation, amalgamation of the various counties, crime etc were good. She needs media training. Her eyes wandered all over the place from person to person when on TV she should really speak to the moderator. But she was by far the most impressive Fianna Fáil candidate. They should throw some training her way and put a good team around her she could do better than most people expect.

That said I don't know which of the Fianna Fáil candidates will be elected if any. Cahill is too old and niche. Smith Jr has nothing going for him but his father. Ambrose may be their best hope in two elections time. But if Cahill or Smith Jr want to beat her this election may be their chance.

Seamus Morris (SF) spoke a lot but rambled. You could see him struggling to think off the cuff and formulate his arguments. Not knowing the difference between volatile and vulnerable was his most memorable input. He needs to be more on top of his subject matter. Overall it wasn't a great debate for Sinn Fein. The Sinn Fein young guy who stood up to ask the panel why his wife didn't get carers allowance to look after him didn't look like he needed full time care. Maybe he does but it didn't come across and it looked like he really just wanted more money from welfare. Face palm moment for SF there.

Another interesting point. Richie Molloy spoke from the audience but as an Independent NOT Renua. Has he left them already? I think we can take it now he is gone they won't be running anyone. Maybe he'll try the Social Democrats next. I think that would be Political Party Membership Bingo for him.

Alan Kelly was repeatedly attacked by Vincent, the panel and the audience. In fact he seemed to have no support at all. At least FG were organised enough to send hecklers. It was probably a no win situation for him but if he wants to be seen as some sort of a fighting leader who will lead Labour into battle in the future then his last moment wimp out from the debate may dent that image.

Lowry will be in trouble based on the reaction of the audience. Hopefully the media will continue Vincent's lead and highlight the fact that he has been found guilty of very serious crimes. But I suspect somehow he’ll still probably top the poll.

Hayes and Coonan were probably the big winners in the debate. The no show criticism was mainly on Kelly and Lowry. Could they hold two FG seats. Probably not. But before the debate that would have been certainly not. After that Mattie will have shored up his base and will now hold his seat.

I don't think the debate will have a huge impact on the result. The viewing audience is too small on TV3. I’ll still call it:
Lowry (sadly)
Mattie
FG seat (probably Hayes as the ministerial role could edge it for him over Coonan).
Left wing seat (Probably Healy as Morris doesn't seem to have what it takes to unseat him).
Real fight for the last seat between Kelly, Ambrose, Cahill, Smith Jr. and Coonan.

Playing Devil's advocate,I think you should have said at the start "In my opinion"
All those who saw the debate have an opinion.When Siobhan Ambrose was speaking,she didn't look at Vincent all the time,she scanned the audience,she was trying to make a connection with the audience.After all,its those are the people she hopes to get votes from,not Vincent brown.but maybe you are a media trainer,and I may be wrong.
You say the chap who spoke of his wife not getting carers allowance for him,didnt look as if he needed it,how could you tell? How do you know what it took for him to be there,what he is going through,unless you are a medical professional,and even if you were,you wouldn't be able to tell from sitting in the audience.I agree with a lot of your post,and don't intend this as a criticism.I am non party,and don't see anyone really standing out.The same old faces are wheeled out time after time.We need young blood,but where it will come from is the question

Xenophile

TheManFromTipp wrote: »

The same old faces are wheeled out time after time.We need young blood,but where it will come from is the question

Yes a very good question, especially so in County Tipperary.


Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí. Praise a youth and she will come. Note: This proverb was coined many centuries before Dr. Benjamin Spock offered similar advice.

realdanbreen

digzy wrote: »

I think the sinn fein tds are the most eloquent and capable of the lot.

So you reckon Martin Ferris, Jonathan O'Brien & , Dessie Ellis are eloquent?

touts

TheManFromTipp wrote: »

Playing Devil's advocate,I think you should have said at the start "In my opinion"
All those who saw the debate have an opinion.When Siobhan Ambrose was speaking,she didn't look at Vincent all the time,she scanned the audience,she was trying to make a connection with the audience.After all,its those are the people she hopes to get votes from,not Vincent brown.but maybe you are a media trainer,and I may be wrong.
You say the chap who spoke of his wife not getting carers allowance for him,didnt look as if he needed it,how could you tell? How do you know what it took for him to be there,what he is going through,unless you are a medical professional,and even if you were,you wouldn't be able to tell from sitting in the audience.I agree with a lot of your post,and don't intend this as a criticism.I am non party,and don't see anyone really standing out.The same old faces are wheeled out time after time.We need young blood,but where it will come from is the question

Everything on boards is just the opinion of the poster. If you are looking for definitive 100% universally accepted facts you have to look elsewhere (although where that is beats me).

I'm not a media trainer but I have some public speaking courses for work. When addressing a hall and making a speech you scan the room. But on TV you speak to the moderator. Scanning the room looks odd on TV and staring at the TV is a bit too earnest. So you look at the moderator/interviewer. Its not much and I would put far more emphasis on what Ambrose said rather than how she said it. But I would recommend Fianna Fail send her for some training because she looks like the sort of young blood they need.

As to the Sinn Fein lad looking for carers allowance for his wife I'm only calling it as I saw it. I have no idea about what his background is and I said maybe he does need full time care. But that didn't come across to me and I would suspect I wasn't the only one.

touts

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon Martin Ferris, Jonathan O'Brien & , Dessie Ellis are eloquent?

Personally I fundamentally disagree with the brand of "you can have it all and we'll get someone else to pay for it" politics that Sinn Fein peddle. But I think some of their TDs are very eloquent. Not the ones you mentioned but the younger generation. Pearse Doherty scares the hell out of me because he makes the most bat **** crazy socialist rubbish sound like sound policy.

Tippjohn

And amongst it all FG refuses. MMs metal recycling bill. Something that would cut down on much crime. All tucked away into oblivion.

perry123

touts wrote: »

Everything on boards is just the opinion of the poster. If you are looking for definitive 100% universally accepted facts you have to look elsewhere (although where that is beats me).

I'm not a media trainer but I have some public speaking courses for work. When addressing a hall and making a speech you scan the room. But on TV you speak to the moderator. Scanning the room looks odd on TV and staring at the TV is a bit too earnest. So you look at the moderator/interviewer. Its not much and I would put far more emphasis on what Ambrose said rather than how she said it. But I would recommend Fianna Fail send her for some training because she looks like the sort of young blood they need.

As to the Sinn Fein lad looking for carers allowance for his wife I'm only calling it as I saw it. I have no idea about what his background is and I said maybe he does need full time care. But that didn't come across to me and I would suspect I wasn't the only one.

He said he has an auto immune problem which caused mental health issue. He may well need care, not everyone who needs care looks it. And I am not SF

In other news former Tipp Fm presenter seamus martin is yellow belly Kelly's campaign manager.

perry123

touts wrote: »

Everything on boards is just the opinion of the poster. If you are looking for definitive 100% universally accepted facts you have to look elsewhere (although where that is beats me).

I'm not a media trainer but I have some public speaking courses for work. When addressing a hall and making a speech you scan the room. But on TV you speak to the moderator. Scanning the room looks odd on TV and staring at the TV is a bit too earnest. So you look at the moderator/interviewer. Its not much and I would put far more emphasis on what Ambrose said rather than how she said it. But I would recommend Fianna Fail send her for some training because she looks like the sort of young blood they need.

As to the Sinn Fein lad looking for carers allowance for his wife I'm only calling it as I saw it. I have no idea about what his background is and I said maybe he does need full time care. But that didn't come across to me and I would suspect I wasn't the only one.

That was Warren Dunne Roscrea.
He said he has an auto immune problem which caused mental health issues, anxiety,depression diagnosed with ocd "last week". He may well need care, not everyone who needs care looks it. And I am not SF supporter.

In other news former Tipp Fm presenter Seamus Martin is yellow belly Kelly's campaign manager.

perry123

i posted the last message twice by mistake it won' t delete, sorry. the right one is timed 23.56

Xenophile

perry123 wrote: »

In other news former Tipp Fm presenter seamus martin is yellow belly Kelly's campaign manager.

First of all if you are going to refer to him by anything other than his name, note that he has been given the nick name AK 47 .

It has been unbelievable the amount of flak Kelly get's here, as he is the only candidate with cabinet potential.

It was a very smart move to appoint Seamus Martin as his campaign manager. Seamus who had been working with Tipp FM up to this year, for almost twenty five years on arguably the stations most popular programme covering North and South Tipperary.

Seamus Martin has built up many contacts and fans down through the years and I have no doubt he will put all his resources to work for the now, what would reappear to be certain the re-election of Alan Kelly to Dail Eireann.

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

Tippjohn

Kelly is nothing else but a career politician. Look him up on the net. No experience of ither the ndustrial or commercial world. His achievements seem to be self motivated and he has done nothing positive for the country or the workers that pay him IMHO.
Cabinet potential sums him up. Look at the cabinet, not one who inspres confidence.

perry123

Xenophile wrote: »

First of all if you are going to refer to him by anything other than his name, note that he has been given the nick name AK 47 .

It has been unbelievable the amount of flak Kelly get's here, as he is the only candidate with cabinet potential.

It was a very smart move to appoint Seamus Martin as his campaign manager. Seamus who had been working with Tipp FM up to this year, for almost twenty five years on arguably the stations most popular programme covering North and South Tipperary.

Seamus Martin has built up many contacts and fans down through the years and I have no doubt he will put all his resources to work for the now, what would reappear to be certain the re-election of Alan Kelly to Dail Eireann.

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

It is not for you to say what i call yellow belly kelly running from vincent browne. seamus martin is the the so called journalist that did seminars telling councillors how not to asnwers questions on radio. talk about running with the hounds...

Xenophile

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

perry123

Xenophile wrote: »

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

do you think you are the only one who knows how these politicians think?

Xenophile

Originally Posted by Xenophile View Post

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

perry123 wrote: »

do you think you are the only one who knows how these politicians think?

Glad to see that you have no argument with this.

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.

Now they want to use our Senate to give a job to Seamus Martin.
The Labour party are now putting the old FF cronyism to shame.


It will be interesting how labour will think they will be able to swing that stroke when they are a 7 seat party with no representative in Tipperary!


I think Kelly may be looking for that stroke of Enda for himself in the next round of Senate nominees/cronyism if Enda doesn't try to nominate another relative.

Xenophile

tipptom wrote: »

Now they want to use our Senate to give a job to Seamus Martin.
The Labour party are now putting the old FF cronyism to shame.


It will be interesting how labour will think they will be able to swing that stroke when they are a 7 seat party with no representative in Tipperary!


I think Kelly may be looking for that stroke of Enda for himself in the next round of Senate nominees/cronyism if Enda doesn't try to nominate another relative.

Now they want to use our Senate to give a job to Seamus Martin.
Where did you get this idea?

The people voted to retain the Senate when Enda Kenny wanted to abolish it.

A prominent bookmaker is quoting 4/7 on Kelly to retain his seat. These odds will probably shorten when they find out that Seamus Martin has been appointed campaign manager.

Interesting to see that you are predicting that Enda Kenny will be Taoiseach after the next election.

perry123

Xenophile wrote: »

Originally Posted by Xenophile View Post

What's in for Seamus Martin ? He is a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it! Or maybe or even possibly a Labour nomination to Seanad Eireann after this election.



Glad to see that you have no argument with this.

i did not say i had no argument with it. i asked you a question you could not answer like your pal yellow b you avoided it. You seem to think no one understands how politicians think only you and that you are some sort of pedagogue . there is nothing of any depth in that statement re martin " a shoe in as a County Councillor in the next Local Election if he decides he wants it!"

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

Now they want to use our Senate to give a job to Seamus Martin.
Where did you get this idea?

The people voted to retain the Senate when Enda Kenny wanted to abolish it.

A prominent bookmaker is quoting 4/7 on Kelly to retain his seat. These odds will probably shorten when they find out that Seamus Martin has been appointed campaign manager.

Interesting to see that you are predicting that Enda Kenny will be Taoiseach after the next election.

The people did not vote to retain the Senate,they just voted against what Kenny wanted to do and the powers he wanted,and what has that got to do with cronyism and Labour nominating a gombeen like Martin.


Prominent bookmakers have not a clue of how despised Kelly is within the Labour party in Tipperary never mind among theTipperary general electorate and they don't forget his pledges and his party's pledges and no amount of bus shelters and trains to the All Ireland will change that.


You obviously know as much about bookmakers odds as your election predictions if you think 4/7 is good odds and an indicator the AK will hang on to his seat.Im still waiting on you to come back to me on your offer that AK will have twice as much votes as Mattie McGrath and Seamus Socialist and that bet.


How is it interesting that I would predict EK will be taosaigh after the next GE?,its just a matter for him to find new coalition partners after the annihilation of his current partners and their ministers

Xenophile

tipptom wrote: »

The people did not vote to retain the Senate,they just voted against what Kenny wanted to do and the powers he wanted,and what has that got to do with cronyism and Labour nominating a gombeen like Martin.


Prominent bookmakers have not a clue of how despised Kelly is within the Labour party in Tipperary never mind among theTipperary general electorate and they don't forget his pledges and his party's pledges and no amount of bus shelters and trains to the All Ireland will change that.


You obviously know as much about bookmakers odds as your election predictions if you think 4/7 is good odds and an indicator the AK will hang on to his seat.Im still waiting on you to come back to me on your offer that AK will have twice as much votes as Mattie McGrath and Seamus Socialist and that bet.


How is it interesting that I would predict EK will be taosaigh after the next GE?,its just a matter for him to find new coalition partners after the annihilation of his current partners and their ministers

I voted to retain the Senate as most people did.

There is no Labour Party as such in Tipperary, the Labour Party was founded in Clonmel in 1912, yet at the centenary of their founding in 2012 the local Labour Party could not muster enough support to hold a celebration.

By the way I never made you any offer. If you want to place a bet get on to a betting site.

4/7 is not good odds that's why I think he is favoured to hold on to his seat.

You say a gombeen like Martin..................his track record of presenting Tipp FM's only current affairs programme for 25 years would say otherwise.

tipptom

Xenophile wrote: »

I voted to retain the Senate as most people did.

There is no Labour Party as such in Tipperary, the Labour Party was founded in Clonmel in 1912, yet at the centenary of their founding in 2012 the local Labour Party could not muster enough support to hold a celebration.

By the way I never made you any offer. If you want to place a bet get on to a betting site.

4/7 is not good odds that's why I think he is favoured to hold on to his seat.

You say a gombeen like Martin..................his track record of presenting Tipp FM's only current affairs programme for 25 years would say otherwise.

Woah,that would have to make him a shoo in for Labours pick for the taosaighs crony nominations for the senate but for Labour looking for a retirement home for a about 30 soon to be exTDs and ministers,think this may trump seamuses spiffing cv for the Senate as outlayed above.

GoldFour4

Tippjohn wrote: »

Kelly is nothing else but a career politician. Look him up on the net. No experience of ither the ndustrial or commercial world. His achievements seem to be self motivated and he has done nothing positive for the country or the workers that pay him IMHO.
Cabinet potential sums him up. Look at the cabinet, not one who inspres confidence.

Not a labour supporter but this is an absolute lie. He's been a politician for most of his life but worked as an e-business manager for years with bord failte. Why would you mention that though, doesn't suit your agenda so you'll just ignore it.

digzy

malistheman wrote: »

Not a labour supporter but this is an absolute lie. He's been a politician for most of his life but worked as an e-business manager for years with bord failte. Why would you mention that though, doesn't suit your agenda so you'll just ignore it.

I wouldn't vote labour in a fit, but I really don't get the level of vitriol against Alan Kelly. It's easy for Sinn Fein-ira, Healy, mc grath and Fianna Fáil to sling mud at him. If truth be told the government basically implemented the previous ones fiscal policy, so that's Fianna Fáil lacking credibility. The other boyos are glorified county councillors and 'personable' fellas, which if that's your thing in a member of our national parliament fair enough. A for Sinn Fein -ira, they can spout their populist nonsense away as they know they won't be in government next time.

With any luck we'll get a ff/fg coalition and Fine Gael won't have to be 'driving with the handbrake on' as they've to do now with labour.

Tippjohn

And Bord Failte is.... A national authourity doh A glorified quango.