Tractors at rush hour

Lambofdave

cantdecide wrote: »

I don't believe anyone has posted a pro-tractor post that could declare that they have no connections with the agriculture and plant/ machinery world past or present. This makes certain suggestions to me.

That really says it all about you.



Im sorry my opinion is lesser or invalid due to the fact I drive a tractor (and cars), yes i know my place now won't bother you again boss. I will bow and genuflect to you the chosen road user who can only choose who's right to have an opinion based on your chosen bias.

keithclancy

cantdecide wrote: »

You're point is unclear. Are you saying tractor at rush hour is all the same because shockwaves happen regardless?

Out of curiosity, are you connected in some way to agriculture and/ or plant & machinery world or are you impartial and unbiased?

No, I have no connection with Argricultural / plant machinery.

I drive almost every day on Dutch Snelweg/German Autobahn

On a motorway where the traffic reaches a certain density reducing the speed limit actually improves the flow of traffic.

On a German Motorway traffic can come to a complete standstill purely because someone 4-5 kilometers up the road tapped their brakes.

On a Dutch Motorway they have variable speed limits, so when the traffic is heavy enough the speed reduces from 130/120 to 80, then to 50 and if its really bad down to 30.

An Irish/German road without variable speed limit for traffic you'll sit standing still with nothing after happening up the road (Accident/Breakdown)

On a Dutch Motorway the traffic will just move very slowly but will not stop.

My point was that a slow moving vehicle like a tractor on an Irish Dual Carriage way would be safer at rush hour because the speed differential would be lower (cars passing the tractor in the overtaking lane at 100-120km/h) whereas as rush hour the traffic would be slow moving anyway.

The individuals perception of what is faster/safer and what is actually faster/safer are two different things.

Another example would be slip roads on dual carriageways, when joining traffic on the dual carriageway someone will indicate and stop at the very start of the slip road, this wastes the entire slip road.

Then if people use the slip road properly people don't allow them to join the dual carriageway because its seen as some sort of imaginary queue.

TheChizler

SpaceTime wrote: »

All of the traffic was undertaking him in the left lane.

The problem is, if he realizes his mistake, he can't move back into the left lane safely due to people overtaking on the left. Catch 22.

AugustusMinimus

TheChizler wrote: »

The problem is, if he realizes his mistake, he can't move back into the left lane safely due to people overtaking on the left. Catch 22.

I bet the guy didn't even attempt to move left. A simple indication would do the trick.

SpaceTime

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I bet the guy didn't even attempt to move left. A simple indication would do the trick.

Yeah, basically he was sitting there kinda eyes straight ahead waving people around him and shaking his fist when they flashed their headlights at him!

He quite absolutely no idea how to use multiple lanes and felt that he should be able to drive at whatever speed he liked and that everyone else was wrong.

j8wk2feszrnpao

SpaceTime wrote: »

Yeah, basically he was sitting there kinda eyes straight ahead waving people around him and shaking his fist when they flashed their headlights at him!

He quite absolutely no idea how to use multiple lanes and felt that he should be able to drive at whatever speed he liked and that everyone else was wrong.

His car probably gets NCT tested every year; and yet the most important component hasn't be tested for a few decades.

solargain

justice at last http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tractor-driver-who-caused-11km-tailback-banned-from-driving-672090.html

Ludo

solargain wrote: »

justice at last http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tractor-driver-who-caused-11km-tailback-banned-from-driving-672090.html

Only vaguley related to this thread though.

Also...11km...80-100 cars? That's one car every 100 metres? something not right there :-)

Outkast_IRE

munstermagic11 wrote: »

His car probably gets NCT tested every year; and yet the most important component hasn't be tested for a few decades.

Quite right, a start would be to even make people do the theory test every few years.

keithclancy

solargain wrote: »

justice at last http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tractor-driver-who-caused-11km-tailback-banned-from-driving-672090.html

Indeed, justice for someone that can't be arsed to pay the fixed penalty or turn up for a court summons.

SomeFool

Garda Boyle gave evidence that after overtaking between 80 and 100 vehicles he got to the tractor and trailer which was keeping traffic to about 20 kilometres per hour.

Seem about as safe as a slow moving vehicle :pac:

Dozer Dave

That case is growing some legs, 11km tail back now.

Ludo

Dozer Dave wrote: »

That case is growing some legs, 11km tail back now.

I assume rather than a 11km line of cars they may have meant he held up the cars while he drove for 11km. If there was only a hundred cars that is what they must mean.

mik_da_man

In all fairness that case has very little to do with this discussion apart from the fact that he was driving a tractor.

If he took the guards advice on board and wasn't d1ck to him and paid the fine, then nothing would have happened.

In fairness the vast majority of tractor drivers are a lot more considerate than this guy.

And apart from that, if you can't overtake a tractor over 11km of a national road then you shouldn't be driving imo..

jimgoose

"Oi drove moi tractor in yer 'ay-barn last noight, Ooh-Aarr Ooh-Aarrrr..."

clerk

SpaceTime wrote: »

All of the traffic was undertaking him in the left lane.

A friend of my wife was giving out that she was doing 120km in the fast lane on the motorway and people starting beebing at her. She was of the view that the speed limit was 120km so she was perfectly entitled and that basically these people were aggressive lunatics to which she wouldn't give in to. I asked her what happened and she these lunatics started passing her on the inside lane which of course she said was very dangerous.

I asked her did she not consider the fast lane to be an overtaking lane and that you pull in when you are not over taking but she was having none of that, the speed limit was brought up again !!!

I asked her would it not be safer to pull in seeing as cars started passing her out on the inside lane but she said she wouldn't give in to lunatics.

clerk

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tractor-driver-who-caused-11km-tailback-banned-from-driving-672090.html

Tractor driver who caused 11km tailback banned from driving

A tractor driver who caused an 11-kilometre tailback on a national primary road involving 80–100 vehicles was fined €300 and banned from driving for a year by a District Court Judge.
Judge Mary Devins was told by Garda John Boyle at Castlebar District Court that on June 20 last he came across “a convoy” of vehicles travelling eastwards on the N5 outside Westport which were held up by a tractor towing a trailer which contained a mechanical digger.

Garda Boyle gave evidence that after overtaking between 80 and 100 vehicles he got to the tractor and trailer which was keeping traffic to about 20 kilometres per hour.
The witness said that when he spoke to the tractor driver, Brian McGuinness, of The Grove, Castlebar, the defendant told him he thought he had pulled in earlier to let traffic go by.
Garda Boyle said that when he told the tractor driver he would be “getting a ticket”, the driver replied “sound”.
However, the garda witness said the fixed charge notice issue had never been paid.
The defendant, McGuinness, did not appear in court last week to answer the charge.
Judge Devins commented that everybody has to exercise a little consideration on the road. She added that the evidence of Garda Boyle about having to pass 80-100 vehicles was most dramatic in nature.
The Judge fined McGuinness €300 in his absence and disqualified him from driving for 12 months.

SpaceTime

clerk wrote: »

A friend of my wife was giving out that she was doing 120km in the fast lane on the motorway and people starting beebing at her. She was of the view that the speed limit was 120km so she was perfectly entitled and that basically these people were aggressive lunatics to which she wouldn't give in to. I asked her what happened and she these lunatics started passing her on the inside lane which of course she said was very dangerous.

I asked her did she not consider the fast lane to be an overtaking lane and that you pull in when you are not over taking but she was having none of that, the speed limit was brought up again !!!

I asked her would it not be safer to pull in seeing as cars started passing her out on the inside lane but she said she wouldn't give in to lunatics.

It's not her job to control the speed. Leave that up to the Gardai

farmerjj

clerk wrote: »

A friend of my wife was giving out that she was doing 120km in the fast lane on the motorway and people starting beebing at her. She was of the view that the speed limit was 120km so she was perfectly entitled and that basically these people were aggressive lunatics to which she wouldn't give in to. I asked her what happened and she these lunatics started passing her on the inside lane which of course she said was very dangerous.

I asked her did she not consider the fast lane to be an overtaking lane and that you pull in when you are not over taking but she was having none of that, the speed limit was brought up again !!!

I asked her would it not be safer to pull in seeing as cars started passing her out on the inside lane but she said she wouldn't give in to lunatics.

Your wife,s friend is a danger on the road, somebody might give her a pre,s of a few driven lesson for her birthday might be a nice idea.:(

mordeith

farmerjj wrote: »

Your wife,s friend is a danger on the road, somebody might give her a pre,s of a few driven lesson for her birthday might be a nice idea.:(

She'd only be entitled to that stance if she was overtaking slower traffic on the inside lane. Other than that she shoulda moved over.

SpaceTime

keithclancy wrote: »

Indeed, justice for someone that can't be arsed to pay the fixed penalty or turn up for a court summons.

Sounds more like the judge got annoyed that he didn't show up than anything else. I've seen that in traffic court while sitting in when a buddy of mine had to go because they had 100% genuinely not received many fixed point charge notice. They'd a clean licence and picked up two points so had no motive for not paying or trying to get out of it. The case was dismissed - clerical error by the RSA system or non delivery by An Post.

Anyway, a couple of people sent solicitors and didn't show up and he had very little sympathy for their excuses and generally they just got fined / whatever was coming to them.

People who just didn't show at all simply got pretty much whatever the maximum penalty was. Where it was a serious offence like dangerous driving he actually issued a bench warrant.

Genuine mix ups with paperwork and procedures were treated very reasonably and people got lots of opportunities to put things right.
In the 30 mins I was watching quite a few cases were struck out but about 6 people were disqualified (mostly for no insurance).

The main message I took from it is : turn up!!

marno21

The N25 and N22 should be redesignated as motorway for their HQDC sections. Having a 120km/h limit yet still having cyclists, tractors and L drivers is lunacy.

While I'd like the N40 to be redesignated motorway I don't think parts of it (eg Douglas flyover) are upto motorway standards. When Dunkettle is sorted & the North Ring Road is built there's a solid case for redesignating it. It's not suitable for pedestrians, cyclists or tractors

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

The N25 and N22 should be redesignated as motorway for their HQDC sections. Having a 120km/h limit yet still having cyclists, tractors and L drivers is lunacy.

While I'd like the N40 to be redesignated motorway I don't think parts of it (eg Douglas flyover) are upto motorway standards. When Dunkettle is sorted & the North Ring Road is built there's a solid case for redesignating it. It's not suitable for pedestrians, cyclists or tractors

Having sections without hard shoulders makes it all the more important to have motorway restrictions.

The port tunnel doesn't have a breakdown lane and is still a motorway.

SpaceTime

The N40 isn't any less of a motorway than the M50. They're just busy urban motorways with a lot of junctions.

Allowing cyclists on the N40 is crazy. It's frightening to see bikes cycling across complex, very busy merges.

Also there's a network of cycle lanes and alternative routes that are much shorter than the N40. The main purpose of an urban ring is to provide large capacity for cars. The bikes aren't impacted by traffic jams on normal urban routes and don't need to use these roads.

I've seen bikes in the Jack Lynch Tunnel at least 3 times this month too!

TINA1984

clerk wrote: »

A friend of my wife was giving out that she was doing 120km in the fast lane on the motorway and people starting beebing at her. She was of the view that the speed limit was 120km so she was perfectly entitled and that basically these people were aggressive lunatics to which she wouldn't give in to. I asked her what happened and she these lunatics started passing her on the inside lane which of course she said was very dangerous.

I asked her did she not consider the fast lane to be an overtaking lane and that you pull in when you are not over taking but she was having none of that, the speed limit was brought up again !!!

I asked her would it not be safer to pull in seeing as cars started passing her out on the inside lane but she said she wouldn't give in to lunatics.

Silly woman.

Ludo

Encountered a bike earlier when I was merging onto the n40 eastbound from South link. Heavy enough traffic at 2pm. He caused chaos as people tried to merge round him while he plodded on happily giving everyone who hooted him the finger. Tractors are much less of a danger than idiots like him. At least you can see a tractor easily.

SpaceTime

I've had this discussion with a few people who I would describe as cycling fundamentalists- they're not your normal cyclist or your pro or hobbiest cyclist, they're out to prove a point and often with a head mounted go pro camera too!

They're cycling on the N40 because it's technically legal (the tunnel isn't).

Reality or safety doesn't come into it. It's about proving a point, even if it puts their lives at risk.

Similar mentality to the "I'm going to make them all drive at the speed limit" woman above. Just even more dangerous!

clerk

farmerjj wrote: »

Your wife,s friend is a danger on the road, somebody might give her a pre,s of a few driven lesson for her birthday might be a nice idea.:(

I agree with you but the fact is there are plenty of people out there that don't understand the rules of the road.

I was in a car with a 28 Year old male another time, who had a full driving license and he kept over taking at crazy spots on the road, I wasn't too happy in the passenger seat I would say.

I asked him casually did he know what the double white lines in the middle of the road mean ? and he said "yes - it means be careful when overtaking".

smurgen

seen the most dangerous/ridiculous thing i've seen on the south link yesterday.Woman in a nissan micra pulled over it the bollard by exit 10 for mahon point.Put on the hazards and a dude got out with a bag and waked up the exit.Mental.

ofcork

I see mary smithwick had a column on the echo yesterday echoing the sentiments here.