Home visit

BillBen

Applied for a restricted rifle 2 weeks ago and got a call from the local sergeant today. He said he was ringing me about my application and wants to check out my security. Is he putting the cart before the horse. I thought that you only get a home visit after you've gone to see the chief super.

Cass

Nope.

When you fill out the FCA1 you tick the box that declares you have fulfilled the necessary security requirements
(for all your firearms, including the one you are seeking). If you've ticked the box and don't then it's a fraudulent application (sounds worse than it is), and if you don't have the security you should have got it installed before ticking the box. Then submitting your application.

You must have the minimum security for the amount and type of firearms you apply for in place before applying. If the Super or Ch.Super wants more then s/he'll ask for it to be installed before continuing with your application.


I'm in the saame boat myself. I have re-applied to get my pistol back, and stuck in an application for a semi auto rifle (proposals are not law). Got a call the other day from the C.Super's office to say they have the applications, checked some info and told me they'd be back onto me. However i supplied a detailed list of my current security setup which exceeds level four and in some cases some gun shops.

BillBen

Cheers cass. I've got the required security. It is just it took them 4-5 months to check out my house when I applied for my leaver action. Alls good so

Wadi14

and don't be surprised later down the line of the application if you get a call saying the Crime Prevention Officer is visiting

BillBen

Hopefully the application will move alog quickly if it's taken them two weeks to contact me. Then next hurdle will be getting the licence

Cass

I've found the only delay in restricted licenses (for me) was getting a time the Ch. Super was free to conduct the meeting. As s/he only deals with restricted applications, and they are far less common than standard applications, they are not as tied up with numerous applications so can process them slightly faster.

I'm hoping mine goes smoothly. I've put forward as good an application as i can, all the details i can give, etc. Fingers crossed it all goes well for the both of us.

BillBen

Fingers crossed cass. And now that I have a new Cs hopefully it won't be a painful as the last time.

Cass

Something similar. The Ch.Super in my area is not so much new as i haven't dealt with him since he took the post after CS Moore retired.

Moore was spot on. Fair, and thorough but never gave me any issues once i showed good reason. Hoping for the same.

tikkahunter

Cass wrote: »

Something similar. The Ch.Super in my area is not so much new as i haven't dealt with him since he took the post after CS Moore retired.

Moore was spot on. Fair, and thorough but never gave me any issues once i showed good reason. Hoping for the same.

Thats all you can ask for in a super ,the way i have always looked at it is they treat everybody like a criminal till you prove them otherwise,some go more overboard than others , they always throw you a curve ball in an interview to see how you react, it seems to be common with one particular station in Dublin, i was given a few testing questions and when my wife was going for the gaurds he grilled her ,she came out in tears , think she knew then that teacher would be the best option for her , same with my brother in law when he was thrown a few antagonizing questions.
Most of the time with the house visits with the ordinary firearms officer they are in and out and dont really know what they are looking at

Pedro K

I'm waiting on a call myself. Have the safe fitted and all. Waiting a while now.

Has anyone ever gotten the licence without the Gardai coming out to view the safe?

Witcher

Pedro K wrote: »

I'm waiting on a call myself. Have the safe fitted and all. Waiting a while now.

Has anyone ever gotten the licence without the Gardai coming out to view the safe?

Never been visited for any of my licences, don't actually know anybody that has either.

German pointer

I had 3 firearms 2 rifles and a shotgun and only got my first visit when subbing one of them

270WIN

A crime prevention officer called to me about 14 years ago when i applied for a 243. i had a semi auto shotgun in the safe. he pulled it out and said what kind of RIFLE was that...i explained that it was a shotgun...he then said " i thought all shotguns had 2 barrels and rifles had only 1"...thats a fact..he hadnt a clue but he passed me anyway....

meathstevie

270WIN wrote: »

A crime prevention officer called to me about 14 years ago when i applied for a 243. i had a semi auto shotgun in the safe. he pulled it out and said what kind of RIFLE was that...i explained that it was a shotgun...he then said " i thought all shotguns had 2 barrels and rifles had only 1"...thats a fact..he hadnt a clue but he passed me anyway....

And rightly so, saw a decent safe and that's what he was there to see. As a bonus he left with his firearms knowledge slightly enhanced.

2011

Many of the people that I shoot with never had a home inspection at the address that they live at, or had one many years ago or only had an inspection after more than 10 years of shooting.
Which is quite surprising "In light of public safety concerns highlighted by An Garda Síochána". It is as though AGS are not really concerned about legally held firearms at all :rolleyes:

At a guess I was shooting for close to 20 years during which time I lived at 3 different addresses before I had a home inspection.

Cass

Pedro K wrote: »

Has anyone ever gotten the licence without the Gardai coming out to view the safe?

I only got the home inspection when i first applied for the pistol back in 2004 (IIRC). Nothing since.

juice1304

I never had one and i was raging because i spent about €3g on my arrangements. ha

Mississippi.

I had a visit for the rifles but not the shotgun, but one of them is only an air rifle. FO said when the word rifle is on the application you get a home visit.
He said shotguns were far handier done.

amadablam

I've had my fair share of rifles and shotguns over the years and I only got a visit last year when I moved to a different area.

The visit went well as my security is pretty high and the inspecting officer was complimentary enough to say that with future applications, i dont have to meet him and just post them to him to be processed.

True to his word, the last two rifles went through rapidly.

BillBen

Had my inspection and all I can say is ffs. Not happy with my alarm even though he told me the last time he was out that he was very happy. Now I've to upgrade if I want my application to make it to the Cs desk.

Cass

What alarm have you. Don't need specifics, just is it house, room or safe alarm?

BillBen

Monitored alarm. Pir in rooms and at safe. He said because I already have a restricted firearm that I need to upgrade

Cass

Full house alarm? Or is it just the room/safe?

BillBen

It's a full house alarm. The thing is it hasn't changed since the last time he came to the house. And at his last visit he was very happy with my arrangements so don't know what's changed.

Cass

I ask because i'm curious as to what he wants.

Did he name or specify what he thought were "failures" in the system that needed improving? Surely he was not so vague as to say "upgrade"?

What else can you do to upgrade?

BillBen

Because the system I have is wireless and I have pir's that cover the windows, doors front and back he wants me to put contacts on all of the windows and doors as well at a cost of 65-70 a sensor plus labour. So I'm looking at a significant cost to do what he wants.

BillBen

And that only gets me as far as my meeting with the cs

Cass

Balls.

Don't mind me asking so many questions. I'm expecting the same shortly and without being nasty i testing you to see where i might be short in my own. I have:

• Contacts on every window/door
• Sensor on the same
• PIR at back door, front door, hall
• CCTV covering all areas of the property
• Wireless backup
• Monitored

Not going into what i have in terms of safes, etc. but that should cover the alarm requirements.

tikkahunter

BillBen wrote: »

Because the system I have is wireless and I have pir's that cover the windows, doors front and back he wants me to put contacts on all of the windows and doors as well at a cost of 65-70 a sensor plus labour. So I'm looking at a significant cost to do what he wants.

The wireless ones are very handy to tune in , just read the manual and go step by step it will save you a bit on labour anyway, you are at their mercy sometimes so gritted teeth is needed when you would like to give them an earful

BillBen

I reckon he is trying to put me off with the extra cost alright. He said that he wants paper work when it done by an authorised installer so no hope of doing it myself. And before he left his said that I've to change the locks in my house and I will have to get a safe put into the car. Lol

BillBen

I'd say the next thing will be cctv

hexosan

Where does it say in the act that a safe in the car is needed.

juice1304

hexosan wrote: »

Where does it say in the act that a safe in the car is needed.

They are allowed ask for anything they like in the interest of public safety. He is obviously applying for a restricted firearm so they see the need to up his security, i was asked for the same with my restricted shotgun. I think they are pretty sensible requirements, i actually had them in place before they were asked, bar the safe in the car.

BillBen

I already have a restricted firearm and my current security was ok. He said because I'm applying for a second restricted rifle I need to up my alarm

Sparks

BillBen wrote: »

I already have a restricted firearm and my current security was ok. He said because I'm applying for a second restricted rifle I need to up my alarm

He's right about there being an increase at the second restricted firearm though, see the table here:

3|Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms.|Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.

Baker.22

Had call out yesterday, as I have applied for fourth non-restricted license, very pleasant, here for 2-3 minutes, just quick check of safe and Alarm which is vibration sensors fitted on all external doors and windows

Jayzesake

Does anyone know of an alarm system that can be used specifically in conjunction with a gun safe?

I have a Yale telecommunicating house alarm for the external doors and windows, as well as a PIR in the room with the safe, but I'm thinking about adding an extra alarm activated only by any tampering with the gun safe, if such a thing exists?

Cass

It's been over 20 years since i worked in or around alarms and no doubt things have changed but could a contact and/or sensor not be ran to the gun safes, and then have them o a different zone? This way it could be alarmed during the day when you're in and covered with the rest of the house when you're out?

The other issue is even if this can be done what good is it? If someone breaks into the house then the alarm has already been set off so an additional zone to the safes seems redundant.

When i moved house i went to my local station and told them i'm a firearm owner. If my house alarm goes off and the call comes in to quick step it up to the house.

Jayzesake

The reason for wanting something directly attached to the safe is that the diy Yale alarm I have doesn't have sensors for every window in the house. So rather than going to the trouble and expense of getting a new more comprehensive alarm system for the whole house, the thinking would be to leave the present system in place and put something extra in to make the gun safe more secure.

Wadi14

Jayzesake wrote: »

Does anyone know of an alarm system that can be used specifically in conjunction with a gun safe?

I have a Yale telecommunicating house alarm for the external doors and windows, as well as a PIR in the room with the safe, but I'm thinking about adding an extra alarm activated only by any tampering with the gun safe, if such a thing exists?

Im no expert on alarms but if your looking to install it yourself you could get an additional external door sensor and add it to the inside of your safe and link it to your existing alarm, or get a separate system and link it to the safe independent of your house, but your doubling up on alarms to do that, if your monitored you can have the safe monitored too.

2011

Cass wrote: »

It's been over 20 years since i worked in or around alarms and no doubt things have changed but could a contact and/or sensor not be ran to the gun safes, and then have them o a different zone? This way it could be alarmed during the day when you're in and covered with the rest of the house when you're out?

Yes this can be done.
I installed my own alarm and have done this on mine.
A separate code is required to disarm the safe than for the rest of the house, I am the only person that knows this code.
From a security point of view it is important to have the contact & magnet fitted inside the safe (not externally). The contact can only activate the alarm if the door of the safe is opened (i.e. when someone has gained access to the safe). That is why I think it is a good idea to install an inertia shock sensor as well. This will detect any vibration to the safe such as that caused by drilling, banging or grinding, prising the safe off the wall etc.

The other issue is even if this can be done what good is it? If someone breaks into the house then the alarm has already been set off so an additional zone to the safes seems redundant.

Correct.
The problem is that all too often alarms are not set. This can be for a verity of reason ranging form simply forgetting to thinking "sure I was only popping out for 5 minutes".
The advantage of this is that the gun safe zone is still armed. It is cheap and easy option that provides another level of security.



Note: I do not work in the security industry.

Jayzesake

Thanks 2011, those are excellent suggestions to be mulling over.

Sequence 365

Just following your thread
If any body needs some advice in relation to there security systems. I would be more than happy to help.
I am in the industry some 20 years now and we are fully registered & certified .

Just for example : Just say we fit a new security system in your house and it is connected to the monitoring station which a lot of people are going down this route now.
Upon completion we must fill out a few forms.
One of which is called an RC1A form. We must fill in all your details & our reg no,s
The monitoring station put in there reg nos & sign
***The client must tick a box if they have Fire Arms on the premises & they must sign the same.
We have to tell the Gardai on the form if there is maintenance, gsm / radio back up & if the system is to standard.

Basically now and for some time if your alarm is monitored the Gardai have to know if there are Fire Arms on the premises

Hope this gives a little insight

Dozer Dave

A PSA registered company to install your alarm would be essential, the day of the diyer installing alarms are gone thankfully.

2011

Dozer Dave wrote: »

A PSA registered company to install your alarm would be essential, the day of the diyer installing alarms are gone thankfully.

Not true in every case.
I am speaking from personal experience.

When I demonstrated the operation of my alarm system and various security systems to the AGS crime prevention officer I explained that I installed it and maintain it myself. I also made it clear that I am not PSA registered. He accepted that I had the ample technical qualifications and experience.

Dozer Dave

2011 wrote: »

Not true in every case.
I am speaking from personal experience.

When I demonstrated the operation of my alarm system and various security systems to the AGS crime prevention officer I explained that I installed it and maintain it myself. I also made it clear that I am not PSA registered. He accepted that I had the ample technical qualifications and experience.

It would be strongly advisable to get a PSA registered over a diyer install as if the officer didn't approve of the system one would need to get a PSA to install and do the appropriate paper work anyway.
Also no PSA would take on a failed diy install so not worth going down this route. Get the job done by the trained professionals who will complete the job to the correct specs and be able to sort all the legalities that comes with the job.

2011

Dozer Dave wrote: »

It would be strongly advisable to get a PSA registered over a diyer install

As a general rule I would offer exactly the same advice.

BattleCorp

Is it legal to install an alarm yourself? I thought all alarm installers had to be licenced?

2011

BattleCorp wrote: »

Is it legal to install an alarm yourself? I thought all alarm installers had to be licenced?

Legally you must be a licensed with the PSA (Private Security Authority) to install alarm systems. However installing an alarm for yourself in your own home is treated differently.

2011

This would be a more appropriate forum for discussion about alarm systems.

Cass

Really?

For my house insurance they wanted a PSA installer, and so did An Gardaí. My Father used to install them, and i trained on them with him some years ago and if it was unnecessary i could have done it myself for the cost of parts only. I got the proper, PSA registered installer, lad to do it for me, and everyone is happy.