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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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    #4442
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The worst part about this is that people are going to be finding ways to completely undermine him from day one. I don't know why people think that way these days. It may take 18 months for him to settle down, but I think he's going to mature into a great head coach, and I'm happy it sounds like the management are prepared to make a real investment in him.

    Those (strawmen) people are irrelevant. I think the majority of Leinster support will give Leo a fair chance. At the same time it's not unreasonable to question the decision to further back a coach who had a questionable period as the forwards coach.


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    #4443
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I actually can't believe this. I am stunned.

    Well, they just didn't think you handled the 'STAR' approach to the interview all that well, nothing more really!

    ... Probably shouldn't left the red face-paint at home though.


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    #4444
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    .ak wrote: »
    Well, they just didn't think you handled the 'STAR' approach to the interview all that well, nothing more really!

    ... Probably shouldn't left the red face-paint at home though.

    Ah it makes sense now that pashun wasn't on the person specification.


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    #4445
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    It is very important that people don't freak out if the RWC period isn't a resounding success. From Cullen's point of view it really couldn't be a worse situation to be cutting your teeth as a head coach.

    They will though. They were calling for Schmidt's head in September!
    awec wrote: »
    I think that's nonsense. Nobody is undermining anything, just asking genuine and very valid questions.

    As for having to give him a proper contract, I don't think that's really true either. A 1 year deal with a view to extending depending on how he goes would be much more realistic and fair to all involved.
    They'll be all over him with comments like "I was concerned about him from the beginning and it looks like I was right..." etc.

    A 1 year deal in a world cup year would be a poisoned chalice. They'd have a harder job selling an extension than they would selling the initial 3 year deal.


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    #4446
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    They'll be all over him with comments like "I was concerned about him from the beginning and it looks like I was right..." etc.

    Who exactly are they?


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    #4447
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    To be honest, I'm eager for the new season. I think certain players will really shine for us, guys like Ruddock, SOB, Sexton, T'eo, Isa... we could have some real magic going on there. There'll be a bit of fresh air in the camp after MOC's gone, for right or wrong, and with the return of Sexton - who's very much a vocal person about professional ethos and, well, perfection - there'll be a pretty good drive going on behind the scenes.

    Is Leo the right man for the job? No, I can't say he is, based on previous experience. However, for now, he's all we have, and he's not an idiot, nor is he bullheaded, he's a smart fella and I can't think of anyone bar Jenno that personifies the branch more than he does. Things could go right, or they could go wrong. The point is, we won't know until this time next year, and at stage we could have either party saying 'I told you so', such is the way these things generally go.

    However, right now we can discuss the absolutes, the things that have happened already. For me, regardless of whether it works out or not, I can't help but feel the branch somewhere along the lines made a massive error in letting themselves fall into this position. I wonder how many other candidates actually were interviewed? Is it just a case that they HAD to let Cullen interview for it, and he was the only one to apply? They couldn't really say no at that point, could they?

    Imagine that, 'Sorry Cullen, you're didn't get it... However, we didn't get anyone else either, so you'll have to carry on being the interim coach, on whatever your previous contract salary was, until you can make our team more attractive to outsiders! Thanks pal...'


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    #4448
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    They will though. They were calling for Schmidt's head in September!

    Who is "they", really. Apart from one noted blowhard I don't think people wanted Schmidt gone in September.


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    #4449
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Who exactly are they?
    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Who is "they", really. Apart from one noted blowhard I don't think people wanted Schmidt gone in September.


    George Hook.


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    #4450
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,039 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    .ak wrote: »
    George Hook.

    I do believe I referenced George in my post!


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    #4451
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Who exactly are they?

    The exact same people who called for all of his predecessors to be replaced.
    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Who is "they", really. Apart from one noted blowhard I don't think people wanted Schmidt gone in September.

    It was in the multiple papers,certainly the Herald, it was mentioned on Newstalk, it was in the terraces as well. It was there in 2008 with Cheika, and it's there at every big club really. You know the type, it'll come back as soon as the same experts get a taste of blood when we fall to someone during the RWC.


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    #4452
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm still assuming this is another one of these rumours that I largely ignore


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    #4453
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Those (strawmen) people are irrelevant. I think the majority of Leinster support will give Leo a fair chance. At the same time it's not unreasonable to question the decision to further back a coach who had a questionable period as the forwards coach.

    You've nailed it, thomond.


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    #4454
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Everyone will claim to have given Leo a fair chance. The problem is that people will have different ideas of what constitutes a fair chance.


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    #4455
    Redgirl82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Redgirl82


    Who will be backs coach in this new set up?


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    #4456
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Redgirl82 wrote: »
    Who will be backs coach in this new set up?

    Girven Dempsey, until they find another backs coach, apparently.


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    #4457
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Today FM were reporting it as a 2 year contract this morning


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    #4458
    DelMcG
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭DelMcG


    I'd have been much happier about this if it were a one year rolling contract, a la Martin O'Neill. If he does well in year one, you renew. If he doesn't, you don't and no-one loses any face as a result.


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    #4459
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    .ak wrote: »
    Girven Dempsey, until they find another backs coach, apparently.

    Would it not make more sense to give Girve a shot at the head coaching role, he's been coaching the A's for a few years now and has (2?) B&I cups to his name.


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    #4460
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,553 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    DelMcG wrote: »
    I'd have been much happier about this if it were a one year rolling contract, a la Martin O'Neill. If he does well in year one, you renew. If he doesn't, you don't and no-one loses any face as a result.

    A rolling contract means that he has a contract for 365 days in the future at all times.

    So today he'd be in contract to 27/07/2016, tomorrow he'd be in contract until the 28/07/2016 and on the 31st September he'd be in contract until 31/09/16.

    The upside is a club will only ever have to pay off one year if they want rid. The downside obviously is the contract never expires, so if he leaves he is definitely getting a payoff.

    Sackings in rugby are not that common though, with most managers just not getting renewals rather than having their contract paid off so a rolling contract would not make much sense. In football managers are let go all the time which is why rolling contracts are more popular, though generally most managers with a strong bargaining position will not accept them.


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    #4461
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Burgo wrote: »
    Would it not make more sense to give Girve a shot at the head coaching role, he's been coaching the A's for a few years now and has (2?) B&I cups to his name.

    Did Girve look for the job?

    Anyway, I wish Leo the best of luck for however long he's got the job for. Great to see another Irish man get a prominent coaching job.


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    #4462
    Crimsonforce
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    Who knows maybe he is the next Gregor townsend, but I wait and see..
    he spent a lot of time studying in nz , has Cullen spent anytime abroad (apart from his stint with Leicester tigers)


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    #4463
    The_Captain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    Gregor Townsend spent a good 3 or 4 years as an assistant coach before getting the head coach job though.

    Cullen shouldn't be getting a two year contract at this point in time, it's as simple as that.
    Great player, great captain, but no experience in coaching at any level


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    #4464
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,154 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    If true, its a big gamble by Leo as well. If this goes wrong, he could set his career back years.


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    #4465
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Sangre wrote: »
    If true, its a big gamble by Leo as well. If this goes wrong, he could set his career back years.

    Absolutely, fair play to Leo for taking it on knowing he is possibly on a hiding to nothing.


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    #4466
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    jm08 wrote: »
    Absolutely, fair play to Leo for taking it on knowing he is possibly on a hiding to nothing.

    It could indeed be a poisoned chalice.

    Well I wish him well if all this is true.


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    #4467
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    So where does Kurt McQuilkin fit into this? My understanding is he is/was an interim appointment like Cullen. Given his previous success at Leinster all effort should be made to make him permanent IMO.


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    #4468
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    total former wrote: »
    Everyone will claim to have given Leo a fair chance. The problem is that people will have different ideas of what constitutes a fair chance.

    That's actually a tough one. We were always going to have to revise our expectations down for the coming season to a degree. It's going to be hard to tell purely from this season as a result just how much we can expect from Leo in 16/17.

    In all fairness though I'd find it hard to blame Leo in this instance. I'd look more at the board if this doesn't work out. They took a punt on MOC and it didn't work out, these things happen. But he had a good CV so it wasn't a shot in the dark. It was very much a rational and logical decision. This is the very opposite, and so is far riskier than any of the last few appointments. While it couldn't be said that we saw the issues with MOC coming it can very much be said of Leo.

    I hope the guy steps up though obviously. He was an absolute legend as a player and led us to so much success. Maybe the technical bits of forwards coaching was something he needs/needed time to get right, but maybe the more general man management and squad management will suit him down to the ground from day 1. If he gets a quality backs coach in it is very possible he could do the job very well. He was always a leader so there's every chance he could fit the role well from that perspective.


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    #4469
    mailforkev
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    Handwarmer in the pack this year, handy when freezing your tits off at the winter matches. Hopefully whilst watching Leo's glorious Leinster renaissance...

    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13708.php#.VbYfwkW5M-A


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    #4470
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Aren't those the one-use handwarmers?


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    #4471
    dub_skav
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    .ak wrote: »
    Aren't those the one-use handwarmers?

    Are you expecting it to be cold more than once?


This discussion has been closed.
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