Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Deise Gael

Went to see the Lismore game today.

Firstly, congrats to them, they were by far the better team all the way through.

Their excellent half back line was the springboard for their success.

Paudie Prendergast, Ray Barry and Maurice Shanahan were the stand out players for Lismore.

Paudie Prendergast was outstanding and seems to have regained his confidence, he was excellent. His time back with his club seems to have done wonders for him.

Ray Barry was a joy to watch, he has a great style about him and his touch and striking was a pleasure to watch. He was a colossus for Lismore in the second half, time after time sweeping up ball and clearing it out of defence.

Maurice Shanahan I have to say was brilliant in spite of being doubled teamed for the whole game. Some of the ball he caught under pressure was incredible.

Great performances also by the veteran Eoin Bennett and young Prendergast at centre forward. and Hennessy, Reaney and another Prendergast in the fullback line.

Great to see Dan staying out on the pitch for ages after signing autographs and standing in for photos.

robopaddy2

cul beag wrote: »

Giveitfong wrote: »

Lismore 2-14 Kilmoyley 0-13

Lismore captured the Munster intermediate club hurling championship when defeating Kilmoyley with reasonable comfort at Mallow today. The game, watched by an attendance of just over 1,000, was played in dry but bitterly cold conditions on a good pitch for the time of year.

Kilmoyley, the Kerry senior champions, were very much up for the game and at times showed superior commitment, especially in the first half. They were well drilled, had a good first touch and had some good hurlers, especially in the middle third of the field. However, their forwards were unable to make any impression on the Lismore defence with the outstanding exception of their centre forward, Daniel Collins, who, remarkably, got all his side s scores (seven frees and six points from play). How they could have done with their former attacking star, Shane Brick, who only retired recently.

A lot of credit must go to the Lismore defence for the way they subdued the opposition attack. I was quite impressed with their full back line of Sean Reaney, David Prendergast and Pat Hennessy, who were alert, quick and sharp.

The first half was evenly contested. Kilmoyley created numerous openings which they spoiled with some bad shooting. Lismore created several goal chances but failed to put any of them away, due to a combination of poor finishing and some tenacious defending by Kilmoyley. Lismore were a bit arrogant, I thought, looking for goals when easy points were there for the taking. The score at half time was seven points each.

Lismore must have got a tongue-lashing from manager Dave Barry at half time, as they were a different team in the second half. A quick point was followed by the opening goal, corner forward Peter O Keeffe latching onto a ball which broke behind the Kilmoyley defence to finish efficiently to the net. Kilmoyley tried their best to get back into the game, but the writing was on the wall for them when Lismore goaled again in the tenth minute, Maurice Shanahan running onto Jack Prendergast s pass to tip the ball over the Kilmoyley goalkeeper s head into the net.

Lismore were playing with more confidence now, with Kilmoyley unable to even get a sniff of the goal they desperately needed. The Cathedral Town men were happy to exchange points with their opponents, to close out the game 2-14 to 0-13 ahead.

I thought that Paudie Prendergast at wing back was Lismore s best player, and oozed class from start to finish. Centre back Ray Barry had his problems with his opposite number Collins, but still hit a lot of good ball over the hour. Maurice Shanahan roared into the game after the change of ends after a quiet first half, and ended up with 1-9, 1-2 from play. Jack Prendergast showed some flashes of this undoubted ability, and John Prendergast put in a good shift in the second half.

Lismore: Seanie Barry; Sean Reaney; David Prendergast; Pat Hennessy; Paudie Prendergast; Ray Barry (0-1); Eoin Bennett; Stevie Barry; John Prendergast; Brendan Landers (0-1); Jack Prendergast (0-1); Maurice Shanahan (1-9, six frees and one 65); Jordan Shanahan; Dan Shanahan (0-1); Peter O Keeffe (1-0). Brian Bennett and Ronan Landers came on for Jordan Shanahan and Stevie Barry. There were three further substitutions in injury time.

Goals win games and you can't fault a team for going for the juggler. Pity you didn't see that Paudie Prendergast has gone in centre back half way through the second half. Ray Barry and Paudie Prendergast gave an exhibition of hurling today and must be commended on what was a huge success for Lismore

Is Pender on the co senior panel? Those 2 lads easily good enough for the county senior panel and even push for a place on the team, definitely a lot better than a lot of what is on the current panel

Cake Man

Seems like Paudie Prendergsat and Ray Barry could/should be back on the Waterford panel next year, if they want to make themselves available of course. Would there be a place for either in the starting 15? They'd surely have something to offer but hard to know who they could dislodge.

PTH2009

Cake Man wrote: »

Seems like Paudie Prendergsat and Ray Barry could/should be back on the Waterford panel next year, if they want to make themselves available of course. Would there be a place for either in the starting 15? They'd surely have something to offer but hard to know who they could dislodge.

surly Derek and the new selector was at the game yesterday as Dan was playing

we have unreal depth in senior hurlers atm thankfully and there will be guys who will miss out (Not that there bad hurlers but thats there no room for them in the squad)

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

Seems like Paudie Prendergsat and Ray Barry could/should be back on the Waterford panel next year, if they want to make themselves available of course. Would there be a place for either in the starting 15? They'd surely have something to offer but hard to know who they could dislodge.

There are plenty of lads who can be dislodged, very few players on that Waterford tam in my eyes should be indispensable. Its wrong to think that young lads like Barry and Prendergast fell out of favour with management before they even had a chance to prove themselves, and there's plenty more alike. Plenty of talent outside of the core group of 15-20 who were used in last years league and championship. These lads need to be involved to keep the pressure on the lads that are in favour. Otherwise were in danger of standing still.

cul beag

robopaddy2 wrote: »

There are plenty of lads who can be dislodged, very few players on that Waterford tam in my eyes should be indispensable. Its wrong to think that young lads like Barry and Prendergast fell out of favour with management before they even had a chance to prove themselves, and there's plenty more alike. Plenty of talent outside of the core group of 15-20 who were used in last years league and championship. These lads need to be involved to keep the pressure on the lads that are in favour. Otherwise were in danger of standing still.

I agree fully but without wanting to be accused of being on an anti Mcgrath rant,can you really see him bringing these 2 lads back in? Will it look like he has had to admit defeat by doing so? These are genuine questions. Personally I can't see him doing so as he might have to dislodge some of his more,lets just say,favourite players. It is common knowledge he has a personal disliking for Barry in particular and with Prendergast dropping himself from the panel earlier this year I can't see Mcgrath going back to him cap in hand to come back to the squad. The idea that Barry is allegedly supposed to have a bad attitude is a cop out. I have seen Lismore play around 3-4 times this year and he has been sensational at wing back and centre back. The conversation in Mallow during and again after the game on Saturday was for 90% of it all about Mcgrath having to swallow his pride and bring these two lads back. Speaking to some Lismore people they did say that big Dan has tried everything to get these back on to the panel but is continually outnumbered by his fellow selectors. What is driving the people from this club bananas is the fact that,and as you said yourself these fellas not having the opportunity to prove themselves,is they know there has been a blind eye turned to alot more worse stuff that has gone on this year and has gone unpunished.
It should be interesting to see what will happen when the new selector comes on board as Mcgrath now is in a quandary. Seeing as the players wanted O Connor out as he was seen as a complete fraud,does he now bring in another nodding dog and risk the wrath of the players or does he actually bring in someone whose opinion might differ from his own? Some of the players had let it be known they wanted the Kildare man out as he brought nothing to the table,in fact he was seen through completely as being a bluffer and they had had enough. Big Dan's knowledge and honesty was seen by them to be far more important than someone that was their for just personal gains. So to go back to your point about bringing these two,and other players besides back into the fold isn't as plain sailing as we think. But don't tell me for a second there are 45 players on a training regime at the moment better than what I,and others have seen produced by these throughout the year. Go back to last year's senior championship and Thomas Ryan from Tallow was probably in the best form of his life and got one full start in the league in the dead rubber game in Walsh Park and maybe 1-2 token substitute appearances afterwards. He was sensational all that year for his club but never got the same chances as other names that have been well documented on here already. Wouldn't he have been an option to bring on at different stages of championship games,with his pace and accuracy and with games having opened up,space would have become available for him to thrive in. Interesting times ahead lets see what happens.

thesultan

Would paudie pender style suit Waterford? No doubting his hurling but seems a get it and belt player. It works for lismore as they have a big team but that ball will rarely work for Waterford.

PTH2009

http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/47/27/FinalVersion-GAAMasterFixtureScheduleBooklet2017-15112016_Neutral.pdf

master fixture list for 2017 is out

AI Club Intermediate Semi Final- Lismore vs Connacht Champions- 28/29 Jan 17
final is Sat 18th Feb in Croke Park

Munster council have not released the fixture list yet for 2017

NFL and NHL 2017 fixtures
http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/47/39/AllianzLeagueFixtures2017(1)_Neutral.pdf

robopaddy2

cul beag wrote: »

I agree fully but without wanting to be accused of being on an anti Mcgrath rant,can you really see him bringing these 2 lads back in? Will it look like he has had to admit defeat by doing so? These are genuine questions. Personally I can't see him doing so as he might have to dislodge some of his more,lets just say,favourite players. It is common knowledge he has a personal disliking for Barry in particular and with Prendergast dropping himself from the panel earlier this year I can't see Mcgrath going back to him cap in hand to come back to the squad. The idea that Barry is allegedly supposed to have a bad attitude is a cop out. I have seen Lismore play around 3-4 times this year and he has been sensational at wing back and centre back. The conversation in Mallow during and again after the game on Saturday was for 90% of it all about Mcgrath having to swallow his pride and bring these two lads back. Speaking to some Lismore people they did say that big Dan has tried everything to get these back on to the panel but is continually outnumbered by his fellow selectors. What is driving the people from this club bananas is the fact that,and as you said yourself these fellas not having the opportunity to prove themselves,is they know there has been a blind eye turned to alot more worse stuff that has gone on this year and has gone unpunished.
It should be interesting to see what will happen when the new selector comes on board as Mcgrath now is in a quandary. Seeing as the players wanted O Connor out as he was seen as a complete fraud,does he now bring in another nodding dog and risk the wrath of the players or does he actually bring in someone whose opinion might differ from his own? Some of the players had let it be known they wanted the Kildare man out as he brought nothing to the table,in fact he was seen through completely as being a bluffer and they had had enough. Big Dan's knowledge and honesty was seen by them to be far more important than someone that was their for just personal gains. So to go back to your point about bringing these two,and other players besides back into the fold isn't as plain sailing as we think. But don't tell me for a second there are 45 players on a training regime at the moment better than what I,and others have seen produced by these throughout the year. Go back to last year's senior championship and Thomas Ryan from Tallow was probably in the best form of his life and got one full start in the league in the dead rubber game in Walsh Park and maybe 1-2 token substitute appearances afterwards. He was sensational all that year for his club but never got the same chances as other names that have been well documented on here already. Wouldn't he have been an option to bring on at different stages of championship games,with his pace and accuracy and with games having opened up,space would have become available for him to thrive in. Interesting times ahead lets see what happens.

Before I say anything, I don't know McGrath from adam, I've no affiliation with him, but he seems to like an honest and fair minded man to me. He doesn't strike me as a guy who would be too proud to go back 'cap in hand' asking players back onto the panel. In the case of these too lads from what I heard Barry wasn't in the right mindset for senior intercounty hurling a couple years ago and Paudie P left as he was sick of being on the periphery, which is understandable. The issue here is McGraths ideology on how he runs the team and the panel isn't everyones cup of tea, not least players who don't see any game time. So its one thing to have these lads on the panel, but to keep them happy when they are not making the team is the impossible task. Whether he gives preference to fellahs he had at his own school is open to debate. Personally out of his ex-students the only one I would not have had on the team first day was Barry Coughlan, but we weren't exactly overpowered with fullbacks when McGrath came on board first so I can see how he might have gone with someone he knew well and trusted. Jake Dillon comes in for some criticism but he did (eventually) drop him for a couple games last year but to be fair he did play well coming off the bench and got a great goal against KK in the replay semi final so for me he justifies being in the mix. Its extremely hard to keep every player happy for me Id like to see the likes of Barry, and Prendergast see game time in the league this year, I really don't agree with what went on this year just using the same 20/21 players for the league, how do you expect the likes of Barry, Prendergast and others to step up to the mark if you don't give them a chance.

Cake Man

If Lismore win their AI intermediate semi final at the end of January, they'll have an AI final to prepare for in mid March. Would it be even possible for the likes of PP and RB to be involved in our league if they get tied up with that? We'll have played 4 out of our 5 league games by Paddy's day (KK, Tipp, Dublin and Cork).
Just saying that it would be unfair for people to criticise DMcG for not giving them a chance when the reality is they would be tied up with the club.

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

If Lismore win their AI intermediate semi final at the end of January, they'll have an AI final to prepare for in mid March. Would it be even possible for the likes of PP and RB to be involved in our league if they get tied up with that? We'll have played 4 out of our 5 league games by Paddy's day (KK, Tipp, Dublin and Cork).
Just saying that it would be unfair for people to criticise DMcG for not giving them a chance when the reality is they would be tied up with the club.

Fair enough point, but the key issue here is that Barry and Prendergast are just examples about what is wrong about the current system. By having a 'core-group' of 19/20 players, there are other players who many will argue are as good as the lads in that circle but just out of favour with the manager. If there is depth of talent (as there is in Waterford at the moment) it should be utilised, not just pick a select few to suit the system. It keeps competition for places fresh and Waterford hurling avoids losing out on some of the talented young hurlers we have worked so hard to produce at underage level. As a result you have lads on the panel who are just happy to be there because in reality they are not up to it, the lads that are up to it just get cheesed off with being out of favour and move on.

cul beag

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Fair enough point, but the key issue here is that Barry and Prendergast are just examples about what is wrong about the current system. By having a 'core-group' of 19/20 players, there are other players who many will argue are as good as the lads in that circle but just out of favour with the manager. If there is depth of talent (as there is in Waterford at the moment) it should be utilised, not just pick a select few to suit the system. It keeps competition for places fresh and Waterford hurling avoids losing out on some of the talented young hurlers we have worked so hard to produce at underage level. As a result you have lads on the panel who are just happy to be there because in reality they are not up to it, the lads that are up to it just get cheesed off with being out of favour and move on.

Spot on. But unfortunately I don't see it changing.

cul beag

Cake Man wrote: »

If Lismore win their AI intermediate semi final at the end of January, they'll have an AI final to prepare for in mid March. Would it be even possible for the likes of PP and RB to be involved in our league if they get tied up with that? We'll have played 4 out of our 5 league games by Paddy's day (KK, Tipp, Dublin and Cork).
Just saying that it would be unfair for people to criticise DMcG for not giving them a chance when the reality is they would be tied up with the club.

And the same can be said for Maurice if you are to use that point but I have a feeling Maurice will be training with the panel before then!

The blue blaa

If the rumours doing the rounds are right then Philip Murphy from Roanmore is the new Waterford selector. Replacing Fintan O Connor.

deisedude

Kilnoyley's centreforward scored 5 or 6 points from play and some of you want the Lismore centre back starting for Waterford. Jesus wept

cul beag

deisedude wrote: »

Kilnoyley's centreforward scored 5 or 6 points from play and some of you want the Lismore centre back starting for Waterford. Jesus wept

You were at the game were you? Talk me through what you saw? Jesus wept is right! Instead of reading the score and scorers let me know what you saw yourself? What a stupid post

cul beag

The blue blaa wrote: »

If the rumours doing the rounds are right then Philip Murphy from Roanmore is the new Waterford selector. Replacing Fintan O Connor.

What would his credentials look like?

mountgomery burns

Intermediate final is in February as far as I know, they wouldn't miss more than two league games.

Deiseen

I'm sure McGrath would rather use players, who he knows are not the best on the panel, and lose in Croke Park/Thurles in front of 50,000 people just because they are his favorites :silly:
Any decent manager worth his salt will know that you can't pick lads on whimsical ideas like that. You can criticise his selection, everyone is entitled to that. But to assume he selects lads out of favoritism is ridiculous. These lads have won colleges, underage and 3rd level all Ireland's, that is the reason they are on the team. Not because he has a soft spot for them.
If he was choosing teams based on that then we would be down in Divison 2 for the last two years and wud be playing in the Christy Ring Cup.

thesultan

The two boys are good enough for the panel but they will find it hard to dislodge any of de burca, Austin, dara fives, Mahoney, Moran, gleeson axis that has played in the half back line.

Deise Gael

Deiseen wrote: »

. These lads have won colleges, underage and 3rd level all Ireland's, that is the reason they are on the team. Not because he has a soft spot for them.

Maurice Shanahan had an awesome year won an All Star in 2015. He was faultless also from frees. It didn't cut much ice though with McGrath when it came to he being taken off the frees and being dropped in 2016. I know who 99% of people in Waterford would have on the team first between Jake and Maurice.

DiscoStew

Deise Gael wrote: »

Maurice Shanahan had an awesome year won an All Star in 2015. He was faultless also from frees. It didn't cut much ice though with McGrath when it came to he being taken off the frees and being dropped in 2016. I know who 99% of people in Waterford would have on the team first between Jake and Maurice.

Maurice struggled to hit the form of 2015 this year. Given the depth of talent there at the moment I think it was a fair call to try something else. Jake played well when he came in for him, even if he does have his limitations.

mountgomery burns

Deise Gael wrote: »

Maurice Shanahan had an awesome year won an All Star in 2015. He was faultless also from frees. It didn't cut much ice though with McGrath when it came to he being taken off the frees and being dropped in 2016. I know who 99% of people in Waterford would have on the team first between Jake and Maurice.

Pretty disingenuous to be fair. Dillon got 10 minutes between the Munster semi final and final whereas Maurice started. It was clear Maurice was not fit this year and people were calling for changes after the Munster final. Dillon got two points the first day against Kilkenny and a goal the second day. He's an easy target here but think that was justified.

culbaire

deisedude wrote: »

Kilnoyley's centreforward scored 5 or 6 points from play and some of you want the Lismore centre back starting for Waterford. Jesus wept

Were you at the match?

The blue blaa

cul beag wrote: »

What would his credentials look like?

He managed Roanmore and although he won nothing as a coach he did silence a lot of people by keeping Roanmore up and getting some good results. He has a great team spirit instilled in that Roanmore team. One could argue Roanmore always had that. I couldnt tell you anything else as i do not know the lad.

Deise Gael

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Pretty disingenuous to be fair. Dillon got 10 minutes between the Munster semi final and final whereas Maurice started. It was clear Maurice was not fit this year and people were calling for changes after the Munster final. Dillon got two points the first day against Kilkenny and a goal the second day. He's an easy target here but think that was justified.

My reply was to the poster who was pointing to the past college successes of certain lads on the team as a case for their being automatic starters. Does not more recent good form count for something with other lads on the panel?

At no stage during the championship do I recall Maurice being unfit. That was the narrative fed to the media.

I was just asking the question that for a guy who was faultless on the frees in 2015 did he not deserve some faith to be shown in him for 2016? He had surely earned that much. It's a moot point in a year when frees turned out to be so crucial.

As for people calling for changes after the Munster final - if that's the reason given for Maurice being dropped he should surely have had many more with him.

Deiseen

Deise Gael wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

. These lads have won colleges, underage and 3rd level all Ireland's, that is the reason they are on the team. Not because he has a soft spot for them.

Maurice Shanahan had an awesome year won an All Star in 2015. He was faultless also from frees. It didn't cut much ice though with McGrath when it came to he being taken off the frees and being dropped in 2016. I know who 99% of people in Waterford would have on the team first between Jake and Maurice.

I'm not saying that gets them automatic selection regardless of form. I'm pointing out that the lads are quality players, which is proven by their achievements so he is not just picking them for the sake of it. I'm sure he knows better than any of us why Maurice didn't start any particular game. I'd like to see him start every game and I'm sure McGrath would too but if he doesn't start him then I'm sure there's a reason behind it other than "favoritism" for other players.
Also, Maurice has been very vocal about the amazing support Mcgrath showed him during his tough time. If favoritism came into it then, based on what Maurice said, he'd be starting every game!

Deise Gael

Deiseen wrote: »

If favoritism came into it then, based on what Maurice said, he'd be starting every game!

If you believe that you either believe in the tooth fairy or you are very far removed from what was going on in the set up last year.

Deiseen

Deise Gael wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

If favoritism came into it then, based on what Maurice said, he'd be starting every game!

If you believe that you either believe in the tooth fairy or you are very far removed from what was going on in the set up last year.

I'm not to believe the words that come out of Maurice's own mouth?

mountgomery burns

Deise Gael wrote: »

My reply was to the poster who was pointing to the past college successes of certain lads on the team as a case for their being automatic starters. Does not more recent good form count for something with other lads on the panel?

At no stage during the championship do I recall Maurice being unfit. That was the narrative fed to the media.

I was just asking the question that for a guy who was faultless on the frees in 2015 did he not deserve some faith to be shown in him for 2016? He had surely earned that much. It's a moot point in a year when frees turned out to be so crucial.

As for people calling for changes after the Munster final - if that's the reason given for Maurice being dropped he should surely have had many more with him.

We must have been watching different Maurice Shanahans so in the Munster Final and the Wexford game. I would have said he looked unfit, either way he was way below par.

There's a case for saying Paudie Mahony is the best free taker in the Country but he's certainly the best in Waterford. I would have thought it would be a relief to not have to take the free Manony had to take at the death against Kilkenny?