Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

hurler on de ditch

tomwaterford wrote: »

I think it's more a lament on the state of hurling at the min.....rather than a top at kk



They can only beat what's in front of them.....what would've happened if this kk team came up against kk of 07-11

probably would have played out of their skin like they did on sunday ,and if it was good enough on the day they might have won ,what do you think would have happened our team that played yesterday if they played the team that defeated tipp to get us into an All Ireland final in 2008,or the team from 02-08

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

probably would have played out of their skin like they did on sunday ,and if it was good enough on the day they might have won ,what do you think would have happened our team that played yesterday if they played the team that defeated tipp to get us into an All Ireland final in 2008,or the team from 02-08

Fancy them (modern team) to beat them (02-08team) by grinding out a result tbh.....


Perhaps this is a discussion for the winter months....


Any word on any changes for waterford for Sunday

Rosita

mountgomery burns wrote: »

1) I really doubt players went out last Sunday bothered about peoples opinion of them. All they care about is the next match and more importantly winning an all ireland.

2) You seriously over value peoples opinions if you think the Clare lads would trade there all ireland medals to be revered as much as our team in the noughties, for example.

1) This is just a statement of the obvious isn't it and has nothing to do with anything I actually said. Telling us that players wanted to win the match last Sunday is hardly challenging everything we ever believed.

2) I never mentioned Clare trading All Ireland medals for anything, nor did I suggest at any point that the Waterford team of the noughties was "revered" by anyone.

hurler on de ditch

http://www.the42.ie/tommy-dunne-hurling-analysis-kilkenny-waterford-2915632-Aug2016/

barneystinson

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

what do you think would have happened our team that played yesterday if they played the team that defeated tipp to get us into an All Ireland final in 2008,or the team from 02-08

What would win in a fight, a tiger or a gorilla??

Helpneeded86

The 02-08 team from Waterford is a team I actually rated to a degree. They were unlucky to be in an era that saw a great KK team dominate.

This team does not come close. This is coming from someone who rarely likes to pay a compliment to Waterford.

Dick phelan

My comment was not meant to be a swipe at KK more a comment on the failures of other teams to beat them, KK a few years ago were virtually unbeatable, they had easily 6-7 of the greatest players to ever play the game all in or near their prime, KK today is still an amazing team but they are no comparison to the one that had Shefflin, Walsh, Brennan, Delaney ect, My point was other teams are failing if they are unable to stop the current KK team from winning 3 in a row because on paper there not unbeatable like they once were.

mickmackey1

They may not be as good as the old team but they could still be good enough to get the job done. The Cork 76-78 team is not remembered as being one of the best ever but they still bagged the 3-in-a-row.

carter10

Interesting

robopaddy2

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

The 02-08 team from Waterford is a team I actually rated to a degree. They were unlucky to be in an era that saw a great KK team dominate.

This team does not come close. This is coming from someone who rarely likes to pay a compliment to Waterford.

Cork were dominant in 04 & 05 don't forget. We beat them in 04 Munster final so we were fairly close to them all the same. Our ultimate failings were a weak full back line and lack of strength and depth during that period imo.

hurler on de ditch

Dick phelan wrote: »

My comment was not meant to be a swipe at KK more a comment on the failures of other teams to beat them, KK a few years ago were virtually unbeatable, they had easily 6-7 of the greatest players to ever play the game all in or near their prime, KK today is still an amazing team but they are no comparison to the one that had Shefflin, Walsh, Brennan, Delaney ect, My point was other teams are failing if they are unable to stop the current KK team from winning 3 in a row because on paper there not unbeatable like they once were.

you know that famous saying ,they are a great team on paper ,pity the game is played on grass

carq

Jaysus this thread is circling the drain fast!
Between a page on a Richie Hogan pickup in the 2ND MINUTE, and the last page on clare vs Kilkenny vs waterfod legacy.

Anyway back to the matter at hand.
Interesting comment in the independent from mcgrath where he basically admitted his failings from 63rd minute onwards.
Saw that players were getting tired but obviously didn’t trust the lads on the bench to come on and perform to the same level.
Devine and bennett should have been brought on at least to give more energy upfront.

danganabu

carter10 wrote: »

Interesting

You really need to get out more!

danganabu

carq wrote: »

Jaysus this thread is circling the drain fast!
Between a page on a Richie Hogan pickup in the 2ND MINUTE, and the last page on clare vs Kilkenny vs waterfod legacy.

Anyway back to the matter at hand.
Interesting comment in the independent from mcgrath where he basically admitted his failings from 63rd minute onwards.
Saw that players were getting tired but obviously didn’t trust the lads on the bench to come on and perform to the same level.
Devine and bennett should have been brought on at least to give more energy upfront.

Didn't see the article but you have to admire his honesty and openness, even as a Tipp man who absolutely detested the way Waterford were lining up in matches you have to have respect for him, I even felt bad for him after watching his post match interview in the Munster Final.

All that said, it is only worthwhile if he learns from his mistakes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making mistakes in fact it's inevitable and is a positive as long as you learn from them and obviously don't repeat them!

Alf Tupper

danganabu wrote: »

You really need to get out more!

Says the Tipp guy camped in a Waterford GAA Discussion Board:)

danganabu

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Says the Tipp guy camped in a Waterford GAA Discussion Board:)

I post in all GAA threads, I didn't realise this was exclusively a Waterford posters only thread, apologies won't happen again.

Alf Tupper

danganabu wrote: »

I post in all GAA threads.

Well then you most definitely should get out more:)

carq

danganabu wrote: »

Didn't see the article but you have to admire his honesty and openness, even as a Tipp man who absolutely detested the way Waterford were lining up in matches you have to have respect for him, I even felt bad for him after watching his post match interview in the Munster Final.

All that said, it is only worthwhile if he learns from his mistakes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making mistakes in fact it's inevitable and is a positive as long as you learn from them and obviously don't repeat them!

McGrath comments here

We stepped up, but we came back, I suppose," he said of their formation as they went conventional for long spels of the game until near the end.

"That's what we were trying to do all day and I think there was a little bit of fatigue crept in there with 63 or 64 minutes gone, I thought.
"The fatigue was creeping in with key players. So you're balancing key players being fatigued against that key part of the game where you need those fellas.

"And I think that was the kind of conundrum for us on the line. We had a few really key players that were firing and were doing well. But they were tiring. And I think that was the reason we didn't make the sub between the 66th and 75th minute," he said.
"I think there came a stage where we were clinging to it that you could probably label the fact that we retreated too early, if you like. But very hard to control the match day, especially when you're on the cusp of 60 years of hurt being evaporated.

McGrath described the Waterford performance as "heroic" and "epic."

danganabu

carq wrote: »

McGrath comments here

We stepped up, but we came back, I suppose," he said of their formation as they went conventional for long spels of the game until near the end.

"That's what we were trying to do all day and I think there was a little bit of fatigue crept in there with 63 or 64 minutes gone, I thought.
"The fatigue was creeping in with key players. So you're balancing key players being fatigued against that key part of the game where you need those fellas.

"And I think that was the kind of conundrum for us on the line. We had a few really key players that were firing and were doing well. But they were tiring. And I think that was the reason we didn't make the sub between the 66th and 75th minute," he said.
"I think there came a stage where we were clinging to it that you could probably label the fact that we retreated too early, if you like. But very hard to control the match day, especially when you're on the cusp of 60 years of hurt being evaporated.

McGrath described the Waterford performance as "heroic" and "epic."

Couldn't agrue with any of that and he has called it pretty spot on, I thought the tiredness had set in a lot earlier that that period though, understandably. Waterford scored 21 points in the first 53 mins and only 3 in the last 22.If you are playing with the ferocity and hunger that they did, regardless of their youthfulness, then you must absolutely use all your subs.

Giveitfong

Well done to Waterford for their superb effort against Kilkenny last Sunday – a display which marks the emergence of this mainly young team as a major hurling force. In the end they were undone by a combination of their own inexperience and Kilkenny’s remarkable resilience.

After the game a number of Waterford supporters expressed their amazement at the Waterford performance, as if they thought it was not in them. We should note that eleven of the starting team last Sunday have All-Ireland medals either at minor or colleges level (or both) with substitute Patrick Curran bringing the total to 12. These are all superb hurlers with enormous potential. This was, essentially, the first time that Derek McGrath allowed the players to show what they are capable of, and boy did they grab the opportunity.

For the most part, Waterford out-Kilkennyed Kilkenny last Sunday by bringing the half forwards out to stifle the Cats in the midfield area, while at all times keeping at least two players in the full forward line to contest the flow of ball coming from midfield. By circulating the forwards, this meant that the task of falling back to midfield to work like dogs was shared among the six, thus reducing the demand on individual players. Also, instead of the hopeless long balls being played into a one (or no) man full forward line in previous games, the supply of ball coming in was generally quite good.

However, while Waterford outfought and outhurled Kilkenny for most of the game, in the end it was not enough against Kilkenny’s indomitable will to survive, their experience and their fieldcraft. When they needed a goal they were able to deliberately engineer it, and when they needed an equalising point they were able to do likewise. I am reminded of how Kilkenny worked the ball the length of the field to score the equalising point with the last puck of the game in the 1993 Leinster final against Wexford. They initially got possession when the fullback blocked down an over-the-shoulder attempt at a point by the Wexford full forward. Wexford were a point up at the time, and if the full forward had hit the ball into the Cusack Stand instead of going for a score, they would have won the game. It’s all about doing the right thing at the right time in highly-pressurised situations. Perhaps ominously for Waterford, Kilkenny romped home in the replay on that occasion.

Much has been made of Waterford’s attempt to put up the shutters in the closing stages last Sunday, an understandable move by an inexperienced team in the situation they were in. However, what was worse was the way several Waterford players blazed the ball out of defence to unmarked Kilkenny defenders in this period, thereby simply increasing the pressure on themselves. In most of these cases, the players in question had options to pass the ball to unmarked team mates. You don’t find Kilkenny, or Tipperary or Clare, giving away free ball like this.

Waterford also gave away far too many easy scores to Kilkenny through unnecessary fouls and other unforced errors. Waterford, for the most part, had to work harder for their scores and one expects that this will be even more the case next Saturday. Also, while much attention has been given to Stephen O’Keeffe turning his back on Walter Walsh’s shot for the Kilkenny goal (unforgiveable, in my view), I am surprised that no one appears to have questioned O’Keeffe’s decision to come off his line which made it easier for Walsh to find the net (although it required some skill). With Conor Gleeson converging on Walsh, if O’Keeffe had stayed on his line Walsh would have had to resort to a blaster from a narrow angle which O’Keeffe probably would have saved.

Shane Bennett’s place on the team also has to be questioned. While his pace and strong running have a certain nuisance value, his scoring contribution (both directly and in the form of assists) in recent games has been negligible. His penchant for running at defenders is particularly unlikely to yield much against Kilkenny, while his inability to look up and lay off the ball to better placed team mates is a major deficiency at this level. Early in the game, he ran through the centre of the Kilkenny defence but instead of laying off to the unmarked Jake Dillon who was well placed for a strike at goal, he kept running until he was swallowed up by the Kilkenny full backs. Later in the half, when put in possession on the end line by Dillon, he failed to pass to the unmarked Kevin Moran at the edge of the square and instead attempted to drop kick a goal which again was swallowed up by the defence.

One might also mention to Jamie Barron (who otherwise had a magnificent game) that, while his ability to run at Kilkenny from midfield was a major weapon in Waterford’s armament, doing this from inside his own 45 metre line is ill-advised. This is how Kilkenny got the initial possession from which they scored their goal. And, brilliant and all as he was, Austin Gleeson has to learn that even he is not able (at least not yet) to take on the entire Kilkenny team on his own.

There were also some bad calls by Derek McGrath. He took a punt on starting Colin Dunford who has figured very little this year (presumably because he has not been playing well enough). Dunford clearly was a bag of nerves and his failure to control two straightforward passes led to two Kilkenny points whereas these might have produced Waterford scores if handled effectively. One wonders what Brian O’Halloran has to do to get a starting place as he clearly has been ahead of Dunford in the performance stakes all year.

And, as Blueflame has already argued here, Derek McGrath should have thrown on fresh legs among the forwards in the closing stages (especially Tom Devine and Stephen Bennett). At that stage the forwards, who had put in an enormous shift, were tiring rapidly, as reflected in several missed scoring chances and poor decision-making. Fresh legs up front at that stage would have pegged Kilkenny back and perhaps yielded the extra score or two which were required to get over the line.

As for the replay, the general pattern over the years has been that where the favourites come back to snatch a draw in the first game, they usually win the replay, frequently quite comfortably. There has been some talk about Waterford, as the younger team, being more likely to have the legs and the energy to recover more quickly. However, winning replays is mainly about psychology, and there is no doubt that failing to win out last Sunday was a big psychological blow to Waterford while their late recovery was a big boost for Kilkenny.

Another thing we have learned over the years is that replays rarely take the same pattern as drawn games. Therefore it is not just a case of going out and doing it all over again. A key feature of Kilkenny’s victories in the All-Ireland final replays in 2012 and 2014 was the way they brought in new players and changed their setups whereas their opponents (Galway and Tipperary) made no changes. Kilkenny possibly have fewer backup options for personnel changes this time, but who ever heard of Walter Walsh before the 2012 replay?

Waterford therefore have to be prepared for opposition changes for Saturday and they should also be brave and make some, perhaps unexpected, changes themselves. Unfortunately, Derek McGrath is not known for making such changes (although going 15 on 15 was a refreshing change last Sunday). The most obvious “surprises” would be to throw Patrick Curran, Tom Devine and Stephen Bennett on from the start as a completely new full forward line. Curran and Bennett in particular work very well together and how Bennett, with his goal-scoring threat, was not given any game time last Sunday is hard to fathom.

Kilkenny under Brian Cody obviously have a daunting replay record. It has been pointed out that they have recent experience of losing a championship replay (against Dublin in 2013) but that was not a knockout match where losing really mattered. Kilkenny will also feel that they have more room to improve, especially in the midfield area where they played second fiddle last Sunday. They had a five-week break before last Sunday’s game, and had not previously been tested in the championship. It is also unlikely that TJ Reid will be as quiet in general play as he was last Sunday.

For Waterford, a key issue will be whether they will be able to absorb and act on the lessons to be learned from last Sunday’s game. Can they reproduce the same work rate and play smarter hurling? Do they need to detail a player to mark Richie Hogan (assuming he is given the same roving commission that he had last Sunday)? It is unlikely that Pauric Mahony will produce such a phenomenal scoring performance again so will someone else step forward in the scoring stakes? Will Darragh Fives be available?

Other factors that could have some bearing on the outcome of Saturday’s game include the fact that, whereas in both 2012 and 2014 Kilkenny had three weeks to prepare for their replays, this time they have just six days which could be relevant given the ageing composition of their team. Waterford’s familiarity with Thurles could be of some advantage. That was where Kilkenny experienced their last championship defeat, against Cork in 2013. Perhaps providentially, the Irish Examiner report on that game observed how “the reigning All-Ireland champions [were] dethroned by a younger, hungrier and, on the day, superior side” whose defence was “utterly dominant”.

Waterford definitely have a stronger bench, provided it is used properly (Derek McGrath does not have a good record in this respect). If Darragh Fives were available it would be a huge boost to their playing resources. Next Saturday represents Derek McGrath’s greatest managerial challenge. In my view his greatest achievement has been in developing a powerful sense of unity and fighting spirit within the camp (the Munster Final implosion notwithstanding). If he can reproduce that for next Saturday Waterford will have a great chance.

willietherock

danganabu wrote: »

You really need to get out more!

Stonewall penalty denied. How is this not a talking pt?

danganabu

willietherock wrote: »

Stonewall penalty denied. How is this not a talking pt?

You got a stonewall penalty from that freeze frame?

Any FB that didn't lay a finger on a guy in that position should be hauled off straight way. Maybe if Waterford had of had the similar nous Colin Fennelly would never have been in a position to pass to Walter Walsh for the goal?

Eoin Murphy's position, stance and angle are something that SOK would be well served to observe as well.

But all that aside my main point being that Waterford need to park last Sunday, its over, gone and will count for nothing unless they finish the job on Saturday, which incidently I believe they will, I just hope the players have parked Sunday and are looking forward as opposed to back.

hurler on de ditch

Giveitfong wrote: »

Well done to Waterford for their superb effort against Kilkenny last Sunday – a display which marks the emergence of this mainly young team as a major hurling force. In the end they were undone by a combination of their own inexperience and Kilkenny’s remarkable resilience.

After the game a number of Waterford supporters expressed their amazement at the Waterford performance, as if they thought it was not in them. We should note that eleven of the starting team last Sunday have All-Ireland medals either at minor or colleges level (or both) with substitute Patrick Curran bringing the total to 12. These are all superb hurlers with enormous potential. This was, essentially, the first time that Derek McGrath allowed the players to show what they are capable of, and boy did they grab the opportunity.

For the most part, Waterford out-Kilkennyed Kilkenny last Sunday by bringing the half forwards out to stifle the Cats in the midfield area, while at all times keeping at least two players in the full forward line to contest the flow of ball coming from midfield. By circulating the forwards, this meant that the task of falling back to midfield to work like dogs was shared among the six, thus reducing the demand on individual players. Also, instead of the hopeless long balls being played into a one (or no) man full forward line in previous games, the supply of ball coming in was generally quite good.

However, while Waterford outfought and outhurled Kilkenny for most of the game, in the end it was not enough against Kilkenny’s indomitable will to survive, their experience and their fieldcraft. When they needed a goal they were able to deliberately engineer it, and when they needed an equalising point they were able to do likewise. I am reminded of how Kilkenny worked the ball the length of the field to score the equalising point with the last puck of the game in the 1993 Leinster final against Wexford. They initially got possession when the fullback blocked down an over-the-shoulder attempt at a point by the Wexford full forward. Wexford were a point up at the time, and if the full forward had hit the ball into the Cusack Stand instead of going for a score, they would have won the game. It’s all about doing the right thing at the right time in highly-pressurised situations. Perhaps ominously for Waterford, Kilkenny romped home in the replay on that occasion.

Much has been made of Waterford’s attempt to put up the shutters in the closing stages last Sunday, an understandable move by an inexperienced team in the situation they were in. However, what was worse was the way several Waterford players blazed the ball out of defence to unmarked Kilkenny defenders in this period, thereby simply increasing the pressure on themselves. In most of these cases, the players in question had options to pass the ball to unmarked team mates. You don’t find Kilkenny, or Tipperary or Clare, giving away free ball like this.

Waterford also gave away far too many easy scores to Kilkenny through unnecessary fouls and other unforced errors. Waterford, for the most part, had to work harder for their scores and one expects that this will be even more the case next Saturday. Also, while much attention has been given to Stephen O’Keeffe turning his back on Walter Walsh’s shot for the Kilkenny goal (unforgiveable, in my view), I am surprised that no one appears to have questioned O’Keeffe’s decision to come off his line which made it easier for Walsh to find the net (although it required some skill). With Conor Gleeson converging on Walsh, if O’Keeffe had stayed on his line Walsh would have had to resort to a blaster from a narrow angle which O’Keeffe probably would have saved.

Shane Bennett’s place on the team also has to be questioned. While his pace and strong running have a certain nuisance value, his scoring contribution (both directly and in the form of assists) in recent games has been negligible. His penchant for running at defenders is particularly unlikely to yield much against Kilkenny, while his inability to look up and lay off the ball to better placed team mates is a major deficiency at this level. Early in the game, he ran through the centre of the Kilkenny defence but instead of laying off to the unmarked Jake Dillon who was well placed for a strike at goal, he kept running until he was swallowed up by the Kilkenny full backs. Later in the half, when put in possession on the end line by Dillon, he failed to pass to the unmarked Kevin Moran at the edge of the square and instead attempted to drop kick a goal which again was swallowed up by the defence.

One might also mention to Jamie Barron (who otherwise had a magnificent game) that, while his ability to run at Kilkenny from midfield was a major weapon in Waterford’s armament, doing this from inside his own 45 metre line is ill-advised. This is how Kilkenny got the initial possession from which they scored their goal. And, brilliant and all as he was, Austin Gleeson has to learn that even he is not able (at least not yet) to take on the entire Kilkenny team on his own.

There were also some bad calls by Derek McGrath. He took a punt on starting Colin Dunford who has figured very little this year (presumably because he has not been playing well enough). Dunford clearly was a bag of nerves and his failure to control two straightforward passes led to two Kilkenny points whereas these might have produced Waterford scores if handled effectively. One wonders what Brian O’Halloran has to do to get a starting place as he clearly has been ahead of Dunford in the performance stakes all year.

And, as Blueflame has already argued here, Derek McGrath should have thrown on fresh legs among the forwards in the closing stages (especially Tom Devine and Stephen Bennett). At that stage the forwards, who had put in an enormous shift, were tiring rapidly, as reflected in several missed scoring chances and poor decision-making. Fresh legs up front at that stage would have pegged Kilkenny back and perhaps yielded the extra score or two which were required to get over the line.

As for the replay, the general pattern over the years has been that where the favourites come back to snatch a draw in the first game, they usually win the replay, frequently quite comfortably. There has been some talk about Waterford, as the younger team, being more likely to have the legs and the energy to recover more quickly. However, winning replays is mainly about psychology, and there is no doubt that failing to win out last Sunday was a big psychological blow to Waterford while their late recovery was a big boost for Kilkenny.

Another thing we have learned over the years is that replays rarely take the same pattern as drawn games. Therefore it is not just a case of going out and doing it all over again. A key feature of Kilkenny’s victories in the All-Ireland final replays in 2012 and 2014 was the way they brought in new players and changed their setups whereas their opponents (Galway and Tipperary) made no changes. Kilkenny possibly have fewer backup options for personnel changes this time, but who ever heard of Walter Walsh before the 2012 replay?

Waterford therefore have to be prepared for opposition changes for Saturday and they should also be brave and make some, perhaps unexpected, changes themselves. Unfortunately, Derek McGrath is not known for making such changes (although going 15 on 15 was a refreshing change last Sunday). The most obvious “surprises” would be to throw Patrick Curran, Tom Devine and Stephen Bennett on from the start as a completely new full forward line. Curran and Bennett in particular work very well together and how Bennett, with his goal-scoring threat, was not given any game time last Sunday is hard to fathom.

Kilkenny under Brian Cody obviously have a daunting replay record. It has been pointed out that they have recent experience of losing a championship replay (against Dublin in 2013) but that was not a knockout match where losing really mattered. Kilkenny will also feel that they have more room to improve, especially in the midfield area where they played second fiddle last Sunday. They had a five-week break before last Sunday’s game, and had not previously been tested in the championship. It is also unlikely that TJ Reid will be as quiet in general play as he was last Sunday.

For Waterford, a key issue will be whether they will be able to absorb and act on the lessons to be learned from last Sunday’s game. Can they reproduce the same work rate and play smarter hurling? Do they need to detail a player to mark Richie Hogan (assuming he is given the same roving commission that he had last Sunday)? It is unlikely that Pauric Mahony will produce such a phenomenal scoring performance again so will someone else step forward in the scoring stakes? Will Darragh Fives be available?

Other factors that could have some bearing on the outcome of Saturday’s game include the fact that, whereas in both 2012 and 2014 Kilkenny had three weeks to prepare for their replays, this time they have just six days which could be relevant given the ageing composition of their team. Waterford’s familiarity with Thurles could be of some advantage. That was where Kilkenny experienced their last championship defeat, against Cork in 2013. Perhaps providentially, the Irish Examiner report on that game observed how “the reigning All-Ireland champions [were] dethroned by a younger, hungrier and, on the day, superior side” whose defence was “utterly dominant”.

Waterford definitely have a stronger bench, provided it is used properly (Derek McGrath does not have a good record in this respect). If Darragh Fives were available it would be a huge boost to their playing resources. Next Saturday represents Derek McGrath’s greatest managerial challenge. In my view his greatest achievement has been in developing a powerful sense of unity and fighting spirit within the camp (the Munster Final implosion notwithstanding). If he can reproduce that for next Saturday Waterford will have a great chance.

lots of fellas made mistakes on both sides ,TDB gave away two very very cheap frees and handed another score from an extremely poor hand pass,K Moran was his usual self brilliant and frustrating giving the ball away on numerous occasions and hitting a few bad wides ,

blueflame

Much has been made of the level of Waterford performance and can they reach it again. Likewise KK were supposedly so bad. Having reviewed the game in its entirety twice my own views differ somewhat from this.

a) I believe KK did not play that badly, they were constantly in touch with us, they did not hit huge amounts of wides, won a fair degree of breaking ball, did not concede lost of needless frees and generally used the ball quite well. It is just that they did not dominate Waterford as much as they have dominated teams in the past.

b) Waterford while playing well and getting some excellent scores from difficult angles made quite a number of mistakes that resulted in coughing up some handy scores from play and soft frees. As recognized by everyone also made some poor decisions that could otherwise have yielded three or four real goal opportunities.

Every game is different and takes on a life of its own, the important thing for Saturday night will be to get the psychology right and get the team structure right. We again need to press the KK defence and not allow them dominate. This will help our backs greatly in their job as it gives them a good outlet to get rid of the ball and also results in less quality ball being delivered inside. Our lads must be made to believe they can deliver a performance of the same intensity.

I have heard it said Mahony and Gleeson wont score those kind of points again, both are superb marksmen on their day, but if they are not the might try and work the ball into better positions. I believe there is a lot more to come from Dillon, who got his first start in a while, Dunford or Maurice whichever if either starts have loads of room for improvement, and Shane Bennett has also much more in him.

I believe Saturday night wil be a tight affair but if we get our attitude and structure right, this is going to be a right close game, which hopefully we can edge. KK are not the team of the past, while they have won replays, they are not the same side that won all these games, but one thing that is sure is they have plenty of hurling, they will be committed and they will not be beaten easily. If we are to win this game it will be another nail biter - but I believe we can do it

THe question si will the team and managment believe it - i hope so.

Realt Dearg Sec

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

you know that famous saying ,they are a great team on paper ,pity the game is played on grass

On grass they're going for three in a row.

hurler on de ditch

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

On grass they're going for three in a row.

exactly my point

conditioned games

Would it be best to revert back to a sweeper Sat? Going 15 on 15 caught KK off guard the last day forcing long puckouts. However this time they'll do their usual and drop their half forwards and half backs back deep conjesting their own half. If all the space is in the Waterford half and packed in the KK half then we don't have a chance. I'd prefer if WD have 2 in the full forward and a sweeper this time similar to the 1st round in Munster. Same tactic as last day won't be good enough next time.

hurler on de ditch

conditioned games wrote: »

Would it be best to revert back to a sweeper Sat? Going 15 on 15 caught KK off guard the last day forcing long puckouts. However this time they'll do their usual and drop their half forwards and half backs back deep conjesting their own half. If all the space is in the Waterford half and packed in the KK half then we don't have a chance. I'd prefer if WD have 2 in the full forward and a sweeper this time similar to the 1st round in Munster. Same tactic as last day won't be good enough next time.

best form of defence is attack,we had them well and truly beat last day ,go out and do exactly the same ,go for it ,leave them do what they want the more they drop back the better ,we have the hurlers to take them on no matter what way they go at it ,same can be said for them ,just go out and hurl.we have a unbelievable spine to the team ,SOK,COUGHLAN,AUSSIE,BARRON,MAHONY,and hopefully SHANAHAN OR A,N, OTHER ,IT DOESN'T MATTER, give it a lash saturday night same as sunday and with a bit of luck we will deservedly come out on top ,up the Deise

conditioned games

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

best form of defence is attack,we had them well and truly beat last day ,go out and do exactly the same ,go for it ,leave them do what they want the more they drop back the better ,we have the hurlers to take them on no matter what way they go at it ,same can be said for them ,just go out and hurl.we have a unbelievable spine to the team ,SOK,COUGHLAN,AUSSIE,BARRON,MAHONY,and hopefully SHANAHAN OR A,N, OTHER ,IT DOESN'T MATTER, give it a lash saturday night same as sunday and with a bit of luck we will deservedly come out on top ,up the Deise

No matter how good a teams forwards are if they don't have the space, ball will be turned over. Has happened Galway and Tipp plenty times in the past. They need to be clever about it anyway and adjust during the game. When KK brought a corner forward out to midfield in last years all Ireland 5mins into second half it was the winning of the game as Galway kept doing what previously worked for them.

HatchetMan7

Cody is very good at making changes that work, no doubt there'll be a few come Saturday. He'll have Kilkenny primed to try and win two key battles (which overall they lost last week). The aerial battle and also any ground skirmishes from breaking ball. I think it would be a mistake to send Waterford out the exact same way as last Sunday and i'd expect a few small changes for the replay.
Apparently Darragh Fives failed a fitness test the day before the match and said himself that he was 50/50 early last week. If Darragh Fives is fit to play i'd name him corner forward and use him as an extra midfielder. He'd be one of our best options to pick up Hogan if he plays a similar role to last week. Fives is also very accurate from long range and was one of Waterfords best players in 2013 scoring 3 points from play when he lined out at midfield against the same opposition.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Dunford start again on Shane Prendergast. It was the right idea from the management but unfortunately for Dunford he looked a little rusty. Dunford had pulled Prendergast out the wing and if he controlled those two balls he would surely have burned him for pace. IMO though i would start Brian O' Halloran in that corner. He has plenty of pace and i think he's better than Dunford for getting his head up and offloading to a runner. Shane Bennett might also lose out for the replay but in fairness to him if he got enough quality ball he could have a massive game for Waterford. I think its only a matter of time before things start to click for him as his workrate has improved again from last year. I would also like to see Stephan Bennett go in full forward at some stage in the 2nd half and try and work ball to him. He could be the ace up our sleeve.