Big Story In Irish Racing

jimjamcos

Was the big news really Joseph riding less Moore riding more for AOB?

Lt J.R. Bell

hurleronditch wrote: »

Does Joseph need a different licence to ride under NH rules, specifically over jumps? I remember a load of brouhaha when one of the top flat guys, possibly Fallon, rode in the Cheltenham bumper in the early 00's and what had to happen to make that happen at the time?

I'd imagine like Jamie Spencer and Richard Hughes, he has both. Many jockeys get both licences. Would be shocked that Joseph doesn't have one considering he has always talked about going NH and, considering his family background.

Lt J.R. Bell

jimjamcos wrote: »

Was the big news really Joseph riding less Moore riding more for AOB?

This is only happening as Joseph needs more time to get the weight down. He intends to be back in full action soon.Of course, what will happen is another matter.

Jaysus I know Moore has travelled to the other side of the world just for one race, after a busy Saturday in England, but he will be knackered on Sunday. It's not like there's much at stake, wonder why Baldoyle didn't just give a few good horse to someone like Colm O'Donoghue. He tends to be reliable. Love to see whether Moore sticks around after the races when the Battalion of horses do their prep runs.akward

Lt J.R. Bell

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It's actually a farcical situation that the worlds pre-eminent flat racing operation has no clue who their number one stable jockey is going into the start of the season.

Ah come on, this is the stable that took on and then lost Mick Kinane and Johnny Murtagh, over stupid things. They failed to nature and reign in Jamie Spencer, who, did go on to win two British Championships.

Lt J.R. Bell

ken wrote: »

I'm gonna stick my neck out and get it chopped off. Young master O'Brien to take over riding J.P's horses when A.P. retires.

Steady on, let us see how he does in Ireland first. Very possible he gets a few of Jps in Ireland. Then again, if I was Mark Walsh I would be livid if that happened

The English job is Geraghty if he wanted it. Would he? Does Henderson have much going on in the future? Paul Townend probably knows where has more sense, considering Rubys not getting any younger.

jimjamcos

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Ah come on, this is the stable that took on and then lost Mick Kinane and Johnny Murtagh, over stupid things. They failed to nature and reign in Jamie Spencer, who, did go on to win two British Championships.

In fairness, Kinane and Murtagh couldn't cope with AOB's intolerably high standards, even though both were gifted. AOB's obsessive genius will always make him hard to work for and Joseph has really only lasted because of the blood link. Still though,it's what makes AOB the great that he is. Spencer was never good enough.

Lt J.R. Bell

Hey

jimjamcos wrote: »

In fairness, Kinane and Murtagh couldn't cope with AOB's intolerably high standards, even though both were gifted. AOB's obsessive genius will always make him hard to work for and Joseph has really only lasted because of the blood link. Still though,it's what makes AOB the great that he is. Spencer was never good enough.

One story is that Aidan didn't take too kindly to Johnny berating a young Joseph over a badly run race in Listowel

Of course that is a story only. There are always two sides to each story.Johnny Murtagh would likely be the type to say "Johnny Murtagh will only tolerate so much and be told how to ride a horse "

For someone who tolerates high standards, Joseph got lucky to hang on to the gig, blood ties or not. Longchamp was a bit of a disaster with Glen Eagles getting disqualified (I know, the rules are different, that that decision was harsh)

Find it hard to believe that Aidan, who never rode a horse professionally (I know he was a champion amateur NH jockey) could keep telling Kinane stuff he didn't know alread, not at a period where Aidan was starting to really establish himself as a champion flat trainer on a consistent basis

Now, this is blasphemous, but for his so called genius, and he is, he is pretty lousy in selecting pace makers, and sometimes tactics. Sometimes when he's throwing half of the Derby field with his horses,you would thin he is bluffing as to who he thinks might win lol. Of course, when they win and place, it looks great.

BumperD

Big story in Irish Racing? for who? Yawn.

Francie Barrett

hurleronditch wrote: »

Does Joseph need a different licence to ride under NH rules, specifically over jumps?

He got his jumps licence in 2013.

galljga1

BumperD wrote: »

Big story in Irish Racing? for who? Yawn.

I have to agree. Why all the mystery? big build up?

Who cares?

Harry Angstrom

Be interesting to see if Aidan decides to train a few more jumpers now that Joseph is going down the NH route, unless JP decides to give him the McCoy retainer

Great to see Ryan Moore taking the top job.

jimjamcos

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Be interesting to see if Aidan decides to train a few more jumpers now that Joseph is going down the NH route, unless JP decides to give him the McCoy retainer

Great to see Ryan Moore taking the top job.

He hasn't been given the job though?

Harry Angstrom

jimjamcos wrote: »

He hasn't been given the job though?

I doubt that Ryan Moore would consent to be the understudy for anybody until they got things sorted out. The fact that he's riding at The Curragh on Sunday says plenty. It's patently obvious that Joseph has weight issues and it's hardly going to get any better as he gets older - unless he adopts the Piggott diet of champagne and cigars.

jimjamcos

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I doubt that Ryan Moore would consent to be the understudy for anybody until they got things sorted out. The fact that he's riding at The Curragh on Sunday says plenty. It's patently obvious that Joseph has weight issues and it's hardly going to get any better as he gets older - unless he adopts the Piggott diet of champagne and cigars.

Moore's no understudy, but neither is he the stable's confirmed no.1. The general consensus is that Moore is perfectly happy picking up top rides from Ballydoyle, and any other top operation, without being tied to a retainer. It's giving him plenty of freedom, not to mention success.

Andalucia

O'Donoghue and Heffernan must feel like some plebs - first day of the season and theyr'e not good enough to pick up a few rides - granted O'Brien had a winner, but the stable is usually slow to pick up pace - Moore must have been red-eyed after a tough day in Meydan and flight straight back

its a joke that Magnier and co put up with the nonsense regarding a stable jockey - Joseph barely does the weights on those he rides most of the time - I'd love to know how many instances of overweight he put up in Ireland last day - it will be a lot, very tolerant Irish stewards

no chance of him getting any AP retainer over jumps - would struggle to get rides outside of those his father trains for NH

Shemale

Did you see Today FM, being different were just horsing around and foaling people, I know straight from the 80s!

Their marketing team and John Duggan should get the hoof as I doubt I am alone saying there is neigh chance of me ever tuning in again.

Do they really think pretending they have news is going to attract people.

galljga1

Shemale wrote: »

Did you see Today FM, being different were just horsing around and foaling people, I know straight from the 80s!

Their marketing team and John Duggan should get the hoof as I doubt I am alone saying there is neigh chance of me ever tuning in again.

Do they really think pretending they have news is going to attract people.

+ 1 for that.

convert

Andalucia wrote: »

I'd love to know how many instances of overweight he put up in Ireland last day - it will be a lot, very tolerant Irish stewards

It really depends on who you are. There was a incident in the last 18 months or so where a rider wasn't allowed ride their parents' horse because they were putting up 2 or 3lbs overweight over fences.

BumperD

Shemale wrote: »

Did you see Today FM, being different were just horsing around and foaling people, I know straight from the 80s!

Their marketing team and John Duggan should get the hoof as I doubt I am alone saying there is neigh chance of me ever tuning in again.

Do they really think pretending they have news is going to attract people.

Lazy marketing/radio presenting.

Lt J.R. Bell

Andalucia wrote: »

O'Donoghue and Heffernan must feel like some plebs - first day of the season and theyr'e not good enough to pick up a few rides - granted O'Brien had a winner, but the stable is usually slow to pick up pace - Moore must have been red-eyed after a tough day in Meydan and flight straight back

its a joke that Magnier and co put up with the nonsense regarding a stable jockey - Joseph barely does the weights on those he rides most of the time - I'd love to know how many instances of overweight he put up in Ireland last day - it will be a lot, very tolerant Irish stewards

no chance of him getting any AP retainer over jumps - would struggle to get rides outside of those his father trains for NH

If I recall, he was a pound over weight for the Irish Championship last year.of course, that wasn't the reason Australia lost

kfallon

Andalucia wrote: »

O'Donoghue and Heffernan must feel like some plebs - first day of the season and theyr'e not good enough to pick up a few rides

Seamie Heffernan must pinch himself every day, totally average jockey yet his C.V. is the envy of most, won multiple Classics in Ireland and G1's here and in Britain. I'd say he can't believe his luck and is happy to continue as he is, usually picks up at least one G1 a season with a few other Listed/Group races.

tipptom

convert wrote: »

It really depends on who you are. There was a incident in the last 18 months or so where a rider wasn't allowed ride their parents' horse because they were putting up 2 or 3lbs overweight over fences.

+1,this has gone so far that AOB was delaring his horses that Joeseph was riding with the over weight last year,could have been something that was worked out.
You don't mind somebody arriving on the day and finding that they are 1 or 2lb overweight because the wasting didn't work out the day before but this is ridiculous that the stewards haven't come down on this serial overweight crack and now that JOB has probably gone over the other side the stewards might grow a pair now and put a stop to it.

paddy no 11

Feel sorry for Joey in all this. If it was easy he'd do the weight. Got to be tough for a young fella. Ok he's been born into it, but still can't be easy working for your old man in such a high profile manner.

tipptom

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Feel sorry for Joey in all this. If it was easy he'd do the weight. Got to be tough for a young fella. Ok he's been born into it, but still can't be easy working for your old man in such a high profile manner.

Between the O Briens,the Crowleys,McManuses et al,i wouldn't mind having that problem and he should be able 10st comfortably.

solwhit12

kfallon wrote: »

Seamie Heffernan must pinch himself every day, totally average jockey yet his C.V. is the envy of most, won multiple Classics in Ireland and G1's here and in Britain. I'd say he can't believe his luck and is happy to continue as he is, usually picks up at least one G1 a season with a few other Listed/Group races.

Heffernan is a lot better than Joseph IMO .very rarely does anything wrong.himself and colm should be riding all the horses when Moore can't.

Shemale

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Feel sorry for Joey in all this. If it was easy he'd do the weight. Got to be tough for a young fella. Ok he's been born into it, but still can't be easy working for your old man in such a high profile manner.

Why feel sorry for him, he should have switched codes last year as he has no chance of doing 9 stone.

I used to think he was great and have lost all the admiration with every race he was overweight, he is hurtling towards "complete arsehole" territory.

People saying his dad this and that, he is nearly 22 and should have the balls to say dad I cant do the weight so I am going to ride national hunt

Andalucia

tipptom wrote: »

+1,this has gone so far that AOB was delaring his horses that Joeseph was riding with the over weight last year,could have been something that was worked out.
You don't mind somebody arriving on the day and finding that they are 1 or 2lb overweight because the wasting didn't work out the day before but this is ridiculous that the stewards haven't come down on this serial overweight crack and now that JOB has probably gone over the other side the stewards might grow a pair now and put a stop to it.

that's the crux of the matter, stewards should not have tolerated the issue for so long - in two major races last year, he weighed in overweight by 1 to 2 pounds, cant help his race riding performance either when the weight is such an issue in the background

Joseph looks to be loosing the battle with the scales, unless they can get him on the nutritional regime that will lead to certain weight loss like a certain major pro cycling team, he is killing himself trying to make 9 stone which he can't do on a consistent basis anyway, must be tough to face up to the reality though that you can't ride these great horses anymore - being honest, the majority of apprentices of his era would have done equally as good a job as he has done given the quality of horses he is riding is often far superior - few races stand out as he has won owing to prowess in the saddle, but plenty stand out owing to weight or inability to ride a better race owing to wasting to make a weight

Moore will be more than happy to pick and choose as he has always done, handy enough to jet over on Sunday when the best flat Irish racing takes place anyway - Stoute stable job isn't what it was

Coolmore is a multi million pund operation, I believe Magnier and Tabor have realised that nepotism has no role in its operation - getting Australia beat last year was the final straw

pugw

Shemale wrote: »

Why feel sorry for him, he should have switched codes last year as he has no chance of doing 9 stone.

I used to think he was great and have lost all the admiration with every race he was overweight, he is hurtling towards "complete arsehole" territory.

People saying his dad this and that, he is nearly 22 and should have the balls to say dad I cant do the weight so I am going to ride national hunt

Why should he? If his old man and john magnier are happy for him to stay in the saddle whether he's a pound or so overweight surely that's there call! I think he gets a lot if unfair/bitter criticism, he's only a young lad at the end of the day!! If lads think he's an impediment to a particular horse then dont back it!

tryfix

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

If I recall, he was a pound over weight for the Irish Championship last year.of course, that wasn't the reason Australia lost

It's not the only reason he was beaten, it is the reason that he didn't win. Australia lost by 1/4l, 1lb weight over 10f is equal to more than 1/2l.

That 1lb overweight did serious damage to the reputation of one of the best horses that O'Brien has trained. The scenic route that Joey took cost the horse another few lengths. When you put them all together Australia wouldn't have been far off the 2l that he beat The Grey Gatsby by on his previous run. Joey's ride and overweight deprived the horse of a 129/130 rating which would have made him the equal of Galileo, it also deprived him of his 4th Gp1 win in a row and an undefeated season at middle distances.:mad:

BumperD

Ironic that Moore put up 1lb over weight on Easter last Sunday at the curragh.

Anyway, job should make the move to nh full time. You can only defy nature so long.