Jump! they shouted, so he did, to his death

K4t

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

I hope they also have to live with a criminal conviction.

No.

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Editing is fun

Stupid editing, so I guess you should be charged with a crime, right? For being stupid..

IrishTrajan

anncoates wrote: »

You still being around to post here somewhat negates that theory.

I get it! You're implying that I'm not fit. Oh, that was quite witty. Top points for you, friend.

K4t

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I get it! You're implying that I'm not fit. Oh, that was quite witty. Top points for you, friend.

I thought it was a witty response to an entirely idiotic post and thus thanked him.

IrishTrajan

K4t wrote: »

I thought it was a witty response to an entirely idiotic post and thus thanked him.

Another zinger! You are on point today, my friend. You should think about being a professional meme-poster. I hear the Finnish are opening internships with Spurdo Sparda.

anncoates

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I get it! You're implying that I'm not fit

Your powers of deduction are wasted in here. You should become a private detective.

Hans Bricks

Poor chap. Nasty thing to hear before taking the leap.

Egginacup wrote: »

I think you'll find that the poorest elements of society, whether they be penniless or on benefits as a result of their ill-fortune, will display throes more sympathy, empathy and assistance to their fellow man than the moneyed class to which you yearn to belong. I'm not poor. In fact I'm now well off and in my travels only the weak have displayed the kind of compassion to me that has left a lump in my throat. Don't say something as flippant and disgusting regarding poor people.

D wurkin' class !! I don't think he's talking about those on minimum wage or hard times.

IrishTrajan

anncoates wrote: »

Your powers of deduction are wasted in here. You should become a private detective.

Pretty amusing tbh. You should consider going into business together, lads.

K4t

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Pretty amusing tbh. You should consider going into business together, lads.

Alone we stand, together we fall apart. See, even the Strokes are smarter than you.

IrishTrajan

K4t wrote: »

Alone we stand, together we fall apart. See, even the Strokes are smarter than you.

0/10 see me after class.

cloud493

IrishTrajan wrote: »

So the guy leapt to his death... It's survival of the fittest at work.

Or its some poor bloke that needed help?

GLaDOS

Folks could we cut out the bickering and sniping please?

K4t

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Folks could we cut out the bickering and sniping please?

No.

Saipanne

A significant amount of people in this thread would probably do the same.

K4t

Saipanne wrote: »

A significant amount of people in this thread would probably do the same.

Those who regard suicide as being selfish, or who describe it as survival of the fittest, are more sickening and more damaging in the long run than those shouting jump at a guy standing on a building.

sbsquarepants

kylith wrote: »

Yes, I think you are being naive.

A person is generally decent, people can be despicable. It was ever thus. At one point going to public hangings was seen as a great day out for all the family.

I guarantee if there was a public hanging in town tomorrow, there would be a baying crowd there to watch it.
Just look at the amount of people who'll quite happily sit down with a cup of tea and a biscuit and watch some poor bastard getting his head chopped off by isis or burned in a cage or something equally disgusting. A large percentage of people are absolute arseholes - always were, always will be.

GLaDOS

K4t wrote: »

No.

I'll stop being so nice then: cut it out. It's dragging everything off topic.

Cards will be handed out if it continues

IrishTrajan

K4t wrote: »

Those who regard suicide as being selfish, or who describe it as survival of the fittest, are more sickening and more damaging in the long run than those shouting jump at a guy standing on a building.

Yeah, yeah, let's all sit around and talk about our feelings while humming "kumbaya" and making Brigid's Crosses.

I don't feel anything for this man, nor do I feel anything for anyone who commits suicide. What good is me feeling bad for them, aside from jerking an ego? I've had family kill themselves, and attempt to kill themselves. My worrying over them doesn't help in anyway, and just makes me feel down in the dumps.

It is survival of the fittest. In the purest, coldest, most logical manner. It is weeding out the weak, maybe not weak physically, but mentally. You taking offence to my joke is just you trying to feel good.

You don't care about this person, you probably don't even know their name. Even if you do know their name, you'll forget it in a year or two, lost to the hands of time.

So get off your moral high-horse. There's no point in weeping for the dead, it won't do them any good.

cloud493

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, let's all sit around and talk about our feelings while humming "kumbaya" and making Brigid's Crosses.

I don't feel anything for this man, nor do I feel anything for anyone who commits suicide. What good is me feeling bad for them, aside from jerking an ego? I've had family kill themselves, and attempt to kill themselves. My worrying over them doesn't help in anyway, and just makes me feel down in the dumps.

It is survival of the fittest. In the purest, coldest, most logical manner. It is weeding out the weak, maybe not weak physically, but mentally. You taking offence to my joke is just you trying to feel good.

You don't care about this person, you probably don't even know their name. Even if you do know their name, you'll forget it in a year or two, lost to the hands of time.

So get off your moral high-horse. There's no point in weeping for the dead, it won't do them any good.

Well no. Sometimes things can get so bad, it seems like dying is the best thing, its better than living. Those people need help, not encouragement. Us feeling bad is empathy. Empathy is what makes us human. As awful as stuff like this is, the only possible good thing that might come out of it is more awareness so stuff like this don't happen again.

These poor people deserve better, not being told its weeding them out.

Saipanne

cloud493 wrote: »

Well no. Sometimes things can get so bad, it seems like dying is the best thing, its better than living. Those people need help, not encouragement. Us feeling bad is empathy. Empathy is what makes us human. As awful as stuff like this is, the only possible good thing that might come out of it is more awareness so stuff like this don't happen again.

These poor people deserve better, not being told its weeding them out.

I just think some people lack the basic tools for empathy. Simple as that. I pity them.

Zippie84

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, let's all sit around and talk about our feelings while humming "kumbaya" and making Brigid's Crosses.

I don't feel anything for this man, nor do I feel anything for anyone who commits suicide. What good is me feeling bad for them, aside from jerking an ego? I've had family kill themselves, and attempt to kill themselves. My worrying over them doesn't help in anyway, and just makes me feel down in the dumps.

It is survival of the fittest. In the purest, coldest, most logical manner. It is weeding out the weak, maybe not weak physically, but mentally. You taking offence to my joke is just you trying to feel good.

You don't care about this person, you probably don't even know their name. Even if you do know their name, you'll forget it in a year or two, lost to the hands of time.

So get off your moral high-horse. There's no point in weeping for the dead, it won't do them any good.

I can only speak for myself, nobody else - but can say that I truly care about this man, and any other person who feels so bad inside that they think of taking their own lives.

Thankfully for me it's not a matter of what good will it do me to care about another human being - life for me is much bigger than just me, I can see beyond myself and my own life and feelings, and I don't make a choice to care or not care, to feel compassion or not compassion. I don't choose to feel things towards fellow human beings who are in pain. It's just my natural human instinct.

It would be nice in some ways if it was as black and white a subject overall as it is for you. It would be nice in some ways if it was a case of survival of the fittest. People are weak mentally? Build up their mental strength and all is fine. If only.

Thankfully enough research has been done to help us know the reality, which is much more complex than that, and thankfully we are seeing more and more people open up their mind enough to start to understand some of the complexities.

You don't need me repeating those, they've already been said enough times, and I feel like you already know them, but it's probably easier to believe what you believe. To be 'cold and logical'. Unfortunately life is anything but, and suicide is anything but logical or cold.

IrishTrajan

cloud493 wrote: »

Well no. Sometimes things can get so bad, it seems like dying is the best thing, its better than living. Those people need help, not encouragement. Us feeling bad is empathy. Empathy is what makes us human. As awful as stuff like this is, the only possible good thing that might come out of it is more awareness so stuff like this don't happen again.

These poor people deserve better, not being told its weeding them out.

I made a joke about survival of the fittest, which is also true in the most emotionless of explanations.

I believe we should invest in mental health, but crying over a dead person is absolutely useless and does nothing for us, or them. Rather than complaining that some people were being mean and had a mentally unstable person jump after the person has already died, we could spend money on mental health clinics.

Or we could, you know, sit around and jerk off our egos and complain about people being emotionless sociopaths and that they should be ashamed of themselves, to make ourselves feel good about doing something, whilst actually doing nothing to alleviate the problems.

Zippie84

cloud493 wrote: »

Well no. Sometimes things can get so bad, it seems like dying is the best thing, its better than living.

Yes, and anyone of us can reach that point so easily. Who knows what life has in store, and how we would react to it.

Congrats to anyone who feels that they're too mentally strong to be affected by hard times. Chances are you'll be proven wrong at some point unfortunately.

cloud493

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I made a joke about survival of the fittest, which is also true in the most emotionless of explanations.

I believe we should invest in mental health, but crying over a dead person is absolutely useless and does nothing for us, or them. Rather than complaining that some people were being mean and had a mentally unstable person jump after the person has already died, we could spend money on mental health clinics.

Or we could, you know, sit around and jerk off our egos and complain about people being emotionless sociopaths and that they should be ashamed of themselves, to make ourselves feel good about doing something, whilst actually doing nothing to alleviate the problems.

So, some bloke felt so bad he took his own life, while encouraged to do so by people near by, and we shouldn't discuss it? Or his family shouldn't feel intense sorrow?
Discussion helps us understand things, and how to deal with them better.

Zippie84

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I believe we should invest in mental health, but crying over a dead person is absolutely useless and does nothing for us, or them. Rather than complaining that some people were being mean and had a mentally unstable person jump after the person has already died, we could spend money on mental health clinics.

It's the words 'rather than' that say so much here for me.

Absolutely yes more money should be spent on mental health services. When people reach out as they are constantly encouraged to do, the right services, resources and support should be available, and too often it isn't.

This does not mean at the same time that we shouldn't be condemning people who encourage a man on a building to jump.

This doesn't meant that we can't learn from their stupidity.

We should be investing more in mental health services. We also need to improve attitudes.

A suicidal person may receive help from mental health services. At the same time, they will come into contact constantly with all kinds of people in their lives - colleagues, family, friends, acquaintances, neighbours etc. Yes, we need to improve services. We also need to improve understanding of suicide and compassionate responses from people generally in the person's lives.

Suicide prevention is everyone's business, and we all play a part in it. It's so far from just being limited to services, and it's not a 'do either this or do that' picture. There's much more to suicide prevention than that.

Saipanne

I've never viewed suicide as a weakness, myself. Where do you find the courage to pull it off? Every instinct I'm your body saying not to do it, and you overcome it. I couldn't get past that fear, I think.

Penny Tration

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I made a joke about survival of the fittest, which is also true in the most emotionless of explanations.

I believe we should invest in mental health, but crying over a dead person is absolutely useless and does nothing for us, or them. Rather than complaining that some people were being mean and had a mentally unstable person jump after the person has already died, we could spend money on mental health clinics.

Or we could, you know, sit around and jerk off our egos and complain about people being emotionless sociopaths and that they should be ashamed of themselves, to make ourselves feel good about doing something, whilst actually doing nothing to alleviate the problems.

So, you believe more should be done for mental health, yet joke about suicide? Riiiiight.

But it's okay, because they're already dead? Your views are quite contradictory. If there's a suicidal person reading this thread, and they post about being suicidal, you'd suggest they get help, I imagine, based on your assertion that more needs to be done for mentally ill people. But he or she would have already read your 'joke' (jokes should be funny, btw), and would know that really, you don't give a bollocks, so any 'more needs to be done to help people' platitudes are just that - bollocks.

IrishTrajan

cloud493 wrote: »

So, some bloke felt so bad he took his own life, while encouraged to do so by people near by, and we shouldn't discuss it? Or his family shouldn't feel intense sorrow?
Discussion helps us understand things, and how to deal with them better.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't talk about it, but I am saying that people who label others like myself, who are entirely indifferent to whether a stranger kill themselves, as "idiots" while doing nothing themselves to better the lives of people is ridiculous.

Most people just want to jump on a bandwagon and feel good about doing something, when a lot of the time nothing is good except they've had their ego stoked. It's farcical. It's nonsensical.

A handful of people might try to treat people a bit kinder, but most people who are voicing outrage over this and the people involved, are never going to do anything about it. They'd rather sit on their thumbs and complain about other people's actions, than to look at their own actions.

Saipanne wrote: »

I've never viewed suicide as a weakness, myself. Where do you find the courage to pull it off? Every instinct I'm your body saying not to do it, and you overcome it. I couldn't get past that fear, I think.

I look at it in a more convoluted way, but I think we look at it the same, where death is fearful.

My thought process is: If you're going to kill yourself, go do something you wouldn't normally do. Strike up a conversation with a chick you find attractive, or join the military, become a gun for hire, pack a bag and just walk out the door and go where your feet take you.. Do something.

Even if you end up at risk of drowning in the Atlantic, or being caught in a warzone, or being chased by lions in the savannah.. You were looking at 100% mortality rate when you were considering suicide, so get your balls in your hands and take the world on. The best case scenario: You enjoy life. The worst? You die, just as you'd die anyway if you tried to kill yourself.

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

So, you believe more should be done for mental health, yet joke about suicide? Riiiiight.

But it's okay, because they're already dead? Your views are quite contradictory. If there's a suicidal person reading this thread, and they post about being suicidal, you'd suggest they get help, I imagine, based on your assertion that more needs to be done for mentally ill people. But he or she would have already read your 'joke' (jokes should be funny, btw), and would know that really, you don't give a bollocks, so any 'more needs to be done to help people' platitudes are just that - bollocks.

"You can only make jokes that are within my arbitrarily designed safe zone!". Get a grip.

Stop arguing with emotions. I'm looking at this from a logical standpoint. If we spend money on mental health, we have productive workers. The more productive workers, the more society prospers.

Do I care about a suicidal person's feelings? Not really. I'm not naive enough to think the feelings of individuals will ever have an impact on how humans interact.

I don't expect people to change and pander to me just because of my emotions and feelings, nor will I pander to someone else's. That's the beauty of being an adult, I'm responsible for myself, and you're responsible for yourself.

jokes should be funny, btw

"Only things that I find funny are actually amusing". Drop the condescension and the political correctness.

Where do we draw the line between what's funny and what isn't? Which arbitrary line do we say is safe to cross, and which isn't?

I'm blind in my left eye, does that mean people shouldn't make blind jokes? I also have a large nose, should they not make jokes about that? I make blind jokes all the time, and my crippled friend makes cripple jokes all the time. They're how we cope with serious issues. It's a coping mechanism.

For someone who seems to care about the fragility of the human psyche, you sure don't seem to have much of a clue, do you?

Mod

IrishTrajan don't post in this thread again.

Zippie84

IrishTrajan wrote: »

My thought process is: If you're going to kill yourself, go do something you wouldn't normally do. Strike up a conversation with a chick you find attractive, or join the military, become a gun for hire, pack a bag and just walk out the door and go where your feet take you.. Do something.

Even if you end up at risk of drowning in the Atlantic, or being caught in a warzone, or being chased by lions in the savannah.. You were looking at 100% mortality rate when you were considering suicide, so get your balls in your hands and take the world on. The best case scenario: You enjoy life. The worst? You die, just as you'd die anyway if you tried to kill yourself.

And see, the thing is, it seems to actually be that black and white for you.

Firstly that your focus is on the person's desire to die, (which isn't what it's usually about), rather than a way to end the pain.

That the focus doesn't seem to be on the pain at all.

It may be the case that the person is able to just go and do something.

It may be the case on the other than that they're completely consumed by pain that they can't bear another second of feeling that way. That they are feeling every negative emotion at once and it's unbearable. That how you are feeling leaves you basically completely unable to function full stop, never mind go do something.

Or it may be any other scenario. Every case is different, every person is different, and it's not black and white in the slightest.

The key thing is the pain, they want a way to end the pain, and it's about finding a way to end that. Ideally other than through suicide.

If they can just go and do something and that will end the emotional pain, great. Unlikely to be the case of it being quite that simple in most cases. If it was a case of just going and doing something and that takes away the unbearable emotional pain, then great, but the emotional pain was maybe not all that unbearable if it was taken away so easily.

What will be more likely to help is understanding the pain, and relieving it. 'Things' are less likely to relieve the emotional pain than 'people'. Compassion and support and reassurance and care from people.

When living hurts so much, when you're hurting so much inside that you can see no other way through but suicide, chances also are you're unlikely to be thinking as simply as 'I'll just go and do something to see if it would make me feel better'.

Even mental health services themselves receive frequent complaints from their service users that they are constantly fobbed off with suggestions of distractions etc, but that what really helps is being listened to, cared and supported. To feel that you matter. To have someone truly care and listen.

Zippie84

IrishTrajan wrote: »

.

Do I care about a suicidal person's feelings? Not really. I'm not naive enough to think the feelings of individuals will ever have an impact on how humans interact.

Honest statement. Shame to see such complete naivety. And more than 'feelings' of individuals impacting on how humans interact, it's the behaviour of humans that most impact on how other humans interact.

It's not enough to just feel things. We need to bring the feelings into everyday life, and treat other human beings as we would like to be treated.

But how can we change that behaviour if we don't develop an understanding? How can we truly have compassion if we don't understand on some level what we are trying to be compassionate about?

You don't care about how people are suicidal feel - despite that, I greatly hope that if you feel that way in future (because after all, it's proven not to be just about being 'mentally weak') you will have people in your life who care about how you feel, and will be compassionate and empathetic and supportive towards you.