Learner mistakes

The Black Oil

I thought I'd post this as I've a few questions I'd like to ask, or get a sense of what direction to head in.

Equipment: D50 with kit lens, and 70-300mm. Recent purchases: 50mm lens, sb700 flash and a tripod.
Status: n00b :pac:

To begin, what are some of the main mistakes that people make starting out in photography? For one, from looking and reading around, is to slow the eff down.

I've signed up to lynda.com and watched a good few tutorials on Youtube. For example, here and here. Also, Jared Polin. He seems like fun. Due to work and commitments I've not had a chance to go out and shoot much, really. I've only started to get into photography since January. I've not used auto since then, which is a step in the right direction, I guess. My interests would be in the outdoors, nature, landscape, etc.

There's a floodlit football match on tonight, I might head along to try and see what can be learned from that. Maybe I'm still too all over the place and should learn one aspect at a time, though.

DaireQuinlan

I'd say ... spend less time watching youtube videos and more of that time actually taking photographs. Watching celebrity photographers all day isn't going to make you a better photographer. Taking photographs is though. Even on auto

The Black Oil

Indeed.

Youtube is helpful in a kinda 'ah right', mental note type way.

bpmurray

I'm a learner too, and likely to be for a very long time - I don't want to ever stop learning. I'm also rather a beginner - at least my pics never seem to hit what other can do with the same scene, although I have a few nice pics.

I'll share what I've done because I strongly agree with @DaireQuinlan's suggestion. I started with a bridge camera and quickly switched to RAW format. This allows me to recover from so many decisions I make with the camera settings, that I now exclusively use RAW, despite the fact that the files are larger and take more time to write to disk.

I moved on and now have a D3300 with the kit lens, as well as a bridge with a 1200mm-equivalent lens: there's no way on earth I could justify spending the €10K+ required to get such a lens for my DSLR, so it's a good compromise. I plan on investing in a fast prime lens, probably the f1.4 35mm in the not too distant future, but there's still so much to learn, I have no plans to extend the amount of kit I have beyond that.

So my rules are:

• Take loads of pics, all the time, everywhere. and 10 or even 20 at a time - there's loads of room on that memory card and on your hard disk. I just checked - I have over 46000 photos on my PC, although I should definitely cull the rubbish.
• Use RAW - you have all the information so you can recover and effectively reshoot it on the PC if required.
• Learn your camera: understand what happens when you use each and every control. Read the manual. The amount of kit you have is irrelevant - it's how it's used that makes the difference.

Note that these are my rules and may or may not apply to you. And the pros here will tell me I'm wrong, but they work for me.

magicbastarder

bpmurray wrote: »

So my rules are:

• Take loads of pics, all the time, everywhere. and 10 or even 20 at a time - there's loads of room on that memory card and on your hard disk. I just checked - I have over 46000 photos on my PC, although I should definitely cull the rubbish.

i'd suggest the above approach is limited, and would counsel the opposite - slow down and think about every photo; 10 or 20 of the same scene doesn't allow you to stop and figure out how best to shoot, and it creates an awful lot of chaff to wade through when you're trying to decide what worked and what didn't.
i did learn to shoot with film, which necessitated the above approach, but i find photography far less rewarding if you're picking the best out of a huge number of shots; in the same way that you wouldn't consider yourself a good archer if two arrows out of 15 landed on target.

eoglyn

In the next 6-9 months follow these instructions and you'll be flying:

Shoot Raw.

Acquire and learn lightroom.

Shoot as often and as varied subject matter as you can.

Use the sh*t out of your 50mm - it will do for everything except sports, and you've got that covered with your 70-300.

Read Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson, once you have it read, read it again, then come back for another recommendation.

Share and discuss with other photographers, ask for C&C, either in real life, or on here, and take your family and friends' positive feedback with a pinch of salt, of course they will genuinely love your output, but you can do better, and other photographers will tell you how if you ask them.

Other than the above-mentioned book and software, don't buy any more gear, cameras, lenses, books, software, lights, courses. You might think you need it, you may read very convincing arguments why you do. You don't.

Oh, and avoid Ken Rockwell, he's full of bad advice and contradictions, google might love him as he is an SEO master but no one else does, I doubt if even his own carrot children care for him that much. Jared is marmite.

Alanstrainor

eoglyn wrote: »

Use the sh*t out of your 50mm - it will do for everything except sports, and you've got that covered with your 70-300.

I agree with most of your post, but maybe not so much this. The 50mm on a crop sensor is an awkward yoke really. I always found it very difficult to shoot as a walk around lens. A 30mm prime was a revelation however (Sigma 30mm F1.4).

eoglyn

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I agree with most of your post, but maybe not so much this. The 50mm on a crop sensor is an awkward yoke really. I always found it very difficult to shoot as a walk around lens. A 30mm prime was a revelation however (Sigma 30mm F1.4).

Its what the OP has, no point in recommending more gear before there is a good grounding.

Also 50mm is a killer length for portrait, perfect for learning about compression and depth of field.

FWIW i am using an 85mm on a full frame as my walk around these days, that is almost an equivalent focal length to the OP's 50mm. Yes it can be a little awkward, but it just makes you work harder.

Alanstrainor

eoglyn wrote: »

Its what the OP has, no point in recommending more gear before there is a good grounding.

Also 50mm is a killer length for portrait, perfect for learning about compression and depth of field.

FWIW i am using an 85mm on a full frame as my walk around these days, that is almost an equivalent focal length to the OP's 50mm. Yes it can be a little awkward, but it just makes you work harder.

True, it was more to say that it may not be as feasible to use as suggested! But portraits and similar of course.

The Black Oil

Thanks for all of the feedback. I know nothing of Lightroom and I can't remember where I heard of Rockwell, think it was through a search. Not making him a 'go to' guy.:P

I knew I had left out something re the 50mm. With sports, is this to say it would not be of much use say, behind a goalpost, just off to one side? Not talking about a big stadium, just a local pitch. Also, in general - is one of the things with the 50mm proximity to your subject? I didn't have it before Christmas and was in a small room in a relative's house for a few pics. Using it now I'd have to step back a bit further (fireplace would have made this impossible with 50mm, no issue with kit lens) or find a bigger room.

eoglyn

I have never shot sports, so i'm no expert. You'll get some shots of people or action that's relatively close to you with the 50mm, but if you want to pick up some play that's further away, you'll need the extra reach of your zoom lens. Probably best just to bring the zoom lens and work with it.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Using it now I'd have to step back a bit further (fireplace would have made this impossible with 50mm, no issue with kit lens) or find a bigger room.

This is why alanstrainer was saying that its not the ideal focal length on your camera - its a little long, and that can be hard sometimes in smaller spaces. But learn how to work it. Move your subjects to where you do have enough spaces for what you would like to do. The odd time you won't get the shot you want, but that's part of photography.

Alanstrainor

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks for all of the feedback. I know nothing of Lightroom and I can't remember where I heard of Rockwell, think it was through a search. Not making him a 'go to' guy.:P

I knew I had left out something re the 50mm. With sports, is this to say it would not be of much use say, behind a goalpost, just off to one side? Not talking about a big stadium, just a local pitch. Also, in general - is one of the things with the 50mm proximity to your subject? I didn't have it before Christmas and was in a small room in a relative's house for a few pics. Using it now I'd have to step back a bit further (fireplace would have made this impossible with 50mm, no issue with kit lens) or find a bigger room.

The advantage of the 50mm is not that it is 50mm....the advantage is that the aperture is F1.8 which means you end up with really nice depth of field. It is not a suitable sports lens really. The whole stepping back further was my issue with the 50mm too, but it does have serious advantages over the kit in terms of low light photography and depth of field.

eoglyn

The Black Oil wrote: »

I know nothing of Lightroom

You mentioned Jared Polin, he wears and sells t-shirts that say 'i shoot raw' - and that's his big message to beginners.

The reason you shoot raw is that you have a file with all of the information that the sensor can gather versus jpeg, where the camera's processor has made a whole load of decisions about how a photo should be exposed and discarded any extraneous information.

The advantage of jpeg is that is a smaller file size approx 2-6mb each.

A raw file, which can be 20mb and more, can be imported to adobe lightroom, where you have hundreds of sliders and controls that you can use to make small and large adjustments to entire images and to parts of each image. Now, instead of the camera making decisions about how an image looks, you, the photographer, are making those decisions.

Storage is cheap. And lightroom is relatively cheap.

You may not be ready or have time to learn to use lightroom fully yet. That's fine. You can take the images in raw and jpeg simultaneously now and then when you get lightroom you'll have a library waiting for you to practice on.

The Black Oil

I'll add that I'm not going to put much stock in Jared Polin et al. Youtube personalities are often just that. What's posted here on boards is more interesting and worth learning from.

Silva360

eoglyn wrote: »

Oh, and avoid Ken Rockwell, he's full of bad advice and contradictions, google might love him as he is an SEO master but no one else does, I doubt if even his own carrot children care for him that much. Jared is marmite.

I would say do read Ken Rockwell reviews and comparisons, but don't rely on his opinions alone Everyone has an opinion and they will always think theirs is best. Always read reviews from multiple sources. But for a pinch of salt resource, Rockwell is ok by me

Lyaiera

No-one has said this but it's so important to look at other people's photographs. On this forum, on other forums, on flickr, in galleries, in books, everywhere. You can learn so much from just looking at good photographer's pictures. It's very easy to fall into the pretty sunset, pretty flower, pretty child type of photography, and some people make a lot of money from it and get a lot of credit, but there's so much more to photography than that. And finding people who do more than that will show you what you can do.

sheesh

Don't forget to review your own pictures too! Try to remember what you are try to do when you took the picture, see where you got it right and where you got it wrong

Common Mistakes I used to make when I was
placement within the picture: yes I got the picture of the Castle but the Castle is in the middle when really it should be at the side

Time of day: I went out at midday and nothing looks good

I was on manual when I thought i was on aperture priority so the shutter was too slow.

My Focus was off. it my biggest bug bear! you think you have a good photograph, looks spot on in camera and you bring it home put it on a computer screen ans see it is not in focus of the shutter speed was too slow.

But as other said just go out and take loads of photos. Give a walk around and if you see something that might make a good photo take a picture.

Don't be afraid to take a bad photo you don't have to show it to any one!

AnCatDubh

All advice is good but take it as guidance rather than gospel (including this post).

Get it right in camera - BEST thing ever. Seriously. It can give you *years* of your life back.

Limit your use of RAW to when you may need to use RAW. Aim to take fewer but better photos.

In the first instance, photography is for you and no one else. Do you like what you are doing? If not then stop doing it and do something else.

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

In terms of technicalities - don't be afraid to ride your camera's ISO..... generally you'll learn this the hard way after about 5 years trying. yeah.... that.

Other than that, enjoy what you do.

D.S.

Good look with it OP. When the bug takes you, it is an amazing journey.

I started nearly 2 years ago now, and would still consider myself in the learner bracket..photography is a huge topic and that's part of what makes it fascinating for me - always more to learn.

A few tips from me:

- Learn how to take a good exposure (the technical) and at the same time, try to learn what makes a strong composition (agree with eoglyn - read Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson - it's a great read, would also recommend The Photographer's Eye by Michael Freeman for understanding composition - fantastic resource for getting ideas and trying different things). So many people get hung up on gear, and post processing, but a strong composition / story with magic lighting on lousy gear will always beat a weak composition on top notch gear with top notch post processing.

- Study / study / study. Study other people's images - look at both how the shot is composed and technically captured. Flickr / 500px is a great way to do this for free, though for me, you can't beat studying the masters and getting a few photobooks. Huge amount of resources on youtube / web where you can learn so much for free

- Shoot raw and be open to everything - i see a few posters slightly steering you away from Post Processing (PP) - for me, it's not to be overdone but it's a huge part of the process - every shot - whether on film , or digital - is post processed - wouldn't get hung up on it too early - focus on the basics - (as it is hugely time consuming) but I'd be open to it nonetheless when the time is right..i personally get a huge amount of pleasure from this aspect of the process.

- Take as many pictures as time will allow - shoot in different light, with different subjects, learn what styles you like and what times of day / lighting best suit your gear. Don't get frustrated - sometimes you will shoot a whole range of photos and get home and many (if not all) are not right, despite you thinking otherwise at the time..it's all part of the learning process as you find out what works and doesn't work for you. Do a few sunrise and sunset shoots as soon as you can. Sunrise - in particular - is just an amazing time of the day (when the sun's out)..

Rinse / Wash / Repeat!

Good luck with it.

D.S.

CabanSail

My 2c worth ...

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
3/ Think about what is in your frame and why it's there.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
5/ Find something you don't know how it's done and then do it.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
8/ Establish a good workflow and shoot for your workflow.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.
10/ Have FUN

Tiriel

CabanSail wrote: »

My 2c worth ...

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
3/ Think about what is in your frame and why it's there.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
5/ Find something you don't know how it's done and then do it.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
8/ Establish a good workflow and shoot for your workflow.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.
10/ Have FUN

This, but I'd throw in composition too. It makes a big difference when you see how a well composed shot compares to one where something is slightly cropped at the edge or too central in the frame etc.

Learn to control your highlights and your shadows, all boils down to exposure but getting things right by using the histogram in your camera.

Setting yourself projects - learning new tricks, but most importantly get out and shoot You learn nothing with your camera in a bag in the spare room. All the reading in the world is redundant if you don't go out and put it into practice.

Accept that you will always be learning

magicbastarder

AnCatDubh wrote: »

All advice is good but take it as guidance rather than gospel (including this post).

Get it right in camera - BEST thing ever. Seriously. It can give you *years* of your life back.

Limit your use of RAW to when you may need to use RAW. Aim to take fewer but better photos.

In the first instance, photography is for you and no one else. Do you like what you are doing? If not then stop doing it and do something else.

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

In terms of technicalities - don't be afraid to ride your camera's ISO..... generally you'll learn this the hard way after about 5 years trying. yeah.... that.

Other than that, enjoy what you do.

listen to this (wo)man.

mystic86

CabanSail wrote: »

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.

Do we get an explanation of what you mean? please

CabanSail

mystic86 wrote: »

Do we get an explanation of what you mean? please

Take time to understand how light acts and what happens when it moves through glass, filters, apertures and shutters. Then how that light reacts with the recording media. Learn how the various parameters are defined. Become familiar with these concepts so that you intuitively know how changing these settings will affect the image. This will help you get the best out of any camera you use.

mystic86

CabanSail wrote: »

Take time to understand how light acts and what happens when it moves through glass, filters, apertures and shutters. Then how that light reacts with the recording media. Learn how the various parameters are defined. Become familiar with these concepts so that you intuitively know how changing these settings will affect the image. This will help you get the best out of any camera you use.

ah ok I get you now, thanks. Just thought the way you had it worded made it sound unusual.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CabanSail wrote: »

My 2c worth ...
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
...

I regularly fail on this point. In fact, I have just splashed out on a new tripod and some Kenko extension tubes... Yikes.

Lyaiera

I think you actually covered a tip I really learned today in your opening post, "slow the eff down."

I was taking photos of Kent Station in Cork. It's private property so I asked the security guard first for permission and he told me to ask one of the guys in orange jackets, workers in the station. I saw someone in a suit uniform so figured that'd be a good person to ask. Turns out he was the station manager. I said it was non-commercial (which it is) and it's for building my portfolio (I'm thinking of applying to a year long course, so that's true as well.) He said taking a few photos was fine. I think he was worrying about me snapping away for ages and at an aggressive snap, snap pace, and getting myself into trouble. This made me really conscious of slowing down my demeanour and being as unobtrusive as possible (if I'm slow they might not notice me! :pac: )

Slowing down meant I took a lot less shots than I normally would: there were a lot of "nearlies" but far more nearlies than I would otherwise have. I'll have to go back when the weather suits them. And I have one shot I'm pretty pleased with.

Slowing down didn't just improve my photography, it also made me appreciate the building and setting far more. And that of course fed straight into the photography. Looking over my images I realise what a really nice place it is, something I would never have thought before. Slowing down gave me not only better photos, but also a real understanding of the wonder and charm of the train station. Slowing down made me appreciate what I was doing more, and that has now associated a relaxed and happy feeling for me with the station. And the feelings this gave me seems more important than the photos.

W0LFMAN

My 2 Cents

1/Don't shoot at the lowest F stop all the time. when you get some nice lenses like F2.8's and lower. your shots will become more out of focus due to the narrow Depth of Field.
2/Learn Photoshop/Lightroom or something for Post pictures work.
3/Its important to go deeper in the composition of a picture, than just the rule of thirds or the Line of Sight.
4/Your not doing proper photography, if you are waiting to buy better gear.
5/Be patience when someone is giving you advice, and be even more patience when giving it.
6/Expensive gear is a walking advertisement to get robbed.
7/Follow though and get it PRINTED.
8/Create flickr account.

CabanSail

On the subject of "Slow the Eff down" I see lots of people out shooting where they rattle off lots of frames with very little thought put into how they are shooting. I grew up using RAS* Cameras. Every time I pressed the shutter it cost me money. Being a poor student I was very careful to make each frame count. It became a habit which endured. When I got my first DSLR I was still being frugal with frames but soon realised there wasn't the cost penalty any more and I started to shoot a lot more frames. After a while it occurred to me that when I was reviewing shots that instead of having one poorly composed and exposed image I now had ten of them. Only one frame is required as long as it captures what you need. I think that people associate the stereotypical image of a pro-photographer of shooting images with a very high frame rate. This really only works in specific situations (sports, nature and paparazzi off the top of my head) but we have all seen some TV show where they have a Studio Shoot going on and they are taking frames at stupid speed, something that does not work as strobes take time to refresh.

tl/dr Taking time to think about a shot will get better results than shooting many frames.




*Replaceable Analogue Sensor

Lyaiera

I disagree with that. I don't disagree that every shot be considered and for a purpose but there is definite benefit to taking multiple shots with a little change in them each time. Whether you're looking to nail your verticals, you're looking for a particular placement from someone in the scene, you're making small adjustments to your exposure, etc. small differences can make or break a shot. This is especially true with most DSLRs where you are extremely limited by your viewfinder, especially if on a crop sensor body. As the image you see increases in size, so does the time you can and need to take, along with your ability to more see what the captured shot will look like.

challengemaster

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

<controversial>
I think as a learner, this is the worst piece of advice you can ever pay attention to.

Nobody is saying you have to spend 7 hours on every image and have a 300 layer composite in photoshop. Knowing how to on the other hand is invaluable. Post processing is as important if not more important than the actual photography side of things.</controversial>