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Child Item

Learner mistakes

The Black Oil

I thought I'd post this as I've a few questions I'd like to ask, or get a sense of what direction to head in.

Equipment: D50 with kit lens, and 70-300mm. Recent purchases: 50mm lens, sb700 flash and a tripod.
Status: n00b :pac:

To begin, what are some of the main mistakes that people make starting out in photography? For one, from looking and reading around, is to slow the eff down.

I've signed up to lynda.com and watched a good few tutorials on Youtube. For example, here and here. Also, Jared Polin. He seems like fun. Due to work and commitments I've not had a chance to go out and shoot much, really. I've only started to get into photography since January. I've not used auto since then, which is a step in the right direction, I guess. My interests would be in the outdoors, nature, landscape, etc.

There's a floodlit football match on tonight, I might head along to try and see what can be learned from that. Maybe I'm still too all over the place and should learn one aspect at a time, though.

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cortinaG

Some great advice here as usual.
My 2 cents worth would be to take plenty of shots, vary your setting but do it the same way each time, ie. shoot at 250 f8/ 125/f8 etc. until you decide which combination works best... for you!
what I have found just recently is your internal camera settings are very important, I now get a better image than on auto by changing the parameters, the main difference being increasing color tone.
Gear is nice but not important, my first camera was a zenith B and I reckon the pics I took with that are every bit as good as what I shoot today, (still very much an amateur).
I also see very little difference in shooting raw, I must be doing something wrong, playing with the exposure and RGB setting in the download program get me as good a result as editing a raw image.
As I say, just my opinion.

DaireQuinlan

challengemaster wrote: »

One thing that learners tend to get caught up with is using manual mode. Don't get me wrong, using manual is great for learners to get to terms with the camera and start getting creative. The problem arises where learners use manual mode for everything, even if it doesn't make sense to.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think i ever really used manual mode on a camera where aperture priority was available.

++ Aperture Priority with a dash of compensation where necessary is what I shoot 99% of the time when available. Only reason I'd switch to manual is in totally off the wall situations or when I'm shooting strobe so I can stick the shutter speed at some suitable value (normally at or just below the sync speed)

magicbastarder

i don't think i ever really used manual mode on a camera where aperture priority was available.

challengemaster

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else you can shoot within your limits and choose to shoot action where you know the ball/players will be moving more slowly. and turn your limitation into a benefit; if you can't eliminate motion blur, use it.

The joys of subjectivity within photography - some people can consider blur a benefit, others not so much. I know if I had a card full of blurry images I'd bin them.

The Black Oil wrote: »

I thought that before going along alright, that I'd need a 3 digit shutter, but I was a little messy in trying to apply it. Switching between the moments when the football action was slow and had more urgency. But yeah, as you suggest, even with a higher shutter, I don't think the 5.6 aperture could compensate (if that's the right word) accordingly.

One thing that learners tend to get caught up with is using manual mode. Don't get me wrong, using manual is great for learners to get to terms with the camera and start getting creative. The problem arises where learners use manual mode for everything, even if it doesn't make sense to.

If you're trying to take a "properly exposed" image, then your camera will always work out the settings quicker than you will. This is where shutter/aperture priority modes come into their own. So for sports, select shutter priority, set your desired shutter speed and the camera will figure out the aperture setting to compensate for a proper exposure. It's also very simple to adjust on the fly for a beginner

The Black Oil

challengemaster wrote: »

It's one of the areas as a beginner that gear will hold you back. F/5.6 and max iso 1600 is nowhere near good enough. Shutter speed wants to be much higher, and the only way you can get a proper exposure is with f/2.8 - 4 lenses and ISO3200/6400/12800/256000/etc

I thought that before going along alright, that I'd need a 3 digit shutter, but I was a little messy in trying to apply it. Switching between the moments when the football action was slow and had more urgency. But yeah, as you suggest, even with a higher shutter, I don't think the 5.6 aperture could compensate (if that's the right word) accordingly.

magicbastarder

challengemaster wrote: »

It's one of the areas as a beginner that gear will hold you back. F/5.6 and max iso 1600 is nowhere near good enough. Shutter speed wants to be much higher, and the only way you can get a proper exposure is with f/2.8 - 4 lenses and ISO3200/6400/12800/256000/etc

or else you can shoot within your limits and choose to shoot action where you know the ball/players will be moving more slowly. and turn your limitation into a benefit; if you can't eliminate motion blur, use it.
my introduction to sports photography was a night time rugby match, floodlit, using an OM4Ti with a 350mm tamron mirror lens, shooting delta 3200, so i only had one stop more than the black oil. i was happy enough with my results, for a first timer (even though i don't understand rugby) - especially as i only had one roll of 3200 left, so i was limited to 37 shots.

one of the shots i got; i'd have been happier if the ball wasn't obscured though, and i'd centred the action better vertically:

The Black Oil

Ah, that's handy.

challengemaster

The Black Oil wrote: »

Yeah, night time sports photography is a challenge...

I bumped up the iso to 1600, aperture at 5.6 most of the time, shutter 1/30 and played around with those two aspects a bit.

It's one of the areas as a beginner that gear will hold you back. F/5.6 and max iso 1600 is nowhere near good enough. Shutter speed wants to be much higher, and the only way you can get a proper exposure is with f/2.8 - 4 lenses and ISO3200/6400/12800/256000/etc

http://theplaystudio.com/inspiration/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/dslr-photography-guide-infographic1.jpg

Good infographic is always helpful IMO

The Black Oil

Yeah, night time sports photography is a challenge...

I bumped up the iso to 1600, aperture at 5.6 most of the time, shutter 1/30 and played around with those two aspects a bit. Probably took in the region of 200 shots, with I'd say 97% being blur central! Camera shake, lack of knowledge and skill. Very little in the way of jerseys in focus, never mind limbs or faces. I did tried to stay fairly measured, kept my feet grounded, not clicking away like a loon, and it's just good practice to even follow the ball/action through your lens, to get used to the motion.

There was some fairly salty language going from the players. :pac: Still, it was good to get out in the fresh air on a Friday night and I'll try it again.

Tiriel

Silva360 wrote: »

In the midday sun perhaps, but think of all the opportunities on an overcast or rainy day: woodlands, flowing water, macro, portrait, moody landscapes. Endless opportunities when the skies act as a great big soft box....

That's very true.

When I was starting out I was happy with landscapes I took with the sun in the shot,lovely light and blue sky/reflections etc. Now looking back on those shots I can see that the highlights are all blown out, the areas in shadow are just black and the shots are just simply taken at the wrong time of day when the light is too harsh for the shot I was taking. Sometimes that works, of course - but in general, softer light is much better, in all weather conditions.

Silva360

sheesh wrote: »

Time of day: I went out at midday and nothing looks good

In the midday sun perhaps, but think of all the opportunities on an overcast or rainy day: woodlands, flowing water, macro, portrait, moody landscapes. Endless opportunities when the skies act as a great big soft box....

The Black Oil

This weekend's plans fell through. Football match didn't materialise. Either cancelled or bad info. The place was dead, no floodlights to be seen. Will get it again. The second plan was to find some the chickens/hens that were around, but they were no longer accessible.

What's striking about the work posted on this forum is its visual form, which is a bit like cinematography and a little intimidating. I still have a lot of basics to figure out re ISO, F stops, etc. Re the course I did (I understand course skepticism), that basically moved us to P. My concern there is over dependence, i.e. using it as shortcut, then flipping to M adjusting to the suggested settings as indicated by P, taking the shot in M, but not learning the theory, if you get me. I still have a lot to do re - 'oh, it's a bit cloudy, light is in X position, therefore apply _____'. I understand some basics in my head, but application to particular set ups/scenes is lacking, thus far.

Post-processing doesn't interest me hugely beyond some cropping. Admittedly, PP must cover a lot of ground (or not?), though and I don't know this forum well enough to guess have a sense of what way some of ye use it.

Studying - I'm down with that, just have to get to it, like everything else. :pac: More than flowers and sunlight interests me, yep.

eoglyn wrote: »

Other than the above-mentioned book and software, don't buy any more gear, cameras, lenses, books, software, lights, courses. You might think you need it, you may read very convincing arguments why you do. You don't.

CabanSail wrote: »

7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.

W0LFMAN wrote: »

4/Your not doing proper photography, if you are waiting to buy better gear.

I tend not to buy on impulse, for the most part. Drooling about gear is OK in my book. I regularly read the Android and Apple forums on here for fun, but don't purchase often.

Anyway, I try to live by two adopted creeds on this subject. a) It's not the feature, it's the implementation and b) technology's an enabler, not a destination.

Thanks, everyone, for the welcome. :cool:

challengemaster

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

<controversial>
I think as a learner, this is the worst piece of advice you can ever pay attention to.

Nobody is saying you have to spend 7 hours on every image and have a 300 layer composite in photoshop. Knowing how to on the other hand is invaluable. Post processing is as important if not more important than the actual photography side of things.</controversial>

Lyaiera

I disagree with that. I don't disagree that every shot be considered and for a purpose but there is definite benefit to taking multiple shots with a little change in them each time. Whether you're looking to nail your verticals, you're looking for a particular placement from someone in the scene, you're making small adjustments to your exposure, etc. small differences can make or break a shot. This is especially true with most DSLRs where you are extremely limited by your viewfinder, especially if on a crop sensor body. As the image you see increases in size, so does the time you can and need to take, along with your ability to more see what the captured shot will look like.

CabanSail

On the subject of "Slow the Eff down" I see lots of people out shooting where they rattle off lots of frames with very little thought put into how they are shooting. I grew up using RAS* Cameras. Every time I pressed the shutter it cost me money. Being a poor student I was very careful to make each frame count. It became a habit which endured. When I got my first DSLR I was still being frugal with frames but soon realised there wasn't the cost penalty any more and I started to shoot a lot more frames. After a while it occurred to me that when I was reviewing shots that instead of having one poorly composed and exposed image I now had ten of them. Only one frame is required as long as it captures what you need. I think that people associate the stereotypical image of a pro-photographer of shooting images with a very high frame rate. This really only works in specific situations (sports, nature and paparazzi off the top of my head) but we have all seen some TV show where they have a Studio Shoot going on and they are taking frames at stupid speed, something that does not work as strobes take time to refresh.

tl/dr Taking time to think about a shot will get better results than shooting many frames.

*Replaceable Analogue Sensor

W0LFMAN

My 2 Cents

1/Don't shoot at the lowest F stop all the time. when you get some nice lenses like F2.8's and lower. your shots will become more out of focus due to the narrow Depth of Field.
2/Learn Photoshop/Lightroom or something for Post pictures work.
3/Its important to go deeper in the composition of a picture, than just the rule of thirds or the Line of Sight.
4/Your not doing proper photography, if you are waiting to buy better gear.
5/Be patience when someone is giving you advice, and be even more patience when giving it.
6/Expensive gear is a walking advertisement to get robbed.
7/Follow though and get it PRINTED.
8/Create flickr account.

Lyaiera

I think you actually covered a tip I really learned today in your opening post, "slow the eff down."

I was taking photos of Kent Station in Cork. It's private property so I asked the security guard first for permission and he told me to ask one of the guys in orange jackets, workers in the station. I saw someone in a suit uniform so figured that'd be a good person to ask. Turns out he was the station manager. I said it was non-commercial (which it is) and it's for building my portfolio (I'm thinking of applying to a year long course, so that's true as well.) He said taking a few photos was fine. I think he was worrying about me snapping away for ages and at an aggressive snap, snap pace, and getting myself into trouble. This made me really conscious of slowing down my demeanour and being as unobtrusive as possible (if I'm slow they might not notice me! :pac: )

Slowing down meant I took a lot less shots than I normally would: there were a lot of "nearlies" but far more nearlies than I would otherwise have. I'll have to go back when the weather suits them. And I have one shot I'm pretty pleased with.

Slowing down didn't just improve my photography, it also made me appreciate the building and setting far more. And that of course fed straight into the photography. Looking over my images I realise what a really nice place it is, something I would never have thought before. Slowing down gave me not only better photos, but also a real understanding of the wonder and charm of the train station. Slowing down made me appreciate what I was doing more, and that has now associated a relaxed and happy feeling for me with the station. And the feelings this gave me seems more important than the photos.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CabanSail wrote: »

My 2c worth ...
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
...

I regularly fail on this point. In fact, I have just splashed out on a new tripod and some Kenko extension tubes... Yikes.

mystic86

CabanSail wrote: »

Take time to understand how light acts and what happens when it moves through glass, filters, apertures and shutters. Then how that light reacts with the recording media. Learn how the various parameters are defined. Become familiar with these concepts so that you intuitively know how changing these settings will affect the image. This will help you get the best out of any camera you use.

ah ok I get you now, thanks. Just thought the way you had it worded made it sound unusual.

CabanSail

mystic86 wrote: »

Do we get an explanation of what you mean? please

Take time to understand how light acts and what happens when it moves through glass, filters, apertures and shutters. Then how that light reacts with the recording media. Learn how the various parameters are defined. Become familiar with these concepts so that you intuitively know how changing these settings will affect the image. This will help you get the best out of any camera you use.

mystic86

CabanSail wrote: »

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.

Do we get an explanation of what you mean? please

magicbastarder

AnCatDubh wrote: »

All advice is good but take it as guidance rather than gospel (including this post).

Get it right in camera - BEST thing ever. Seriously. It can give you *years* of your life back.

Limit your use of RAW to when you may need to use RAW. Aim to take fewer but better photos.

In the first instance, photography is for you and no one else. Do you like what you are doing? If not then stop doing it and do something else.

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

In terms of technicalities - don't be afraid to ride your camera's ISO..... generally you'll learn this the hard way after about 5 years trying. yeah.... that.

Other than that, enjoy what you do.

listen to this (wo)man.

Tiriel

CabanSail wrote: »

My 2c worth ...

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
3/ Think about what is in your frame and why it's there.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
5/ Find something you don't know how it's done and then do it.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
8/ Establish a good workflow and shoot for your workflow.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.
10/ Have FUN

This, but I'd throw in composition too. It makes a big difference when you see how a well composed shot compares to one where something is slightly cropped at the edge or too central in the frame etc.

Learn to control your highlights and your shadows, all boils down to exposure but getting things right by using the histogram in your camera.

Setting yourself projects - learning new tricks, but most importantly get out and shoot

You learn nothing with your camera in a bag in the spare room. All the reading in the world is redundant if you don't go out and put it into practice.

Accept that you will always be learning

CabanSail

My 2c worth ...

1/ Learn about exposure and optics.
2/ Learn about exposure and optics.
3/ Think about what is in your frame and why it's there.
4/ Learn about exposure and optics.
5/ Find something you don't know how it's done and then do it.
6/ Learn about exposure and optics.
7/ Don't get obsessed by Gear.
8/ Establish a good workflow and shoot for your workflow.
9/ Learn about exposure and optics.
10/ Have FUN

D.S.

Good look with it OP. When the bug takes you, it is an amazing journey.

I started nearly 2 years ago now, and would still consider myself in the learner bracket..photography is a huge topic and that's part of what makes it fascinating for me - always more to learn.

A few tips from me:

- Learn how to take a good exposure (the technical) and at the same time, try to learn what makes a strong composition (agree with eoglyn - read Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson - it's a great read, would also recommend The Photographer's Eye by Michael Freeman for understanding composition - fantastic resource for getting ideas and trying different things). So many people get hung up on gear, and post processing, but a strong composition / story with magic lighting on lousy gear will always beat a weak composition on top notch gear with top notch post processing.

- Study / study / study. Study other people's images - look at both how the shot is composed and technically captured. Flickr / 500px is a great way to do this for free, though for me, you can't beat studying the masters and getting a few photobooks. Huge amount of resources on youtube / web where you can learn so much for free

- Shoot raw and be open to everything - i see a few posters slightly steering you away from Post Processing (PP) - for me, it's not to be overdone but it's a huge part of the process - every shot - whether on film , or digital - is post processed - wouldn't get hung up on it too early - focus on the basics - (as it is hugely time consuming) but I'd be open to it nonetheless when the time is right..i personally get a huge amount of pleasure from this aspect of the process.

- Take as many pictures as time will allow - shoot in different light, with different subjects, learn what styles you like and what times of day / lighting best suit your gear. Don't get frustrated - sometimes you will shoot a whole range of photos and get home and many (if not all) are not right, despite you thinking otherwise at the time..it's all part of the learning process as you find out what works and doesn't work for you. Do a few sunrise and sunset shoots as soon as you can. Sunrise - in particular - is just an amazing time of the day (when the sun's out)..

Rinse / Wash / Repeat!

Good luck with it.

D.S.

AnCatDubh

All advice is good but take it as guidance rather than gospel (including this post).

Get it right in camera - BEST thing ever. Seriously. It can give you *years* of your life back.

Limit your use of RAW to when you may need to use RAW. Aim to take fewer but better photos.

In the first instance, photography is for you and no one else. Do you like what you are doing? If not then stop doing it and do something else.

Don't waste your time with postprocessing unless you have time to waste or are a graphic designer or have aspirations to be one.

In terms of technicalities - don't be afraid to ride your camera's ISO..... generally you'll learn this the hard way after about 5 years trying. yeah.... that.

Other than that, enjoy what you do.

sheesh

Don't forget to review your own pictures too! Try to remember what you are try to do when you took the picture, see where you got it right and where you got it wrong

Common Mistakes I used to make when I was
placement within the picture: yes I got the picture of the Castle but the Castle is in the middle when really it should be at the side

Time of day: I went out at midday and nothing looks good

I was on manual when I thought i was on aperture priority so the shutter was too slow.

My Focus was off. it my biggest bug bear! you think you have a good photograph, looks spot on in camera and you bring it home put it on a computer screen ans see it is not in focus of the shutter speed was too slow.

But as other said just go out and take loads of photos. Give a walk around and if you see something that might make a good photo take a picture.

Don't be afraid to take a bad photo you don't have to show it to any one!

Lyaiera

No-one has said this but it's so important to look at other people's photographs. On this forum, on other forums, on flickr, in galleries, in books, everywhere. You can learn so much from just looking at good photographer's pictures. It's very easy to fall into the pretty sunset, pretty flower, pretty child type of photography, and some people make a lot of money from it and get a lot of credit, but there's so much more to photography than that. And finding people who do more than that will show you what you can do.

Silva360

eoglyn wrote: »

Oh, and avoid Ken Rockwell, he's full of bad advice and contradictions, google might love him as he is an SEO master but no one else does, I doubt if even his own carrot children care for him that much. Jared is marmite.

I would say do read Ken Rockwell reviews and comparisons, but don't rely on his opinions alone

Everyone has an opinion and they will always think theirs is best. Always read reviews from multiple sources. But for a pinch of salt resource, Rockwell is ok by me

The Black Oil

I'll add that I'm not going to put much stock in Jared Polin et al. Youtube personalities are often just that. What's posted here on boards is more interesting and worth learning from.