Delhi rapist says victim shouldn't have fought back

Smiles35

Larbre34 wrote: »

Worlds largest democracy? Worlds largest hellmouth more like, and competition for that spot is pretty fierce at the moment.

:pac: Hellmouth? Burning of hell wasnt good enough. So a big Jaws mouth aswell.:pac:

Egginacup

whatdoicare wrote: »

Not defending these scumbags but people here have very short memories, wasn't even a generation ago that Irish people pretty much thought the same way.
Women who were raped were blamed and fecked into prison laundries with a life sentence and their baby sold off, wives couldn't be raped by their husbands, single mothers were shamed by their community, women were subjected to sympysiotomies lest a csection prevent them from having unlimited amounts of children, babies and mothers died from neglect and were thrown into a purpose made concrete disposal room rather than bury them properly (Tuam).
Even today rapists get a slap on the hand and its not taken that seriously by the courts. I don't think we're in any position to judge.

Didn't nuns throw babies into septic tanks? Wouldn't even bury the little things. You've gotta be a cold-hearted bastard to do that. The animal in this article is obviously the scum of the earth but there are vermin who think like him everywhere.

Littlekittylou

Nodin wrote: »

A lot of what goes on is illegal though, the problem is lack of enforcement.

Judges have a lot more discretion in India. 15% of rape trials are never even concluded. They are just frittered out by the system. There is law and there is de facto law.

Baggy Trousers

whatdoicare wrote: »

Not defending these scumbags but people here have very short memories, wasn't even a generation ago that Irish people pretty much thought the same way.
Women who were raped were blamed and fecked into prison laundries with a life sentence and their baby sold off, wives couldn't be raped by their husbands, single mothers were shamed by their community, women were subjected to sympysiotomies lest a csection prevent them from having unlimited amounts of children, babies and mothers died from neglect and were thrown into a purpose made concrete disposal room rather than bury them properly (Tuam).
Even today rapists get a slap on the hand and its not taken that seriously by the courts. I don't think we're in any position to judge.

I agree with a lot of above and I can only hope that India will sort itself out with regards to treatment of women within a generation or two.

Iwasfrozen

qt3.14 wrote: »

I don't know why people are surprised. The only difference between the west and south east asia is that our sociopaths are better trained. Still, some of them still break out of the societal conditioning. I bet if you could sit Larry Murphy down and get an honest answer out of him he'd say something rather similar.

I'm no fan but I highly doubt it.

Baby Jane

whatdoicare wrote: »

Not defending these scumbags but people here have very short memories, wasn't even a generation ago that Irish people pretty much thought the same way.
Women who were raped were blamed and fecked into prison laundries with a life sentence and their baby sold off, wives couldn't be raped by their husbands, single mothers were shamed by their community, women were subjected to sympysiotomies lest a csection prevent them from having unlimited amounts of children, babies and mothers died from neglect and were thrown into a purpose made concrete disposal room rather than bury them properly (Tuam).
Even today rapists get a slap on the hand and its not taken that seriously by the courts. I don't think we're in any position to judge.

I think the only people who aren't in any position to judge, are fellow rapists and fellow people with similar views on females/rape.
I don't understand how, just because we here in Ireland were born in the same country as the horrors you listed, are in no position to judge in relation to the societies in which the views listed in the opening post can thrive.
How can merely being born somewhere mean that? Particularly when most of us were born long after those systems were discontinued and when people were starting to question the attitudes that came from them.

Most of the victims of the terrible things which went on in Ireland were Irish people, they can hardly hold this strange accountability thing some people believe people hold just because of being born somewhere. And seeing as the attitudes you list were towards women, how the heck can women not judge?!

As was said, criticising the culture in this regard in India does not mean turning a blind eye to what went on in Ireland - both can be criticised simultaneously. I have certainly drawn parallels between the Taliban system of girls/women in Pakistan being sent to prison for being raped, to girls in this country being sent to laundries due to being raped - not even 50 years ago. But I certainly don't feel I shouldn't be as critical of the Taliban just because of what happened in my own country long long before I was born. That's a strange logic.

Where I would agree with you however is in not making a blanket criticism of India. It's inconceivably massive, a sub-continent, with a myriad of different societies. A rotten attitude towards females is prevalent in some of them, but not in others. Even within such societies where this attitude is an issue, it's illogical to tar them all with the one brush - what about the victims?
This is why I don't understand "Why are we sending aid there?" too - again, what about the dreadfully poor and powerless victims? They surely deserve a little help.

midlandsmissus

bjork wrote: »

Yeah and someone else is crapping on about Ireland Laundries and you're crapping on about me


People can move from India to Ireland, bringing with them 'elements and attitudes of their culture which may not be welcome.

Unless you're suggesting we put a big fence around India to keep them there ?:eek:

"These people can bring elements and attitudes of their culture which may not be welcome".

You have your head in the sand my friend. Sexual atrocities and injustices are committed against women worldwide, including Ireland. The world as it stands is not a safe place to be a woman. There is great gender imbalance in the world, and it will take much fighting yet on women's behalf for it to rise to a level of equailty.

Rape/ Sexual Assault is listed as one of the most severely traumatic things that can happen to an individual, and yet it happens to far more women than you would care to imagine. It has happened to me, and many women I know in Ireland. And the majority of women feel unable to press charges, due to the vastly unfair re-traumatising way rape cases are treated by courts including Irish courts. There is also the prevailing attitude in Ireland in small towns to discredit the female and tarnish her name, and protect the male. If a man walking down the street was attacked and raped, would people say it was his fault because of the clothes he was wearing? Or would they see it as a very grievously serious crime that had no right to happen to this person.

So why when a woman is sexually assaulted is there so much gesturing about her behaviour, what she was wearing, her previously sexual activity?

Why? Because there is still great inequality in the world, and women are just expected to get on with it. It will take the majority of women to stand as a mass, and keep fighting for the cause that we are worth more than this, that will ignite change.

bjork

midlandsmissus wrote: »

".................................

So why when a woman is sexually assaulted is there so much gesturing about her behaviour, what she was wearing, her previously sexual activity?

Why? Because there is still great inequality in the world, and women are just expected to get on with it. It will take the majority of women to stand as a mass, and keep fighting for the cause that we are worth more than this, that will ignite change.

This is totally missing the point and is not what I said, but keep ranting there :rolleyes:

prizefighter

Nodin wrote: »

So rapists in India = excuse for xenophobia? Great stuff. They already check for criminal convictions, which is all you should be worried about.

Except as has been established, the vast majority of these rapes aren't seen as Crimes and thus no record would be made.

midlandsmissus

bjork wrote: »

This is totally missing the point and is not what I said, but keep ranting there :rolleyes:

Calling a woman who is trying to help inequality against her gender in the world 'ranting' is patronising and misinformed.

The part of my post that was relevant to you was as follows:

You said: 'these people can bring elements and attitudes of their culture which is not welcome',

I am trying to get you to see that these things go on worldwide, not just in India, they go on very much in Ireland as well. People just like to turn a blind eye to what goes on closer to home, 'we couldn't be capable of doing that etc.'

bjork

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Calling a woman who is trying to help inequality against her gender in the world 'ranting' is patronising and misinformed.

The part of my post that was relevant to you was as follows:

You said: 'these people can bring elements and attitudes of their culture which is not welcome',

I am trying to get you to see that these things go on worldwide, not just in India, they go on very much in Ireland as well. People just like to turn a blind eye to what goes on closer to home, 'we couldn't be capable of doing that etc.'

So we should import more of them?? Because I'm saying we shouldn't, but you seem to be saying because we have some, we should let in more??

Darkglasses

bjork wrote: »

So we should import more of them?? Because I'm saying we shouldn't, but you seem to be saying because we have some, we should let in more??

Did she say even one word about immigration? That's the word, by the way, not import.

bjork

Darkglasses wrote: »

Did she say even one word about immigration? That's the word, by the way, not import.

Yes you are correct. The qurestion should have been : Should we immigration more of them?

Darkglasses

bjork wrote: »

Yes you are correct. The qurestion should have been : Should we immigration more of them?

I saw your pre-edit, fair enough, didn't realise you were referring to attitudes rather than people.

robinph

Indian home office minister completely misses the point of the film.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-31724516

The have much bigger issues to deal with than why a film company was allowed to interview someone on death row.

Giggsy11

robinph wrote: »

Indian home office minister completely misses the point of the film.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-31724516

The have much bigger issues to deal with than why a film company was allowed to interview someone on death row.

I made a post on Indian media yesterday when they were all worried about documentary being aired and how foreign reported could get access to prisoner in a high security prison rather than concentrating on the interview and how ****ed up his views are.

Main culprits (Times Now news channel) went on a rant for whole day for the interview because they believed BBC and NDTV (Indian news channel) provided platform for a rapist to air his view and blame the girl.

Media is so much occupied with TRP rating and all that ****, politicians are worried about how much controversy or issue this documentary might create and not ready to face it.

Now apparently person who was in charge of the prison will be investigated for why the journalist was allowed to meet the rapist.

One ****ed up mentality we have here in India.

conorhal

The Guardian has a pretty frightening article on the report about the failings of the authorites to address reported rapes that mirrors that of Rochdale. It makes the authorities in Oxfordshire sound no different to a Dehli rapist:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/03/professionals-blamed-oxfordshire-girls-for-their-sexual-abuse-report-finds

The report said key failings by police and social workersincluded:

A culture of denial.
Blaming the girls for their precocious and difficult behaviour.
Blaming the girls for putting themselves at risk of harm.
Tolerance of underage sexual activity by the girls with older men.
A failure to recognise the girls had been groomed and violently controlled.

Just a little Samba

I've said before in other threads that I live and work in South Asia for a decent chunk of the year.
I've talked about the caste system and how it influences everything here and the problems that causes in relation to human rights.
Stuff like bonded labour, gender equality and so on.

What I haven't talked about is the fact that I actually work in the Human Rights field. I am currently working in the area of gender equality and the caste system, specifically focusing on honour killings and how the Khap Panchayat system deals with sexual crimes against women.

Everyday as part of my work I come across dozens of cases of young men and women being burned or hanged or beaten to death in so called "honour" killings.
I hear about women being forced to marry their rapists or the rapists sisters/mothers/wives/daugters being raped by the family of the initial victim or even girls being murdered by their own famalies because their behaviour (wearing certain clothes, being friendly with boys, walking around by themselves) was seen to have been the cause of them being raped and this causing the families honour to be damaged.

I've met with and talked to girls who have had to escape arranged marriages to men 2 or 3 times their own age or have been forced to run away from their home state and constantly fear for their lives because they decided to marry someone they love rather than someone from their own caste.

It's heartbreaking and sickening.

All that being said. I have also witnessed the other side of India and the other side of Indian culture.

There's a saying in India that "in India you can experience the best and the worst of humanity" and it's true.

Most of the people here are warm, compassionate, loving, open and genuinely hopeful for change.
India now has the youngest population in the world and for the first time in modern history those young people have access to education and the outside world. Most young people are against castism, against religious governance and against corruption.

The recent landslide election victory of the AAP (anti-corruption party with massive youth support) in the Delhi local assembly isn't a fluke, India's young people are sick to the back teeth of how their government is being run and how they are told to live their lives based on their caste or their economic circumstances and they are getting involved in political activities to force change.

Honour killings and rape regular in India, but regular does not mean common or accepted. In a country so massive, that has so many people lots of things happen regularly.

There are an estimated 5,000 honour killings annually world wipe, and about a 5th of them happen in India, a country which strangely enough has just under a 5th of the worlds population.

Rape as well isn't massively different in instances per 100,000 people when compared to the UK or US, there are approximately 2 cases per 100,000 people per year which are reported to police, compared with 26 in the US and 25 in the UK.

Now we know that the majority or rape is unreported, not just in India, but world wide. In the UK it's estimated that between 75-90% of rape cases are not reported to police, in India the estimate varies from 54% at the lower end to 90% at the higher end. Which corresponds pretty well with the UK and US figures.

So if we adjust the reported 2 per 100,000 figure of India to include the highest end estimate of 90% of cases being unreported, we can adjust that number to roughly 20 cases per 100,000 per year and you STILL have estimated figures which are lower than the reportedUK and US numbers.

People in this thread have said things like "it's accepted" in India. bollocks it is.

The 2012 Delhi bus rape caused the city to be shut down for almost a week because of protests, and similar protests took place in Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Cochin,Kolkata, Hyderabad and other cities around the country, so no, it's not accepted and it's not considered normal.

Is rape and sexual violence against women in India a problem, yes, and it's horrible, like I said I work in this specific area, but is it any less common in Europe, feck no.

India just happens to have almost 20% of the worlds population and as such has a massive net number of instances per year. Gang rape as well is no more common in India than it is in the US or UK.
In the US 25% of all rape cases are estimated to be gangrapes but have you ever wondered why you don't hear about it?

Rape and sexual violence against women isn't an India problem or a caste system problem, it's a human problem which affects women on every continent on the planet, even in the "enlightened" west, so can we all stop pretending this is a problem for "them" over "there" and accept that it's a problem for humanity everywhere and stop taring a nation of 1.25 billion people as some sort of backward race of woman hating monsters just waiting to pounce on the next victim and accept that women everywhere are being denied human rights and being dehumanised by patriarchal systems which oppress and disempower them?

Yeah?

Cheers.


p.s. excuse spelling or grammar mistakes, I don't have time to format or proof read right now.

BD45

Jesus Christ it sounds like the dark ages over there.

AlanS181824

I am totally against the death penalty in every situation but regardless of that these people are totally sick.

I wonder would they have the same attitude if they were the ones raped.

Barbaric animals.

BD45

And we don't hear about gang rape in the US because the perpetrators are usually black or Latinos. Highlighting the crimes committed by non-whites (often on whites) is a big no-no for the media.

Did you hear about porn star Cythera who was gang raped by three blacks in her home?Didn't think so. Where's the feminist outrage? the 'slut walks'? Of course if a blond haired blue-eyed college boy gets (falsely) accused of rape, we'll never hear the end of.

chopperbyrne

BD45 wrote: »

And we don't hear about gang rape in the US because the perpetrators are usually black or Latinos. Highlighting the crimes committed by non-whites (often on whites) is a big no-no for the media.

Did you hear about porn star Cythera who was gang raped by three blacks in her home?Didn't think so. Where's the feminist outrage? the 'slut walks'? Of course if a blond haired blue-eyed college boy gets (falsely) accused of rape, we'll never hear the end of.

Nice racist rant there

Baby Jane

BD45 wrote: »

And we don't hear about gang rape in the US because the perpetrators are usually black or Latinos. Highlighting the crimes committed by non-whites (often on whites) is a big no-no for the media.

Did you hear about porn star Cythera who was gang raped by three blacks in her home?Didn't think so. Where's the feminist outrage? the 'slut walks'? Of course if a blond haired blue-eyed college boy gets (falsely) accused of rape, we'll never hear the end of.

Why do you say "Didn't think so" without waiting for an answer to your question about Cythera?

pl4ichjgy17zwd

BD45 wrote: »

Did you hear about porn star Cythera who was gang raped by three blacks in her home?Didn't think so. Where's the feminist outrage?

I did, actually. Funnily enough, in a feminist group.

Karl Stein

The sound of axes grinding in this thread is deafening.

Nodin

Karl Stein wrote: »

The sound of axes grinding in this thread is deafening.

Sorry, what was that? The racket out of the Agenda trucks pulling up is feckin ferocious.

BD45

Kinley Few Cub wrote: »

I did, actually. Funnily enough, in a feminist group.

And yet noting on Jezebel, Xojane, Huffington Post, Guerrilla Feminism or the Guardian.

Same as the English girls abused by Pakistani immigrants. The liberal feminist media does not care about white working class rape victims.

Precious flower

Littlekittylou wrote: »

The people who have traveled and can afford to be educated. I have noticed that changes everything in every country.

Not to argue with you but just because someone is educated doesn't mind they can't have seriously perverse attitudes towards women or be a rapist. That Japanese girl that was gang raped in India recently reported that her attackers spoke fluent Japanese. I'm sure cases of rape might be more prevalent with poorer communities but people of educated status are often involved in the gang rape or rape of lower class women or tourists. Also, that story about the husband who raped his wife's rapist's sister is so disturbing. How anyone can consider that justice is insane. The women seemed to be always the victims no matter if it was the male in the family who committed the crime. The poor girl. However, I deplore the attitude of tarnishing an entire country for the actions of a minority of sick minded individuals.

Baby Jane

The Guardian has numerous articles about the Rotherham scandal. It's also a champion of the working-class.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/27/guardian-view-rotherham-child-abuse-scandal

I would agree white hetero men are deemed the most fair game for criticism without any repercussions, but it's inaccurate to say there is never recognition by the left-wing media of wrongdoings by those who aren't white hetero men.

Precious flower wrote: »

that story about the husband who raped his wife's rapist's sister is so disturbing. How anyone can consider that justice is insane.

Crikey! :eek:

positron

Just a little Samba wrote: »

I've said before in other threads that I live and work in South Asia for a decent chunk of the year.
I've talked about the caste system and how it influences everything here and the problems that causes in relation to human rights.
Stuff like bonded labour, gender equality and so on.

What I haven't talked about is the fact that I actually work in the Human Rights field. I am currently working in the area of gender equality and the caste system, specifically focusing on honour killings and how the Khap Panchayat system deals with sexual crimes against women.

Everyday as part of my work I come across dozens of cases of young men and women being burned or hanged or beaten to death in so called "honour" killings.
I hear about women being forced to marry their rapists or the rapists sisters/mothers/wives/daugters being raped by the family of the initial victim or even girls being murdered by their own famalies because their behaviour (wearing certain clothes, being friendly with boys, walking around by themselves) was seen to have been the cause of them being raped and this causing the families honour to be damaged.

I've met with and talked to girls who have had to escape arranged marriages to men 2 or 3 times their own age or have been forced to run away from their home state and constantly fear for their lives because they decided to marry someone they love rather than someone from their own caste.

It's heartbreaking and sickening.

All that being said. I have also witnessed the other side of India and the other side of Indian culture.

There's a saying in India that "in India you can experience the best and the worst of humanity" and it's true.

Most of the people here are warm, compassionate, loving, open and genuinely hopeful for change.
India now has the youngest population in the world and for the first time in modern history those young people have access to education and the outside world. Most young people are against castism, against religious governance and against corruption.

The recent landslide election victory of the AAP (anti-corruption party with massive youth support) in the Delhi local assembly isn't a fluke, India's young people are sick to the back teeth of how their government is being run and how they are told to live their lives based on their caste or their economic circumstances and they are getting involved in political activities to force change.

Honour killings and rape regular in India, but regular does not mean common or accepted. In a country so massive, that has so many people lots of things happen regularly.

There are an estimated 5,000 honour killings annually world wipe, and about a 5th of them happen in India, a country which strangely enough has just under a 5th of the worlds population.

Rape as well isn't massively different in instances per 1000 people when compared to the UK or US, there are approximately 2 cases per 1000 people per year which are reported to police, compared with 26 in the US and 25 in the UK.

Now we know that the majority or rape is unreported, not just in India, but world wide. In the UK it's estimated that between 75-90% of rape cases are not reported to police, in India the estimate varies from 54% at the lower end to 90% at the higher end. Which corresponds pretty well with the UK and US figures.

So if we adjust the reported 2 per 1000 figure of India to include the highest end estimate of 90% of cases being unreported, we can adjust that number to roughly 20 cases per 1000 per year and you STILL have estimated figures which are lower than the reportedUK and US numbers.

People in this thread have said things like "it's accepted" in India. bollocks it is.

The 2012 Delhi bus rape caused the city to be shut down for almost a week because of protests, and similar protests took place in Mumbai, Chennai, Bangalore, Cochin,Kolkata, Hyderabad and other cities around the country, so no, it's not accepted and it's not considered normal.

Is rape and sexual violence against women in India a problem, yes, and it's horrible, like I said I work in this specific area, but is it any less common in Europe, feck no.

India just happens to have almost 20% of the worlds population and as such has a massive net number of instances per year. Gang rape as well is no more common in India than it is in the US or UK.
In the US 25% of all rape cases are estimated to be gangrapes but have you ever wondered why you don't hear about it?

Rape and sexual violence against women isn't an India problem or a caste system problem, it's a human problem which affects women on every continent on the planet, even in the "enlightened" west, so can we all stop pretending this is a problem for "them" over "there" and accept that it's a problem for humanity everywhere and stop taring a nation of 1.25 billion people as some sort of backward race of woman hating monsters just waiting to pounce on the next victim and accept that women everywhere are being denied human rights and being dehumanised by patriarchal systems which oppress and disempower them?

Yeah?

Cheers.


p.s. excuse spelling or grammar mistakes, I don't have time to format or proof read right now.

Excellent post. Thank you!