Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

kevinandrew

I don't think anybody is expecting A380 operations to commence tomorrow! The airport isn't ready yet but that doesn't mean it can't be or that plans aren't in place to make it happen, we already know about the stand and the limitations so it's now up the DAA to make it work.

Willie Walsh has already stated twice that he see's potential for more A380s within the IAG group, most would be for BA but that a sub-fleet of 2-3 could work at EI/IB during peak seasons. If that becomes a reality, DUB will have to be ready and they'd be wise to ensure the airport is ready within a realistic timeframe.

So many see opportunities like this as pie in the sky and it's a problem that plagues Ireland, a can't cope so won't cope attitude. Build it and they will come.

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

I don't think anybody is expecting A380 operations to commence tomorrow! The airport isn't ready yet but that doesn't mean it can't be or that plans aren't in place to make it happen, we already know about the stand and the limitations so it's now up the DAA to make it work.

Willie Walsh has already stated twice that he see's potential for more A380s within the IAG group, most would be for BA but that a sub-fleet of 2-3 could work at EI/IB during peak seasons. If that becomes a reality, DUB will have to be ready and they'd be wise to ensure the airport is ready within a realistic timeframe.

So many see opportunities like this as pie in the sky and it's a problem that plagues Ireland, a can't cope so won't cope attitude. Build it and they will come.

Fine but why would IAG give them to EI during peak and not use them at LHR with BA. Would be strange to give them to BA but take them from them at peak time, what would fill their schedule?

kevinandrew

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Fine but why would IAG give them to EI during peak and not use them at LHR with BA. Would be strange to give them to BA but take them from them at peak time, what would fill their schedule?

Willie Walsh has never indicated they'd be taken from BA at any time, he said a case could be made for both Iberia and Aer Lingus in a future order and IAG are actively looking for cheaper A380s so any A380 to EI would come from a new order, they'd be dedicated to EI/IB rather than taken from the current BA fleet.

With a common specification in place it would be easy to move a certain pool of A380s around the IAG fleet depending on demand, IB in the winter and EI in the summer for example.

J.pilkington

kevinandrew wrote: »

Willie Walsh has never indicated they'd be taken from BA at any time, he said a case could be made for both Iberia and Aer Lingus in a future order and IAG are actively looking for cheaper A380s so any A380 to EI would come from a new order, they'd be dedicated to EI/IB rather than taken from the current BA fleet.

With a common specification in place it would be easy to move a certain pool of A380s around the IAG fleet depending on demand, IB in the winter and EI in the summer for example.

I don't think easy would be the correct word! It would be easy to move an a330 between aer lingus and Iberia but certainly not an a380 which neither operate (pilots, cabin crew, gate crew, bookings, catering, flexibility with gates etc etc)

kevinandrew

J.pilkington wrote: »

Crews from IB and EI would be trained in the event of an order specifically for either airline, that's what Walsh indicated when he said a case could be made for both. It certainly wouldn't be a last minute change to respond to demand, it would be long term fleet planning

Looking at it purely on a fleet basis, the future IAG fleet will be considered as one rather than individual airlines and that's how they'll be planning new orders.

Tenger

kevinandrew wrote: »

.....
Looking at it purely on a fleet basis, the future IAG fleet will be considered as one rather than individual airlines and that's how they'll be planning new orders.

Precisely this....look at the recent press release about the 2 x A330 being delivered in 2017. They are IAG aircraft being painted in green and white livery. Im sure if the business case called for it IAG would have painted them in white/red/orange instead.
The suggestion from WW was to have a IAG fleet of 3-5 second hand A380 (cheaply bought) which could be operated by EI and IB as needed by either carrier in addition to the core BA A380 fleet. This could use the existing BA logistics base to support it.
IAG statements already show a plan to have standardisation of equipment and Y class seats across A320/A330/A350 fleets going forward.

duskyjoe

I still think your all dreaming re an A380 operating ex EIDW in the near or distant future. Time will tell. Brilliant post by Irish Steve......great info

Van.Bosch

Tenger wrote: »

Precisely this....look at the recent press release about the 2 x A330 being delivered in 2017. They are IAG aircraft being painted in green and white livery. Im sure if the business case called for it IAG would have painted them in white/red/orange instead.
The suggestion from WW was to have a IAG fleet of 3-5 second hand A380 (cheaply bought) which could be operated by EI and IB as needed by either carrier in addition to the core BA A380 fleet. This could use the existing BA logistics base to support it.
IAG statements already show a plan to have standardisation of equipment and Y class seats across A320/A330/A350 fleets going forward.

The standardisation is agreed for 320/330 with 350 to come this November. My understanding is that the galleys, equipment and seat design will be standardised but each airline can choose their mix between economy and business. Is that your understanding or will they share the same configure too? I have been confused reading it but I did see that they can be changed rapidly which I think means diff configs, which I think would make more sense.

Tenger

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The standardisation is agreed for 320/330 with 350 to come this November. My understanding is that the galleys, equipment and seat design will be standardised but each airline can choose their mix between economy and business. Is that your understanding or will they share the same configure too? I have been confused reading it but I did see that they can be changed rapidly which I think means diff configs, which I think would make more sense.

Yup. Obviously BA, IB and EI will have a varying mix of F, J, Y+ & Y. The equipment locationd and galley layouts are the big things. Seats can be re figured in the hanger and the sircraft redeployed as IAG see fit. With equipment standardised the cabin crew from each airline will be familar with aircraft coming from other IAG carriers.

AndyBoBandy

In terms of livery then, would it ever be conceivable that they would have some aircraft with a multi livery/logo plan?

or would they just repaint the AC as they shuffle around the various operators as that wouldn't be economic would it? (unless they planned a transfer at the same time an ac was due a paint job)

roundymac

I love Ireland and the Irish way. Here we are with an outside chance of maybe getting A380s for a portion of the year and people are lining up to tell you why it can't be done.

basill

Would be a great country if it weren't for the begrudgery, weather, lack of a functional government and civil service......oh and exhorbitant taxes��

billy few mates

roundymac wrote: »

I love Ireland and the Irish way. Here we are with an outside chance of maybe getting A380s for a portion of the year and people are lining up to tell you why it can't be done.

Yeah, I much prefer the old days where we used to just go ahead and do stuff and then find out afterwards why it can't be done...

Irish Steve

What I've only just copped having looked at a site that gives the BA fleet mix, there are at present NO 330's in the BA fleet, they are all in IB and EI, which is strange given that there are members of every other Airbus size in their fleet. There's not that many more in the IB fleet, they currently have 13, though the distortion then is that they have a significant number of 340's, as well as 747's.

I also hadn't realised that there are no longer any 737's in BA, which is a massive change over time, approx 130 airbus narrow body aircraft have replaced just over 120 737's.

I also found myself wondering if BA regret selling off their 56 757's, given how the addition of winglets seems to have made them a very popular aircraft on long lower yield routes, the number that are regularly crossing the Atlantic is surprising, and as far as I know, BA never used them on that type of route, they were very much a higher capacity short haul aircraft when they were in active service.

The shift from 747's to 777's is also remarkable, but that's down to the operating economics, while fuel is a massive part of it, the maintenance costs of 4 engines compared to 2 is also a very significant factor, there is no doubt that the newer and larger engines are more economic to operate.

What is certain is that with EI now being part of the larger grouping, that will make it very different when comparing EI as a stand alone entity.

Pat Dunne

basill wrote: »

Would be a great country if it weren't for the begrudgery, weather, lack of a functional government and civil service......oh and exhorbitant taxes��

You forgot to mention Water Charges, Eircode, the HSE, Luas Underground and the price of Fish
Now back on topic. Is the next 330 due as a direct replacement or to augment the current fleet?

Tenger

Pat Dunne wrote: »

You forgot to mention Water Charges, Eircode, the HSE, Luas Underground and the price of Fish
Now back on topic. Is the next 330 due as a direct replacement or to augment the current fleet?

Incoming 2 aircraft are fleet enlargement. Remains to be seen if the 2 in 2017 are partial replacement

Van.Bosch

roundymac wrote: »

I love Ireland and the Irish way. Here we are with an outside chance of maybe getting A380s for a portion of the year and people are lining up to tell you why it can't be done.

Not sure if you're talking about me but my view on it is not that it can't/won't happen but why would it be seasonal? Iberia/BA and EI are all northern hemisphere airlines so share a peak season. The idea floated was that EI would use A380's in the summer to JFK for example. This could very well work but what do they do with the frame for the non peak sector? If you give it to another op co, then why would they allow it to leave in their peak schedule? If you keep it with EI fine but the initial suggestion above was for peak period.

Tenger

I think WW was really just throwing out a suggestion about possible options for purchasing 2nd hand A380's, imagine IAG getting them at knock down prices, using them for their peak season and perhaps short term lease elsewhere over their off peak? The statement continues to cause a storm of discussion. It could mean something or it could just be a red herring by Mr.Walsh.

In the long term IAG could be looking at Southern hemisphere expansion, or even going into leasing aircraft?
Just look at how the 3 major airlines in IAG no longer have a cargo section, it was all rolled into IAG Cargo. IAG actually has 4 airlines and a cargo company in its portfolio at present. Im sure we will see another 2 airlines added within 3-6 years.
Could it possibly go down the Lufthansa Group road of having its own separate maintenance company to cover some heavy MX for the entire group and external customers?

Dardania

Van.Bosch wrote: »

roundymac wrote: »

I love Ireland and the Irish way. Here we are with an outside chance of maybe getting A380s for a portion of the year and people are lining up to tell you why it can't be done.

Not sure if you're talking about me but my view on it is not that it can't/won't happen but why would it be seasonal? Iberia/BA and EI are all northern hemisphere airlines so share a peak season. The idea floated was that EI would use A380's in the summer to JFK for example. This could very well work but what do they do with the frame for the non peak sector? If you give it to another op co, then why would they allow it to leave in their peak schedule? If you keep it with EI fine but the initial suggestion above was for peak period.

Iberia has a lot of links to South America - maybe the winter use for Iberia could be to send people to summer in the southern hemisphere?

Fattes

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Not sure if you're talking about me but my view on it is not that it can't/won't happen but why would it be seasonal? Iberia/BA and EI are all northern hemisphere airlines so share a peak season. The idea floated was that EI would use A380's in the summer to JFK for example. This could very well work but what do they do with the frame for the non peak sector? If you give it to another op co, then why would they allow it to leave in their peak schedule? If you keep it with EI fine but the initial suggestion above was for peak period.

Probably more to do with the cabin configuration, very little desire or demand for 1st class seats in this part of the world and they are part of the money making stream on A380's. Chicago, does not have a regular A380 service, neither does Atlanta. Its not about whether it can or can't be done. It is simply about what is best for the airport and airlines.

Jamie2k9

While we don't know yet all 4 or just 3 aircraft will be used for growth, after doing a quick calculation if all 4 are used we are going to see circ 460,000-500,000 additional seats on transatlantic routes over the season.

Quiet a lot....

deaddonkey15

Apologies if this is not the right thread for this, but I came across picture on Facebook just now, it was uploaded 15 hours ago.

https://www.facebook.com/Aviation.ke/photos/a.932828240067645.1073741828.932812423402560/1392165114133953/?type=3&theater

Anyone know how this happened? Is this a recent incident?

Zonda999

I don't know of the particular incident but it was not recently because "St Brigid" was reg EI-CRK which left the Aer Lingus fleet in 2009

duskyjoe

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Apologies if this is not the right thread for this, but I came across picture on Facebook just now, it was uploaded 15 hours ago.

https://www.facebook.com/Aviation.ke/photos/a.932828240067645.1073741828.932812423402560/1392165114133953/?type=3&theater

Anyone know how this happened? Is this a recent incident?

This happened circa 6 years ago during a very bad storm. The aircraft was parked and got whacked by a savage gust of wind that spun the aircraft on the ramp and associated pic tells all.

deaddonkey15

duskyjoe wrote: »

This happened circa 6 years ago during a very bad storm. The aircraft was parked and got whacked by a savage gust of wind that spun the aircraft on the ramp and associated pic tells all.

Thanks, must have been some gust to swing a 330 like that!

EICVD

Happened New Years Day 2005

Bussywussy

Jesus look at some of the comments.According to someone in the know the new 330s FNG will be St.Colmcille and FNH will be st Lawrence o Toole,names already used before on 330s,suppose they ran out if makey upey saints.

Tenger

Bussywussy wrote: »

Jesus look at some of the comments.According to someone in the know the new 330s FNG will be St.Colmcille and FNH will be st Lawrence o Toole,names already used before on 330s,suppose they ran out of makey upey saints.

Colmcille was used on EI-JFK, one of the original A330s, Larry was used on EI-EWR when it first joined the fleet in the 2000s.
*I do have an unhealthy fixation with EI aircraft names since getting a copy of the 1986 company history book years ago.

Bussywussy

St.Molling....the patron saint of Eh troubleshooting.

roundymac

EICVD wrote: »

Happened New Years Day 2005

Martinair were subbed in to cover the JFK flights. My wife is still spitting teeth over it, worst airline she says she was ever on.I won't argue with her,,, I never win.:p