Beck Vs Beyonce

Ray Palmer

If you haven't seen Kayne West have a little hissy fit about Beyonce again he basically says Beck is less of an artist. It is just plain weird to even make this suggestion.

There is the list of about 20 people who apparently wrote the songs on Beyonce's album yet Beck has 1, himself.

Beck also plays many instruments yet I am not aware of Beyonce playing a single instrument.

Personal taste aside. I get she is talented but as a singer which does make her an artist but to suggest Beck is less of an artist is the height of craziness. Is he really that deluded?

Penn

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Kayne West

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Is he really that deluded?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Kayne West

Yes.

kneemos

Bat shet crazy every one of em.

gramar

Why anyone would give a toss about what Kanye West comes out with is beyond me.

AndyBoBandy

The fact that it was Kanye West making these claims automatically makes all claims null & void.

The fact that the interview he was doing with E, and they pretty much agreed with him because he is Kanye/Kim/Baby South East, and pretty much their entire source of material makes it all the more laughable.

Mr Freeze

gramar wrote: »

Why anyone would give a toss about what Kanye West comes out with is beyond me.

Couldn't agree more. He has little between the ears and nobody should listen to the rubbish he spews.

Nobody will be listening to his sh1te music in 20 or 30 years time.

He thinks he is the greatest performer/musician of all time. In my opinion I think he one of the most overrated.

nullzero

Kanye West wouldn't be getting behind Beyoncé if she wasn't black. The man has proven himself to be a racist in the past. His music is dreadful and his public persona is that of a complete fool. Everything he says can be dismissed out of hand.

Karl Stein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDMfTkxvHsY

AndyBoBandy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Nobody will be listening to his sh1te music in 20 or 30 years time.

Agreed,

(as a side note, I'm still listening to Beck's music from 20+ years ago)

Also, just to put things into perspective regarding being an 'artist'

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2012/7/11/10/enhanced-buzz-26211-1342017086-9.jpg

jamesbere

Karl Stein wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDMfTkxvHsY

dafuq

Caliden

It's hilarious that he actually told Beck to hand the award over to Beyonce.

RWCNT

nullzero wrote: »

The man has proven himself to be a racist in the past.

Not a chance.

The grammys is meaningless anyway.

cloud493

As a Swiftie, I'm obliged to dislike Kayne anyway, even after their fake make up scene.

AndyBoBandy

RWCNT wrote: »

The grammys is meaningless anyway.

I would disagree, ask anyone who's one a single Grammy (or more) what it means to them, what it means to be recognised by the industry they are in as being quite good at what they do.

Karl Stein

jamesbere wrote: »

dafuq

Do you like Fishsticks?

Yes?

Then you're a gay fish (you like fish dicks).

Kanye West was the only human on earth who didn't get the joke so, after much agonizing, he ended up accepting that he was a gay fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRLyxjZtkzY

kstand

Not the first time this moron came out and made an absolute tool of himself.

floggg

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. He has little between the ears and nobody should listen to the rubbish he spews.

Nobody will be listening to his sh1te music in 20 or 30 years time.

He thinks he is the greatest performer/musician of all time. In my opinion I think he one of the most overrated.

Well this is an equally stupid opinion as Kanye's.

You may not be a fan of his music, or hip-hop generally, but he is pretty much regarded as a musical genius within hip-hop and urban music.

An arrogant, space cadet of a genius, but a musical genius none the less.

Even his auto tune abomination of an album was pretty well received by auto tune abomination aficionados.

Calling his music ****e just because you don't happen to like it or him is as stupid as him calling Beck less of an artist than Beyoncé just because Beck ain't bootylicious and married to his bestie.

kylith

Anyone who thinks that Beyoncé is a more talented, creative, artist than Beck needs their frakking head examined. And I don't even like Beck, but I recognise that the guy has been innovating for decades.

floggg

nullzero wrote: »

Kanye West wouldn't be getting behind Beyoncé if she wasn't black. The man has proven himself to be a racist in the past. His music is dreadful and his public persona is that of a complete fool. Everything he says can be dismissed out of hand.

Racist? How so?

Tiger Mcilroy

floggg wrote: »

Well this is an equally stupid opinion as Kanye's.

You may not be a fan of his music, or hip-hop generally, but he is pretty much regarded as a musical genius within hip-hop and urban music.

An arrogant, space cadet of a genius, but a musical genius none the less.

Even his auto tune abomination of an album was pretty well received by auto tune abomination aficionados.

Calling his music ****e just because you don't happen to like it or him is as stupid as him calling Beck less of an artist than Beyoncé just because Beck ain't bootylicious and married to his bestie.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

floggg

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

I wholeheartedly disagree.

That's fine. Kanye wholeheartedly disagrees with those who consider Beck a great artist.

But the objective truth is that both are incredibly talented at what they do, even if what they do isn't everyvodys cup of tea.

Mr Freeze

floggg wrote: »

Calling his music ****e just because you don't happen to like it or him is as stupid as him calling Beck less of an artist than Beyoncé just because Beck ain't bootylicious and married to his bestie.

I don't like Beck either I should have added.

Kanye could be the most eloquently spoken and nicest person ever, and I would still dislike his music.

Ray Palmer

floggg wrote: »

That's fine. Kanye wholeheartedly disagrees with those who consider Beck a great artist.

But the objective truth is that both are incredibly talented at what they do, even if what they do isn't everyvodys cup of tea.

I accept there are taste differences but I am not sure what makes West a "genius". What is this musical talent that is so respected? As a marketeer I will accept he has proven himself to an extent.

Popularity doesn't indicate talent it can just be luck or people backing you up or going along with sheep mentality. Some people will buy into something just because of a perceived show of wealth or taste. The emperor has new clothes is a pretty old story.

If West wants to claim a multi-instrumental performer who writes his own songs and music is not an artist versus a person who has 20+ people writing songs and music for them is an artist they clearly have issues. It really doesn't require much debate

floggg

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I don't like Beck either I should have added.

Kanye could be the most eloquently spoken and nicest person ever, and I would still dislike his muwhichsic.

Which is fine. You don't have to.

But calling it ****e that nobody will listen to is just ignorant and close minded.

There are plenty of people who love his music, even if they think he is a dick (which he is), and he is undoubtedly talented.

Frigga_92

Beck is an artist, Beyonce is a product.

ghostdancer

floggg wrote: »

That's fine. Kanye wholeheartedly disagrees with those who consider Beck a great artist.

But the objective truth is that both are incredibly talented at what they do, even if what they do isn't everyvodys cup of tea.

depends on what you classify as "what they do" though.

West doesn't write his songs anymore, his last 2 solo albums (and 2 collab albums) have had several writers on each track, and up to 14 on some.

likewise, he doesn't create the music anymore, he has teams of producers doing this now for him. Blood On The Leaves for instance is a sample of Nina Simone and a beat he bought from TNGHT for a rumoured $1m....and it still had 4 other producers other than West and TNGHT.

10 years ago you could argue that he was incredible talented as he was writing and producing great songs,both for himself and others.

these days, I wonder what he actual does musically other than singing over tracks that are created wholesale by others, like the male version of rent-a-voice Rihanna.

Mr Freeze

floggg wrote: »

Which is fine. You don't have to.

But calling it ****e that nobody will listen to is just ignorant and close minded.

I should elaborate on what I meant by the 30 years comment. I was thinking of Bohemian Rhapsody when I commented.

Bohemian Rhapsody came out in 1975 and we hear it quite a bit on the radio, and to me anyways, its a real treat when its on.

I don't think anything Kanye can ever produce will ever be liked as much as that and won't be played any where near as much on the radio in the future and certainly not in 20 years + time.

That is just my opinion, and of course it could be completely wrong and we could be hearing Kanye forever, but I don't think so.

floggg

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I accept there are taste differences but I am not sure what makes West a "genius". What is this musical talent that is so respected? As a marketeer I will accept he has proven himself to an extent.

Popularity doesn't indicate talent it can just be luck or people backing you up or going along with sheep mentality. Some people will buy into something just because of a perceived show of wealth or taste. The emperor has new clothes is a pretty old story.

If West wants to claim a multi-instrumental performer who writes his own songs and music is not an artist versus a person who has 20+ people writing songs and music for them is an artist they clearly have issues. It really doesn't require much debate

I agree. Hes completely wrong on this one. Doesn't mean he isn't incredibly talented.

As for his talent, he is a supremely talented producer, writer and rapper. He's released 5 critically acclaimed albums in his own right one hugely successful collaboration album with Jay-Z, and had a number of huge worldwide hits.

He's also launched the solo careers of a number of other hugely successful artists, including most notably John Legend, produced or contributed to a number of classic albums by other artists and produced or featured on countless hit songs for other artists as well.

He is also credited with changing hip-hop's sound when he first came on the scene, as well as the perception of what a successful mainstream hip-hop artist should be.

None of that is luck or marketing. In fact given how much of an asshole he is he should be totally unmarketable.

Tiger Mcilroy

floggg wrote: »

That's fine. Kanye wholeheartedly disagrees with those who consider Beck a great artist.

But the objective truth is that both are incredibly talented at what they do, even if what they do isn't everyvodys cup of tea.

Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.

The word genius is trotted out for sportspeople and flavour of the month "artists" far to often.

You are wrong, its that simple.

marcbrophy

Beck was in an episode of Futurama.
Beyonce was not.

I rest my case :pac:

floggg

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I should elaborate on what I meant by the 30 years comment. I was thinking of Bohemian Rhapsody when I commented.

Bohemian Rhapsody came out in 1975 and we hear it quite a bit on the radio, and to me anyways, its a real treat when its on.

I don't think anything Kanye can ever produce will ever be liked as much as that and won't be played any where near as much on the radio in the future and certainly not in 20 years + time.

That is just my opinion, and of course it could be completely wrong and we could be hearing Kanye forever, but I don't think so.

Maybe, maybe not.

But Coldplay are also unlikely to receive the same level of acclaim in the future either. Not because of any lack of talent, but the more disposable nature of pop culture.

And Bohemian Raposdy is loved by people of that generation, but isn't embraced by the kids today.

Kanye has already done work which is still highly acclaimed and regarded 10-15 years later amongst hip-hop fans, and will be adored in the same way as Bohemian Rapsody amongst hip-hop fans in 15 more years.

I was just listening to some songs he produced nearly 15 years ago last night as it happened an they all stand the test of time.

shruikan2553

marcbrophy wrote: »

Beck was in an episode of Futurama.
Beyonce was not.

I rest my case :pac:

Anyone with sense would smash kanyes jar so they wouldn't have to listen to him anymore.

Love or hate his music, the man is a prick.

Tiger Mcilroy

floggg wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not.

But Coldplay are also unlikely to receive the same level of acclaim in the future either. Not because of any lack of talent, but the more disposable nature of pop culture.

And Bohemian Raposdy is loved by people of that generation, but isn't embraced by the kids today.

Kanye has already done work which is still highly acclaimed and regarded 10-15 years later amongst hip-hop fans, and will be adored in the same way as Bohemian Rapsody amongst hip-hop fans in 15 more years.

I was just listening to some songs he produced nearly 15 years ago last night as it happened an they all stand the test of time.

You giving yourself outs now, he has gone from a musical genius to being a standout performer in a niche market.

floggg

ghostdancer wrote: »

depends on what you classify as "what they do" though.

West doesn't write his songs anymore, his last 2 solo albums (and 2 collab albums) have had several writers on each track, and up to 14 on some.

likewise, he doesn't create the music anymore, he has teams of producers doing this now for him. Blood On The Leaves for instance is a sample of Nina Simone and a beat he bought from TNGHT for a rumoured $1m....and it still had 4 other producers other than West and TNGHT.

10 years ago you could argue that he was incredible talented as he was writing and producing great songs,both for himself and others.

these days, I wonder what he actual does musically other than singing over tracks that are created wholesale by others, like the male version of rent-a-voice Rihanna.

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.

The word genius is trotted out for sportspeople and flavour of the month "artists" far to often.

You are wrong, its that simple.

I don't think Kanye collaborates the way he does because he is unable of doing it (creating good music) by himself - it's because he likes to draw off others and take bits and pieces from them to make a better whole than he could produce himself.

He said from the very start of his career he had no problem borrowing drum patterns from Pete Rock and others if he thought what they did could make his song better.

He's not just letting others do the work, he takes what he likes from them and then adds his own elements to make it better, or else asks them to come in and tweak what he has already done. as you said blood on the leaves had 4 producers so he didn't just take the ready made beat and run with it.

Rick Rubin has already said that for Kanye already had much of Yeezus done, but brought in Rick Rubin to rework it as Kanye couldn't achieve the minimalist sound he wanted on his own. I know he's gotten Just Blaze and Timbaland to come in and do elements for him before on different songs when he couldn't get it right.

I would imagine he works similar to Dr Dre in that he works best with others than on his own, but what he achieves with them is greater than anything they could do on their own.

Dre has always shared production credits with others, but few people would ever dare argue that he wasn't amazingly talented in his own right.

It's not like Elvis and the Rolling Stones didn't borrow heavily from contemporaries in order to create their sounds.

Tilly

I cannot stress how much of a gimp i think Kanye is. God like me hole!!!

floggg

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

You giving yourself outs now, he has gone from a musical genius to being a standout performer in a niche market.

Not really.

Bob Dylan is a musical genius. But it's mainly fans of folk music that listen to him these days.

If he was to release his best material today it would be ignored outside of niche markets. It still wouldn't take away from his genius though.

And hip-hop is far from niche these days.

suicide_circus

Damn it Beck, why do you have to be a scientologist...

RWCNT

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category.

I know this stuff is all subjective but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How many songs did Elvis write?

super_furry

Beck rocked the absolute bollocks out of Electric Picnic last year, Beyonce didnt. Beck wins!

Ray Palmer

floggg wrote: »

I agree. Hes completely wrong on this one. Doesn't mean he isn't incredibly talented.

As for his talent, he is a supremely talented producer, writer and rapper. He's released 5 critically acclaimed albums in his own right one hugely successful collaboration album with Jay-Z, and had a number of huge worldwide hits.

He's also launched the solo careers of a number of other hugely successful artists, including most notably John Legend, produced or contributed to a number of classic albums by other artists and produced or featured on countless hit songs for other artists as well.

He is also credited with changing hip-hop's sound when he first came on the scene, as well as the perception of what a successful mainstream hip-hop artist should be.

None of that is luck or marketing. In fact given how much of an asshole he is he should be totally unmarketable.

You just described how he has been good at marketing. A talented producer as a show of artistry is a relatively recent idea and again is a marketed idea primarily coming from the hip-hop music scene. When it comes to calling something "classic" I think you are really stretching it. Having a hit making formula has a limited run and has been proven time over. It is luck to an extent. Stock,Akin and Waterman, Brill factory, Motown, Phil Specter, Sun Records etc... They were lucky on hitting on a formula that worked in their time. Does require talent but with the exception of Phil Specter calling it genius is over doing it.
West relies heavily on marketing and branding as did P Diddy who is a major influence on West and was also touted in a very similar vein. When the dust settles what you praise him for now will be a lot smaller in collective memory outside people who are devoted to the particular genre.

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.

Can't agree with Elvis. I do personally like him but he really was not much more. Any song credited to him as the writer is really not true and there aren't really even that many, I suspect similarly with Beyonce. He was white and could sing "black" music. Things were incredibly racist at the time the recording industry was just waiting for the right guy and actively looking for somebody like him. Not to take away from what he achieved and did to music but ultimately he was a product at the start. Great singer and I would no take that away from him or Beyonce

Tiger Mcilroy

RWCNT wrote: »

I know this stuff is all subjective but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How many songs did Elvis write?

Yeah elvis isnt a musical legend...its hardly like he had an impact on billions of music fans around the world for the last 50 years or more.

oh wait..yes he did.

gtf.

RWCNT

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Yeah elvis isnt a musical legend...its hardly like he had an impact on billions of music fans around the world for the last 50 years or more.

oh wait..yes he did.

gtf.

You said he was a genius. He barely wrote, produced or arranged anything.

Legend, sure, genius is very hard to argue.

blue note

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If you haven't seen Kayne West have a little hissy fit about Beyonce again he basically says Beck is less of an artist. It is just plain weird to even make this suggestion.

There is the list of about 20 people who apparently wrote the songs on Beyonce's album yet Beck has 1, himself.

Beck also plays many instruments yet I am not aware of Beyonce playing a single instrument.

Personal taste aside. I get she is talented but as a singer which does make her an artist but to suggest Beck is less of an artist is the height of craziness. Is he really that deluded?

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

MojoRisinnnn

If Kanye is so in touch how he has not come to the conclusion that award shows are complete and utter bull****?

Ray Palmer

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

West is arguing he isn't an artist and Beyonce is and much more talented one at that so very much relevant. He went way beyond giving out about the award

Grayson

can we just start a global campaign to make sure that the stage is invaded next time kanye wins anything. Just the whole building should run up and start grabbing the mike and screaming he doesn't deserve it.

kylith

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

But Kanye wasn't talking about the Best Album, he was saying that Beck is less creative than Beyoncé, which is objectively nonsense.

Tiger Mcilroy

...double post

Tiger Mcilroy

RWCNT wrote: »

You said he was a genius. He barely wrote, produced or arranged anything.

Legend, sure, genius is very hard to argue.

This is an argument that has divided opinion for years, if we are the term genius apurely to writing songs then he cant be called a genius for sure.

IMO there a lot of other factors that have to be considered for example performing, raw talent or delivery among others and there hasnt been a performer since that comes close to having the same longterm impact he did so to use the term genius in this context isnt that far fetched.

If Kanye west is a genius then im happy enough putting Elvis up in competition to that view.

MojoRisinnnn

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

I would think the fact that one person basically created every idea, structured each arrangement and played near enough to every note on all of the instruments featured on the record is actually incredibly relevant.

smurgen

Beck is a music genuis.I've been listening to him for years. One of a few original artists left. Hes one of those you can't categorise conveniently . He has a wide range of styles . Song of his like we dance alone literally make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
I don't normally care about celebrity stuff but this has really ****ing annoyed me. Kw saying a real artist should get it.what a pig ignorant thing to say. Beyonce's **** all sounds the same and she roars he stupid ****ing meaningless songs.bow down me hole.