marcbrophy wrote: » Beck was in an episode of Futurama. Beyonce was not. I rest my case :pac:
floggg wrote: » Maybe, maybe not. But Coldplay are also unlikely to receive the same level of acclaim in the future either. Not because of any lack of talent, but the more disposable nature of pop culture. And Bohemian Raposdy is loved by people of that generation, but isn't embraced by the kids today. Kanye has already done work which is still highly acclaimed and regarded 10-15 years later amongst hip-hop fans, and will be adored in the same way as Bohemian Rapsody amongst hip-hop fans in 15 more years. I was just listening to some songs he produced nearly 15 years ago last night as it happened an they all stand the test of time.
ghostdancer wrote: » depends on what you classify as "what they do" though. West doesn't write his songs anymore, his last 2 solo albums (and 2 collab albums) have had several writers on each track, and up to 14 on some. likewise, he doesn't create the music anymore, he has teams of producers doing this now for him. Blood On The Leaves for instance is a sample of Nina Simone and a beat he bought from TNGHT for a rumoured $1m....and it still had 4 other producers other than West and TNGHT. 10 years ago you could argue that he was incredible talented as he was writing and producing great songs,both for himself and others. these days, I wonder what he actual does musically other than singing over tracks that are created wholesale by others, like the male version of rent-a-voice Rihanna.
Tiger Mcilroy wrote: » Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius. Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has. The word genius is trotted out for sportspeople and flavour of the month "artists" far to often. You are wrong, its that simple.
Tiger Mcilroy wrote: » You giving yourself outs now, he has gone from a musical genius to being a standout performer in a niche market.
Tiger Mcilroy wrote: » Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category.
floggg wrote: » I agree. Hes completely wrong on this one. Doesn't mean he isn't incredibly talented. As for his talent, he is a supremely talented producer, writer and rapper. He's released 5 critically acclaimed albums in his own right one hugely successful collaboration album with Jay-Z, and had a number of huge worldwide hits. He's also launched the solo careers of a number of other hugely successful artists, including most notably John Legend, produced or contributed to a number of classic albums by other artists and produced or featured on countless hit songs for other artists as well. He is also credited with changing hip-hop's sound when he first came on the scene, as well as the perception of what a successful mainstream hip-hop artist should be. None of that is luck or marketing. In fact given how much of an asshole he is he should be totally unmarketable.
Tiger Mcilroy wrote: » Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.
RWCNT wrote: » I know this stuff is all subjective but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How many songs did Elvis write?
Tiger Mcilroy wrote: » Yeah elvis isnt a musical legend...its hardly like he had an impact on billions of music fans around the world for the last 50 years or more. oh wait..yes he did. gtf.
Ray Palmer wrote: » If you haven't seen Kayne West have a little hissy fit about Beyonce again he basically says Beck is less of an artist. It is just plain weird to even make this suggestion. There is the list of about 20 people who apparently wrote the songs on Beyonce's album yet Beck has 1, himself. Beck also plays many instruments yet I am not aware of Beyonce playing a single instrument. Personal taste aside. I get she is talented but as a singer which does make her an artist but to suggest Beck is less of an artist is the height of craziness. Is he really that deluded?
blue note wrote: » I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.
RWCNT wrote: » You said he was a genius. He barely wrote, produced or arranged anything. Legend, sure, genius is very hard to argue.
Mr Freeze wrote: » Out of interest, did Beck respond at all in the media?
smurgen wrote: » Yes he basically said he was just happy to have a legend like kanye on the stage and that he was surprised to win too.being too nice Ffs
Ray Palmer wrote: » West is arguing he isn't an artist
Mr Freeze wrote: » Out of interest, did Beck respond at all in the media? EDIT: Just googled it. He praised Kanye despite what Kanye said.
Ray Palmer wrote: » You just described how he has been good at marketing. A talented producer as a show of artistry is a relatively recent idea and again is a marketed idea primarily coming from the hip-hop music scene. When it comes to calling something "classic" I think you are really stretching it. Having a hit making formula has a limited run and has been proven time over. It is luck to an extent. Stock,Akin and Waterman, Brill factory, Motown, Phil Specter, Sun Records etc... They were lucky on hitting on a formula that worked in their time. Does require talent but with the exception of Phil Specter calling it genius is over doing it. West relies heavily on marketing and branding as did P Diddy who is a major influence on West and was also touted in a very similar vein. When the dust settles what you praise him for now will be a lot smaller in collective memory outside people who are devoted to the particular genre. Can't agree with Elvis. I do personally like him but he really was not much more. Any song credited to him as the writer is really not true and there aren't really even that many, I suspect similarly with Beyonce. He was white and could sing "black" music. Things were incredibly racist at the time the recording industry was just waiting for the right guy and actively looking for somebody like him. Not to take away from what he achieved and did to music but ultimately he was a product at the start. Great singer and I would no take that away from him or Beyonce
MojoRisinnnn wrote: » I would think the fact that one person basically created every idea, structured each arrangement and played near enough to every note on all of the instruments featured on the record is actually incredibly relevant.
floggg wrote: » Not really.Bob Dylan is a musical genius. But it's mainly fans of folk music that listen to him these days. If he was to release his best material today it would be ignored outside of niche markets. It still wouldn't take away from his genius though. And hip-hop is far from niche these days.
