Beck Vs Beyonce

shruikan2553 · 10-02-2015 11:12AM

marcbrophy wrote: »

Beck was in an episode of Futurama.
Beyonce was not.

I rest my case :pac:

Anyone with sense would smash kanyes jar so they wouldn't have to listen to him anymore.

Love or hate his music, the man is a prick.

Tiger Mcilroy · 10-02-2015 11:22AM

floggg wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not.

But Coldplay are also unlikely to receive the same level of acclaim in the future either. Not because of any lack of talent, but the more disposable nature of pop culture.

And Bohemian Raposdy is loved by people of that generation, but isn't embraced by the kids today.

Kanye has already done work which is still highly acclaimed and regarded 10-15 years later amongst hip-hop fans, and will be adored in the same way as Bohemian Rapsody amongst hip-hop fans in 15 more years.

I was just listening to some songs he produced nearly 15 years ago last night as it happened an they all stand the test of time.

You giving yourself outs now, he has gone from a musical genius to being a standout performer in a niche market.

floggg · 10-02-2015 11:25AM

ghostdancer wrote: »

depends on what you classify as "what they do" though.

West doesn't write his songs anymore, his last 2 solo albums (and 2 collab albums) have had several writers on each track, and up to 14 on some.

likewise, he doesn't create the music anymore, he has teams of producers doing this now for him. Blood On The Leaves for instance is a sample of Nina Simone and a beat he bought from TNGHT for a rumoured $1m....and it still had 4 other producers other than West and TNGHT.

10 years ago you could argue that he was incredible talented as he was writing and producing great songs,both for himself and others.

these days, I wonder what he actual does musically other than singing over tracks that are created wholesale by others, like the male version of rent-a-voice Rihanna.

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.

The word genius is trotted out for sportspeople and flavour of the month "artists" far to often.

You are wrong, its that simple.

I don't think Kanye collaborates the way he does because he is unable of doing it (creating good music) by himself - it's because he likes to draw off others and take bits and pieces from them to make a better whole than he could produce himself.

He said from the very start of his career he had no problem borrowing drum patterns from Pete Rock and others if he thought what they did could make his song better.

He's not just letting others do the work, he takes what he likes from them and then adds his own elements to make it better, or else asks them to come in and tweak what he has already done. as you said blood on the leaves had 4 producers so he didn't just take the ready made beat and run with it.

Rick Rubin has already said that for Kanye already had much of Yeezus done, but brought in Rick Rubin to rework it as Kanye couldn't achieve the minimalist sound he wanted on his own. I know he's gotten Just Blaze and Timbaland to come in and do elements for him before on different songs when he couldn't get it right.

I would imagine he works similar to Dr Dre in that he works best with others than on his own, but what he achieves with them is greater than anything they could do on their own.

Dre has always shared production credits with others, but few people would ever dare argue that he wasn't amazingly talented in his own right.

It's not like Elvis and the Rolling Stones didn't borrow heavily from contemporaries in order to create their sounds.

Tilly · 10-02-2015 11:29AM

I cannot stress how much of a gimp i think Kanye is. God like me hole!!!

floggg · 10-02-2015 11:33AM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

You giving yourself outs now, he has gone from a musical genius to being a standout performer in a niche market.

Not really.

Bob Dylan is a musical genius. But it's mainly fans of folk music that listen to him these days.

If he was to release his best material today it would be ignored outside of niche markets. It still wouldn't take away from his genius though.

And hip-hop is far from niche these days.

suicide_circus · 10-02-2015 11:52AM

Damn it Beck, why do you have to be a scientologist...

RWCNT · 10-02-2015 11:54AM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Im purely referencing the Genius part of your post, this man is not a musical genius.

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category.

I know this stuff is all subjective but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How many songs did Elvis write?

super_furry · 10-02-2015 11:55AM

Beck rocked the absolute bollocks out of Electric Picnic last year, Beyonce didnt. Beck wins!

Ray Palmer · 10-02-2015 12:01PM

floggg wrote: »

I agree. Hes completely wrong on this one. Doesn't mean he isn't incredibly talented.

As for his talent, he is a supremely talented producer, writer and rapper. He's released 5 critically acclaimed albums in his own right one hugely successful collaboration album with Jay-Z, and had a number of huge worldwide hits.

He's also launched the solo careers of a number of other hugely successful artists, including most notably John Legend, produced or contributed to a number of classic albums by other artists and produced or featured on countless hit songs for other artists as well.

He is also credited with changing hip-hop's sound when he first came on the scene, as well as the perception of what a successful mainstream hip-hop artist should be.

None of that is luck or marketing. In fact given how much of an asshole he is he should be totally unmarketable.

You just described how he has been good at marketing. A talented producer as a show of artistry is a relatively recent idea and again is a marketed idea primarily coming from the hip-hop music scene. When it comes to calling something "classic" I think you are really stretching it. Having a hit making formula has a limited run and has been proven time over. It is luck to an extent. Stock,Akin and Waterman, Brill factory, Motown, Phil Specter, Sun Records etc... They were lucky on hitting on a formula that worked in their time. Does require talent but with the exception of Phil Specter calling it genius is over doing it.
West relies heavily on marketing and branding as did P Diddy who is a major influence on West and was also touted in a very similar vein. When the dust settles what you praise him for now will be a lot smaller in collective memory outside people who are devoted to the particular genre.

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Elvis, the beatles, the rolling stones, david bowie.. these are the calibre of musicians i would put in that category. Kanye west is simply not a musical genius and as others have pointed out his music is now essentially paint by numbers for all the input he has.

Can't agree with Elvis. I do personally like him but he really was not much more. Any song credited to him as the writer is really not true and there aren't really even that many, I suspect similarly with Beyonce. He was white and could sing "black" music. Things were incredibly racist at the time the recording industry was just waiting for the right guy and actively looking for somebody like him. Not to take away from what he achieved and did to music but ultimately he was a product at the start. Great singer and I would no take that away from him or Beyonce

Tiger Mcilroy · 10-02-2015 12:03PM

RWCNT wrote: »

I know this stuff is all subjective but I don't think you know what you're talking about. How many songs did Elvis write?

Yeah elvis isnt a musical legend...its hardly like he had an impact on billions of music fans around the world for the last 50 years or more.

oh wait..yes he did.

gtf.

RWCNT · 10-02-2015 12:05PM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Yeah elvis isnt a musical legend...its hardly like he had an impact on billions of music fans around the world for the last 50 years or more.

oh wait..yes he did.

gtf.

You said he was a genius. He barely wrote, produced or arranged anything.

Legend, sure, genius is very hard to argue.

blue note · 10-02-2015 12:09PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If you haven't seen Kayne West have a little hissy fit about Beyonce again he basically says Beck is less of an artist. It is just plain weird to even make this suggestion.

There is the list of about 20 people who apparently wrote the songs on Beyonce's album yet Beck has 1, himself.

Beck also plays many instruments yet I am not aware of Beyonce playing a single instrument.

Personal taste aside. I get she is talented but as a singer which does make her an artist but to suggest Beck is less of an artist is the height of craziness. Is he really that deluded?

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

MojoRisinnnn · 10-02-2015 12:10PM

If Kanye is so in touch how he has not come to the conclusion that award shows are complete and utter bull****?

Ray Palmer · 10-02-2015 12:13PM

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

West is arguing he isn't an artist and Beyonce is and much more talented one at that so very much relevant. He went way beyond giving out about the award

Grayson · 10-02-2015 12:17PM

can we just start a global campaign to make sure that the stage is invaded next time kanye wins anything. Just the whole building should run up and start grabbing the mike and screaming he doesn't deserve it.

kylith · 10-02-2015 12:17PM

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

But Kanye wasn't talking about the Best Album, he was saying that Beck is less creative than Beyoncé, which is objectively nonsense.

Tiger Mcilroy · 10-02-2015 12:18PM

...double post

Tiger Mcilroy · 10-02-2015 12:21PM

RWCNT wrote: »

You said he was a genius. He barely wrote, produced or arranged anything.

Legend, sure, genius is very hard to argue.

This is an argument that has divided opinion for years, if we are the term genius apurely to writing songs then he cant be called a genius for sure.

IMO there a lot of other factors that have to be considered for example performing, raw talent or delivery among others and there hasnt been a performer since that comes close to having the same longterm impact he did so to use the term genius in this context isnt that far fetched.

If Kanye west is a genius then im happy enough putting Elvis up in competition to that view.

MojoRisinnnn · 10-02-2015 12:24PM

blue note wrote: »

I think the fact that Beck is a multi-instrumentalist and that he wrote the stuff is irrelevant. The award was for best album, not most talented musician.

I would think the fact that one person basically created every idea, structured each arrangement and played near enough to every note on all of the instruments featured on the record is actually incredibly relevant.

smurgen · 10-02-2015 12:32PM

Beck is a music genuis.I've been listening to him for years. One of a few original artists left. Hes one of those you can't categorise conveniently . He has a wide range of styles . Song of his like we dance alone literally make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
I don't normally care about celebrity stuff but this has really ****ing annoyed me. Kw saying a real artist should get it.what a pig ignorant thing to say. Beyonce's **** all sounds the same and she roars he stupid ****ing meaningless songs.bow down me hole.

Mr Freeze · 10-02-2015 12:34PM

Out of interest, did Beck respond at all in the media?

EDIT: Just googled it. He praised Kanye despite what Kanye said.

smurgen · 10-02-2015 12:35PM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Out of interest, did Beck respond at all in the media?

Yes he basically said he was just happy to have a legend like kanye on the stage and that he was surprised to win too.being too nice Ffs

dark crystal · 10-02-2015 12:38PM

smurgen wrote: »

Yes he basically said he was just happy to have a legend like kanye on the stage and that he was surprised to win too.being too nice Ffs

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin

e_e · 10-02-2015 12:43PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

West is arguing he isn't an artist

Actually in an interview afterwards he said "Come on man, I love Beck."

They're both great musicians anyway and if you don't like West's ego his production work on the albums The College Dropout, Late Registration, Dark Fantasy and Common's Be are undeniable.

ricero · 10-02-2015 12:46PM

They are both ****e

Dr. Mantis Toboggan · 10-02-2015 12:49PM

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Out of interest, did Beck respond at all in the media?

EDIT: Just googled it. He praised Kanye despite what Kanye said.

Did he?

A class act!

floggg · 10-02-2015 01:03PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You just described how he has been good at marketing. A talented producer as a show of artistry is a relatively recent idea and again is a marketed idea primarily coming from the hip-hop music scene. When it comes to calling something "classic" I think you are really stretching it. Having a hit making formula has a limited run and has been proven time over. It is luck to an extent. Stock,Akin and Waterman, Brill factory, Motown, Phil Specter, Sun Records etc... They were lucky on hitting on a formula that worked in their time. Does require talent but with the exception of Phil Specter calling it genius is over doing it.
West relies heavily on marketing and branding as did P Diddy who is a major influence on West and was also touted in a very similar vein. When the dust settles what you praise him for now will be a lot smaller in collective memory outside people who are devoted to the particular genre.

Can't agree with Elvis. I do personally like him but he really was not much more. Any song credited to him as the writer is really not true and there aren't really even that many, I suspect similarly with Beyonce. He was white and could sing "black" music. Things were incredibly racist at the time the recording industry was just waiting for the right guy and actively looking for somebody like him. Not to take away from what he achieved and did to music but ultimately he was a product at the start. Great singer and I would no take that away from him or Beyonce

I don't really know if you realise what a "producer" does Ian hip-hop. They are responsible for crafting the beat/music, while the rapper provides the vocals.

It's a fairly significant part of the process, and is not anything like production in the typical sense. They often supply a ready made track for the artist to lay the vocals over. They can often make more of a contribution to a song then the artist can themselves.

Also, Kanye West didn't just "luck" upon a formula - each one of his albums has had a markedly different style and sound. There is nothing formulaic about Yeezus for example, and it's a huge departure from his earlier stuff like College Dropout as well.

I don't think anybody would put Puff Daddy/Diddy in the same league as Kanye. Puffy tended to oversee things, not create. He was more of an executive than a musician - he barely wrote or produced anything himself.

floggg · 10-02-2015 01:13PM

MojoRisinnnn wrote: »

I would think the fact that one person basically created every idea, structured each arrangement and played near enough to every note on all of the instruments featured on the record is actually incredibly relevant.

Not to best album.

If Paul Gogarty wrote, performed and produced his own album in its entirety, his cd would still be nothing but a shiny frisbee.

It's not the fact that he did those things we should be impressed by - it's how well he did them that counts.

Gwynplaine · 10-02-2015 01:13PM

West is a Loser.

Birneybau · 10-02-2015 01:18PM

floggg wrote: »

Not really.

Bob Dylan is a musical genius. But it's mainly fans of folk music that listen to him these days.

If he was to release his best material today it would be ignored outside of niche markets. It still wouldn't take away from his genius though.

And hip-hop is far from niche these days.

Absolute RUBBISH that only folk fans listen to Bob Dylan, I've never heard such tripe.

Beck Vs Beyonce

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