Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai

Mrsmum

Also I have seen situations where a person gets on mid journey and you know they might be a young fit man or woman in his/her twenties say and there sitting in his/her prebooked seat is a man in his 60s or 70s sitting with his eldery wife. And you see the young person momentarily wondering what to do and then usually slinking away because how do you ask someone alot older than you to move when now the train is packed and there are no seats in carriage that you can easily point the intruder to?

Slutmonkey57b

Mrsmum wrote: »

Also I have seen situations where a person gets on mid journey and you know they might be a young fit man or woman in his/her twenties say and there sitting in his/her prebooked seat is a man in his 60s or 70s sitting with his eldery wife. And you see the young person momentarily wondering what to do and then usually slinking away because how do you ask someone alot older than you to move when now the train is packed and there are no seats in carriage that you can easily point the intruder to?

That's an example of people behaving reasonably. The "I want compensation" bleater is behaving unreasonably.

Guy:Incognito

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

Exactly! The person who reserved it should simply contact Irish rail staff and let them deal with it!!

Nobody said you cant go to staff, but whats the point? Its a simple 2 sentence conversation between two adults. Is this really the sort of **** that needs an official in a uniform to come and treat everyone like bloody kids.

Look, sit where you like, but if someone comes along with a ticket showing its their booked seat, just move. No need for confrontations, embarrassment, gardai, train drivers or anyone else.

ezra_pound

If you want to ride on a train and not be obliged to move you have to pay for the privelage. End of.

You have the choice and if you don't get a reserved seat ticket then you have noone to blame but yourself if you get moved on. I always reserve for this reason.

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

he doesn't have to move at all. doesn't matter who the contract is with. if irish rail refuses to make clear that a seat is reserved they are the ones who have broken the contract as they haven't ensured the reserved seat is occupied. they can easily resolve this by bothering to ensure the electronic displays are working and maintained properly, or having a written piece of paper with the details. as irish rail refuse to take responsibility for almost everything then foggys viewpoint is legitimate

So who makes it clear on a plane which seats are booked by who?

AlanS181824

Bizarre woman.

end of the road

Calina wrote: »

It's your responsibility to vacate a seat when it is pointed out to you that it is pre-booked by someone else. Irish Rail ask you to do this. Hiding behind "but it's not marked" when someone has a ticket with the seat number in their hands is actually irresponsible and makes it your fault, not Irish Rail's fault.

no . its irish rails fault if the seat isn't clearly marked reserved meaning someone sits in it. its irish rails duty to ensure a reserved seat is clearly marked as such. anything other then that is failing in their duty and excusing such failings

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

no . its irish rails fault if the seat isn't clearly marked reserved meaning someone sits in it. its irish rails duty to ensure a reserved seat is clearly marked as such. anything other then that is failing in their duty and excusing such failings

How do you get through life at all?

end of the road

Wang King wrote: »

No, im afraid once again you are incorrect

Any contract of sale is between the purchaser and the seller. Nothing more

When boarding an airplane, where is your name printed? on your seat ? On the window?... Eh?

i'm correct. as irish rail have not ensured the seat is marked reserved meaning someone sits in it, then they have failed in their duties to ensure that a reserved seat isn't occupied. airplanes are irrelevant

end of the road

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Nobody said you cant go to staff, but whats the point? Its a simple 2 sentence conversation between two adults. Is this really the sort of **** that needs an official in a uniform to come and treat everyone like bloody kids.

Look, sit where you like, but if someone comes along with a ticket showing its their booked seat, just move. No need for confrontations, embarrassment, gardai, train drivers or anyone else.

no, stay where you are until a member of irish rail staff comes along with proof of the reserved seat. this could all be avoided by irish rail clearly marking the reserved seat as such either via the electronic displays or the old way of a written piece of paper with the details, a method that always worked well

neckedit

end of the road wrote:

i'm correct. as irish rail have not ensured the seat is marked reserved meaning someone sits in it, then they have failed in their duties to ensure that a reserved seat isn't occupied. airplanes are irrelevant

maybe they have Failed....but mistakes happen everyday....try being a bit more mature about things.

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

no, stay where you are until a member of irish rail staff comes along with proof of the reserved seat.

Yeah, fair enough, if being a dick is your thing, by all means, take this route.

end of the road

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So who makes it clear on a plane which seats are booked by who?

i don't care about what happens on a plane. its irrelevant.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

i'm correct. as irish rail have not ensured the seat is marked reserved meaning someone sits in it, then they have failed in their duties to ensure that a reserved seat isn't occupied. airplanes are irrelevant

Can you direct us to the part in the conditions of carriage that supports your opinion?

Pretzill

I think prebooking obviously has it's advantages with prices in some cases being considerably less - but buying a ticket at the station will offer you far more flexibility of travel - a monthly return doesn't affect you pricewise if you unexpectedly have to change your travel times. Prebooking is for that seat, at that time, from that station - and extra charges will be incured if you need to change the time. Another reason why a prebooked ticket holder needs that seat they booked, regardless of reserved signs, they are tied to that ticket.

On occasion my carraige hasn't been there - so all the prebooked seats on say D are null and void - if one had to stand in this situation I reckon some compensation would be afforded especially on a long journey. For prebooked or non prebooked.

Van.Bosch

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care about what happens on a plane. its irrelevant.

Seems to be a lot of things in a lot of threads which you don't care about when they aren't in line with your opinion. Do you have a grudge against Irish Rail?

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care about what happens on a plane. its irrelevant.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your argument?

poeticmakaveli

i won't keep repeating myself,but with Irish Rail charges they should have have a full time escort dealing with these situations!
No there's no need for an argument but if i booked online and booked a seat ,i wouldn't have the heart to tell someone to get out of the chair,(i would personally let them sit there) but if i am a snotty nosed person then im not even confronting them! Irish rail are the rule makers,and are putting these offers in place! let them deal with it and ensure there is no misunderstanding! why should i get into an argument or fight for something they should be supplying without problems!
The whole set up is ridiculous anyway!
ok if i get on the train and i come up to a genuine person who's paid more than me for the right to sit on the train,and i tell them to get off the seat because there 55 year old a## couldn't book online then I'm really being an idiot and really looking down upon this person,and embarasising them,NOW if they get angry (which they would be entitled to be) and attack me physically, then i actually deserve it but again if i am a snotty nosed idiot i would imagine (someone that knows the law could verify this) I'm sueing Irish rail as this attack was on their train and it was their job or contract to make sure i can sit in my seat without any problems! why should 2 people have to embarass each other, 2 people who have both an arguent, why should they fight it out and let Irish rail not have to bother with it,especially when they are going around other times bending peoples ears about rules and regulations!!!
It's a ridiculous setup anyway that it's cheaper and easier to get a seat by booking online and the people (especially older generation) who don't know how to use this setup suffer by paying more and having less seats to sit on when they get on a train!
book online for cheaper rates is good, but no way should they be given a preference of seat over the people who pay more and are less literate when it comes to online booking!

Spanish Eyes

Is there a constant IR presence on every train (apart from the driver and the refreshments/cafe staff?)

I have rarely seen a uniformed IR person even just walking through all the carriages before it departs to make sure there are no problems with booked seats, no signage etc. and so forth.

To whom does one turn when an issue like this arises and one or both parties refuse to move?

A visible presence like this would surely take the heat out of such situations. A referee!

Now I'm sure some will come back and say yes, there is always someone in charge on the train, but TBH, I have never seen them, except ticket checkers who get on and off at intermediate stations.

In fact, one time I was taking my disabled mother to Cork. Prebooked the wheelchair seats, no problems. But.... during the journey the disabled loo doors would not open. I walked the length of that train and saw no one to whom I could address the problem. In desperation, I asked the cafe staff. They found someone, but where the hell he was on that train is anyone's guess!

He got the door fixed, and I didn't ask him where he was hiding either! Could have been one of the catering staff for all I know, no uniform or anything.

Just an observation!

Guy:Incognito

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

i won't keep repeating myself,but with Irish Rail charges they should have have a full time escort dealing with these situations!
No there's no need for an argument but if i booked online and booked a seat ,i wouldn't have the heart to tell someone to get out of the chair,(i would personally let them sit there) but if i am a snotty nosed person then im not even confronting them! Irish rail are the rule makers,and are putting these offers in place! let them deal with it and ensure there is no misunderstanding! why should i get into an argument or fight for something they should be supplying without problems!
The whole set up is ridiculous anyway!
ok if i get on the train and i come up to a genuine person who's paid more than me for the right to sit on the train,and i tell them to get off the seat because there 55 year old a## couldn't book online then I'm really being an idiot and really looking down upon this person,and embarasising them,NOW if they get angry (which they would be entitled to be) and attack me physically, then i actually deserve it but again if i am a snotty nosed idiot i would imagine (someone that knows the law could verify this) I'm sueing Irish rail as this attack was on their train and it was their job or contract to make sure i can sit in my seat without any problems! why should 2 people have to embarass each other, 2 people who have both an arguent, why should they fight it out and let Irish rail not have to bother with it,especially when they are going around other times bending peoples ears about rules and regulations!!!
It's a ridiculous setup anyway that it's cheaper and easier to get a seat by booking online and the people (especially older generation) who don't know how to use this setup suffer by paying more and having less seats to sit on when they get on a train!
book online for cheaper rates is good, but no way should they be given a preference of seat over the people who pay more and are less literate when it comes to online booking!

Your way overcomplicating and over thinking this (from reading the first couple of paragraphs anyway) .

end of the road

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Do you have a grudge against Irish Rail?

no, but when they can't do the simplest of things, continuously make excuses, and treat certain sections of their customers lesser then the rest, i find it hard to have sympathy for them or side with them

Graham

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

i won't keep repeating myself,but with Irish Rail charges they should have have a full time escort dealing with these situations!
No there's no need for an argument but if i booked online and booked a seat ,i wouldn't have the heart to tell someone to get out of the chair,(i would personally let them sit there) but if i am a snotty nosed person then im not even confronting them! Irish rail are the rule makers,and are putting these offers in place! let them deal with it and ensure there is no misunderstanding! why should i get into an argument or fight for something they should be supplying without problems!
The whole set up is ridiculous anyway!
ok if i get on the train and i come up to a genuine person who's paid more than me for the right to sit on the train,and i tell them to get off the seat because there 55 year old a## couldn't book online then I'm really being an idiot and really looking down upon this person,and embarasising them,NOW if they get angry (which they would be entitled to be) and attack me physically, then i actually deserve it but again if i am a snotty nosed idiot i would imagine (someone that knows the law could verify this) I'm sueing Irish rail as this attack was on their train and it was their job or contract to make sure i can sit in my seat without any problems! why should 2 people have to embarass each other, 2 people who have both an arguent, why should they fight it out and let Irish rail not have to bother with it,especially when they are going around other times bending peoples ears about rules and regulations!!!
It's a ridiculous setup anyway that it's cheaper and easier to get a seat by booking online and the people (especially older generation) who don't know how to use this setup suffer by paying more and having less seats to sit on when they get on a train!
book online for cheaper rates is good, but no way should they be given a preference of seat over the people who pay more and are less literate when it comes to online booking!

Here's how it should go avoiding embarrassment, unpleasantness or any kind of scene:

Normal Person 1) excuse me, I have a reservation for that seat.
Normal Person 2) no problem.

Guy:Incognito

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is there a constant IR presence on every train (apart from the driver and the refreshments/cafe staff?)

I have rarely seen a uniformed IR person even just walking through all the carriages before it departs to make sure there are no problems with booked seats, no signage etc. and so forth.

To whom does one turn when an issue like this arises and one or both parties refuse to move?

A visible presence like this would surely take the heat out of such situations. A referee!

Now I'm sure some will come back and say yes, there is always someone in charge on the train, but TBH, I have never seen them, except ticket checkers who get on and off at intermediate stations.

In fact, one time I was taking my disabled mother to Cork. Prebooked the wheelchair seats, no problems. But.... during the journey the disabled loo doors would not open. I walked the length of that train and saw no one to whom I could address the problem. In desperation, I asked the cafe staff. They found someone, but where the hell he was on that train is anyone's guess!

He got the door fixed, and I didn't ask him where he was hiding either! Could have been one of the catering staff for all I know, no uniform or anything.

Just an observation!

I use the train very rarely, but any time I have theres usually someone (an inspector? ) that comes through the carriage a couple of times.

end of the road

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why? Because it doesn't suit your argument?

no, because its irrelevant, and there will be staff on the plane to enforce any problems. on the train, one is left to their own devices come what may. that might be fine for dart and shorthaul commuter services, not for long distance regional and intercity services with limited stops

Calina

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

i won't keep repeating myself,but with Irish Rail charges they should have have a full time escort dealing with these situations!

Irish Rail's ticket prices are not outrageous; they are load controlled and if you're paying high ticket fairs, either you're buying last minute or you're on a busy train.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

No there's no need for an argument but if i booked online and booked a seat ,i wouldn't have the heart to tell someone to get out of the chair,(i would personally let them sit there)

On a busy train, I would ask them to move and have the right to do so. People are requested not to sit in seats reserved by other passengers and if you do sit in a seat that is reserved, you are not on the high moral ground. This is particularly case if we do not have a technical problem on the train, and the reservations are posted over the seats.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

but if i am a snotty nosed person then im not even confronting them! Irish rail are the rule makers,and are putting these offers in place! let them deal with it and ensure there is no misunderstanding! why should i get into an argument or fight for something they should be supplying without problems!

Irish Rail really shouldn't have to police this. The fact that they do is more to do with people being obnoxious than anything else.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

The whole set up is ridiculous anyway!

Really?

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

ok if i get on the train and i come up to a genuine person who's paid more than me for the right to sit on the train,and i tell them to get off the seat because there 55 year old a## couldn't book online then I'm really being an idiot and really looking down upon this person,and embarasising them,

Seriously, this is beyond stupid. It's not your business how they booked their ticket or how much they paid. If you booked in advance, that's your seat. If you're going to be obnoxious and deride them just because they didn't book in advance by suggesting how is this you put it again "there 55 year old a## couldn't book online", yes you're being an idiot. But this does not mean you have to give your seat up.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

NOW if they get angry (which they would be entitled to be)

They would not be entitled to be angry if you have a reserved seat and they do not.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

and attack me physically, then i actually deserve it

You do not deserve to be assaulted for requesting that someone vacates the seat that you book. If more people have your attitude, I can understand why Irish Rail need to enforce seat reservations.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

but again if i am a snotty nosed idiot i would imagine (someone that knows the law could verify this) I'm sueing Irish rail as this attack was on their train and it was their job or contract to make sure i can sit in my seat without any problems!

If someone assaults you for any reason you have redress to the court and justice system. You could probably sue Irish Rail but I dare say they'd want to apply some sort of travel ban to anyone assaulting any other passengers

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

why should 2 people have to embarass each other, 2 people who have both an arguent,

They really don't. Person with reservation gets seat, person without reservation does not. It really is that simple.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

why should they fight it out and let Irish rail not have to bother with it,especially when they are going around other times bending peoples ears about rules and regulations!!!

Seriously, in a country inhabited by grown ups, the person with reservation gets seat, the person without vacates said seat.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

It's a ridiculous setup anyway that it's cheaper and easier to get a seat by booking online

It really is not. It allows better capacity planning and analysis of passenger trends.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

and the people (especially older generation) who don't know how to use this setup suffer by paying more and having less seats to sit on when they get on a train!

My mother is nearly 80 and can book a reservation on Irish Rail's website. Most people who are older than me who do not have free travel passes can operate the website.

poeticmakaveli wrote: »

book online for cheaper rates is good, but no way should they be given a preference of seat over the people who pay more and are less literate when it comes to online booking!

This is complete nonsense. I've turned up and bought on occasion, not because I am less computer literate, but because I couldn't plan in advance. There are prices to be paid when you can't plan in advance and one of those is that people who can have opportunities that you don't.

end of the road

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is there a constant IR presence on every train (apart from the driver and the refreshments/cafe staff?)

I have rarely seen a uniformed IR person even just walking through all the carriages before it departs to make sure there are no problems with booked seats, no signage etc. and so forth.

To whom does one turn when an issue like this arises and one or both parties refuse to move?

A visible presence like this would surely take the heat out of such situations. A referee!

Now I'm sure some will come back and say yes, there is always someone in charge on the train, but TBH, I have never seen them, except ticket checkers who get on and off at intermediate stations.

In fact, one time I was taking my disabled mother to Cork. Prebooked the wheelchair seats, no problems. But.... during the journey the disabled loo doors would not open. I walked the length of that train and saw no one to whom I could address the problem. In desperation, I asked the cafe staff. They found someone, but where the hell he was on that train is anyone's guess!

He got the door fixed, and I didn't ask him where he was hiding either! Could have been one of the catering staff for all I know, no uniform or anything.

Just an observation!

nobody incharge apart from the driver, apart from cork and belfast services. the rest of us are left to our own devices come what may.

Guy:Incognito

end of the road wrote: »

no, because its irrelevant, and there will be staff on the plane to enforce any problems

Ive seen loads of people in the wrong seats on planes. Never has a staff member ever had to get involved . Person 1 says that my seat and show ticket, person 2 says, oh right sorry, and moves. But then , we're probably dealing with normal, rational people there..........

Why would you refuse to move if your in the wrong seat unless someone "official" makes you. That's beyond childish. In fact that's unfair to kids because they will usually comply.

end of the road

Graham wrote: »

Here's how it should go avoiding embarrassment, unpleasantness or any kind of scene:

Normal Person 1) excuse me, I have a reservation for that seat.
Normal Person 2) no problem.

or, irish rail ensures that the seat reservation is clearly marked either by using their electronic displays which are set up to do it, or via a written piece of paper with the details.

Calina

end of the road wrote: »

no, because its irrelevant, and there will be staff on the plane to enforce any problems. on the train, one is left to their own devices come what may. that might be fine for dart and shorthaul commuter services, not for long distance regional and intercity services with limited stops

There are two models for the planes: assigned seating and free seating. The two models are not mixed in the same way as they are on the train; this means that if you fly with Aer Lingus, typically you have assigned seats, if you fly with Ryanair, you have free seating although you can pay for the right to get on the plane first, a right whose benefit deteriorates the more people who do so.

That being said, what is guaranteed on a plane is that there will never be fewer seats than passengers.

Where seats are assigned, passengers on aircraft are capable of going to their own seat because they can read the seat numbers on their boarding passes and if they find themselves in the wrong seat, it is rare that they require the input of the cabin crew to sort out the mess.

Usually what happens is this:

"Sorry, I think you're sitting on my seat".

"Oh, I am terribly sorry. What row is this?"

"Row 23"

"Oh I should be in 24. I am really sorry. Let me just get out of your way."

___________

In my experience, what happens on trains is this:

"Uhem, I've this seat reserved."

"Oh. Oh right. Sorry about that. I'll go and find another one."

_____________

What doesn't happen is a drama involving "I got here first, get Irish Rail, call the guards, it's Irish Rail's fault, I'm not moving".

If it does, my sympathy does not lie with a person who has no assigned seat.

Graham

end of the road wrote: »

or, irish rail ensures that the seat reservation is clearly marked either by using their electronic displays which are set up to do it, or via a written piece of paper with the details.

And on any occasions when that doesn't work, refer back to my last post.