Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai

foggy_lad

neckedit wrote: »

what?? you can pre book a seat at any station? so guybooks seat from Maynooth to sligo....journey starts at Connolly. ....how is he meant to do this?

From Connolly the display over the seat should show "reserved from Maynooth" that way someone getting on at Connolly knows they must move in Maynooth but most times the displays don't work so well and on many occasions the seats don't show up as reserved until after the stop they were reserved from.(reserve a seat from Maynooth but it doesn't show as reserved until the train pulls out of Maynooth).

Corholio

foggy_lad wrote: »

From reading Irish Rail's replies to tweets from a twitter user who may be the person from the train it does appear that there is doubt over whether the names were actually displayed over the seats and if that is the case she has every right to sit in any free seat. It is also perfectly understandable that she would call the Gardai if she felt threatened or felt like she had been assaulted by two men who were arguing with her over a seat they claim was theirs.


Why or how would this make any difference at all? someone with free travel has the same rights on public transport as any other person.

The names above the seat are not and should not be the be all and end all of proof of reservation. A simple booking print out with seat number is plenty, even though it should not needed. If she sat down at what see thought was a free seat then fair enough, but when she was obviously notified it wasn't a free seat then she should have vacated instead of utterly embarrassing herself and completely wasting peoples and Gardai's time.

foggy_lad

Corholio wrote: »

The names above the seat are not and should not be the be all and end all of proof of reservation. A simple booking print out with seat number is plenty, even though it should not needed. If she sat down at what see thought was a free seat then fair enough, but when she was obviously notified it wasn't a free seat then she should have vacated instead of utterly embarrassing herself and completely wasting peoples and Gardai's time.

If you went to a cinema and sat in a seat which was free but were told to get up and find yourself somewhere else to sit in a packed cinema 20 minutes into the film because the person had the seat number printed on their cinema ticket you would not feel the same.

It is up to Irish Rail to notify ALL passengers of which seats are reserved and from which stations before the journey begins and when a passenger sits in what is a free seat they should not be asked to move regardless of what is printed on some other passengers ticket or booking slip.

The passenger who has the reservation then has the opportunity to seek redress from Irish Rail for failing to reserve their seat, they have no gripe or case to take against an innocent passenger who has sat in a free seat!

Sheldons Brain

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you went to a cinema and sat in a seat which was free but were told to get up and find yourself somewhere else to sit in a packed cinema 20 minutes into the film because the person had the seat number printed on their cinema ticket you would not feel the same.

It is up to Irish Rail to notify ALL passengers of which seats are reserved and from which stations before the journey begins and when a passenger sits in what is a free seat they should not be asked to move regardless of what is printed on some other passengers ticket or booking slip.

The passenger who has the reservation then has the opportunity to seek redress from Irish Rail for failing to reserve their seat, they have no gripe or case to take against an innocent passenger who has sat in a free seat!

This is nonsense. If a passenger choses not to book a seat then they run the risk of being displaced by someone who has, the exact way this information is conveyed is neither here nor there, although consistent treatment would be nice.

Jamie2k9

Irish Rail are to blame here and I hope it happens more as until it gets real media attention they will just continue to operate as they do.

The ICR fleet has just began it's 8th year of passenger service and we still do not have a reservation system that functions in any sort of acceptable way. This is not an once off problem, it is a daily problem and continues to get worse.

You turn up for a train on some services here (notable exception is that people do seem to take it seriously on Cork-Dublin) and you're looked at like you've two heads for daring to sit in your prebooked seat - with your name on it (literally) and with regular bilingual announcements asking people not to occupy reserved seats.

Not on 18.00 to Cork, will be a costly day for IE.

cofy

I don't travel on train a lot, but I did not know that seat could be reserved until it was pointed out to me. I was absolutely mortified that I did not notice a little sign above the seat. Are there any signs outside of the train that would let people know that seats maybe reserved?

foggy_lad

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

This is nonsense. If a passenger choses not to book a seat then they run the risk of being displaced by someone who has, the exact way this information is conveyed is neither here nor there, although consistent treatment would be nice.

Far from nonsense!

If the company wants to offer a service where any passenger can if they wish reserve a seat on most intercity trains then they MUST mark those seats as reserved on the trains at the start of the journey.

Picture the 6pm Dublin to Cork train filling up in Heuston on a Sunday when the Cork football team were in Croke park and the cork hurlers were in Thurles and there were hundreds of reservations from Thurles but nothing on the seats to indicate to those without reservations getting on in Dublin that about half the seats on the train were reserved from Thurles, there would of course be riots in Thurles.

So you would tell those who boarded in Dublin and sat in 100% free and unreserved seats to get up and stand for those boarding in Thurles?

It is nonsense to suggest that any passenger would be told or even asked to vacate a seat that had no reserved notice but was allocated to another passenger!

What do airlines do when they screw up and give dozens of booked seats away to walk up passengers? those who booked get told they are on standby and seek refunds etc. they certainly don't go onto the plane and tell passengers they must give up their seats because the company screwed up.

corktina

it does seem the case to me that reservations for persons joining en route are not shown until that point in the journey. Please tell me I am wrong!

cython

neckedit wrote:

what?? you can pre book a seat at any station? so guybooks seat from Maynooth to sligo....journey starts at Connolly. ....how is he meant to do this?

Actually this seems to be another of Irish Rail's maddening inconsistency. I had to book a train from Dublin to Enniscorthy late last year. I work in the city centre on the south side so Pearse and Tara Street are the stations most convenient to me, and both are served by the train I wanted to book. However, to my amazement, I could only book online if I elected to start my journey from Connolly, and given that I wanted to avail of a taxsaver discount, I had to book online. In the end I did this but it's shambolic to have to do so.

The level of inconsistency and poor service epitomises why I have eschewed the train for my bike for commuting as of this month. Oh, and on the return journey seat reservations weren't displayed!

neckedit

foggy_lad wrote:

From Connolly the display over the seat should show "reserved from Maynooth" that way someone getting on at Connolly knows they must move in Maynooth but most times the displays don't work so well and on many occasions the seats don't show up as reserved until after the stop they were reserved from.(reserve a seat from Maynooth but it doesn't show as reserved until the train pulls out of Maynooth).

Thanks for that. ...but that still doesn't address the point I was challenging about the Reserved Customer having to turn up 20 mins early. I'm an infrequent IR user 5/6 times a year, always book my seat. Never had to ask anyone to move......but I have been asked a couple of times, no hassles.

neckedit

foggy_lad wrote:

If you went to a cinema and sat in a seat which was free but were told to get up and find yourself somewhere else to sit in a packed cinema 20 minutes into the film because the person had the seat number printed on their cinema ticket you would not feel the same.

Absolutely not!! the seat has been reserved, nothing else matters, time nor location. ^You move when asked politely. ...you dont act like a self righteous diva, call the cops and delay a train full of passengers going about their business, when clearly there was not threats or physical contact made.

Mesrine65

punisher5112 wrote: »

She should be slapped with a fish.

FYP

LXFlyer

cython wrote: »

Actually this seems to be another of Irish Rail's maddening inconsistency. I had to book a train from Dublin to Enniscorthy late last year. I work in the city centre on the south side so Pearse and Tara Street are the stations most convenient to me, and both are served by the train I wanted to book. However, to my amazement, I could only book online if I elected to start my journey from Connolly, and given that I wanted to avail of a taxsaver discount, I had to book online. In the end I did this but it's shambolic to have to do so.

The level of inconsistency and poor service epitomises why I have eschewed the train for my bike for commuting as of this month. Oh, and on the return journey seat reservations weren't displayed!

While I can't explain that oddity, you could have still boarded at Tara Street or Pearse - the three city centre stations are treated as one for fare purposes.

listermint

In the UK is you are in the wrong carriage you are shuffled along by the inspector make no bones about it. Irish rail should be doing this.


That woman should be charged for wasting Gardai time though.

She is seriously deluded.

I've never had a free seat on IR despite being booked and named on advance. Most people are scumbags I've found and we're dragged up. Acting on the presence they didn't see my full name above the seat.

Chancers.

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you went to a cinema and sat in a seat which was free but were told to get up and find yourself somewhere else to sit in a packed cinema 20 minutes into the film because the person had the seat number printed on their cinema ticket you would not feel the same.

Foggy, that is exactly what happens in Cineworld, the largest cinema in Ireland.

All tickets now have a seat number and you are required to sit in your indicated seat *

There was similar issues to this when it first as introduced a year ago, with people needing to move after they discovered they were sitting in the wrong seat, but for the most part, most people have learned to handle it with dignity and respect.

* You can select you seat when booking online or with the assistance of the ticket seller in person.

To be honest, I expect this issue comes down to free travel pass holders. I don't travel on the train anymore, but when I did, each time I found someone sitting in my seat, it was clearly a FTP holder. Because they don't have to actually pay for the ticket and just walk up to the ticket desk to get their ticket, they seem to think they are entitled to sit anywhere! You almost never see young professional people sit in other peoples seats. They booked online and selected their seat.

corktina

the last time I came out of London by train in rushhour there were many people standing but there were seats empty because they were reserved. No doubt they were taken up as the train departed if not claimed but it speaks volumes about the English attitude compared to the Irish version.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

it does seem the case to me that reservations for persons joining en route are not shown until that point in the journey. Please tell me I am wrong!

Often they are only shown AFTER the train has left the station the reservation starts from, so reserve from Maynooth and your reservation doesn't show till train leaves Maynooth station en route to Enfield

neckedit wrote: »

Thanks for that. ...but that still doesn't address the point I was challenging about the Reserved Customer having to turn up 20 mins early. I'm an infrequent IR user 5/6 times a year, always book my seat. Never had to ask anyone to move......but I have been asked a couple of times, no hassles.

The 20 minute rule harks back to the days of porters and people arriving with large carriage trunks etc which needed to be loaded in the guards van for the journey as they were shown to their reserved First or Second class seats. At those times and even today at many terminus stations people with reservations and those in first class are boarded earlier and separately to the great unwashed.

neckedit wrote: »

Absolutely not!! the seat has been reserved, nothing else matters, time nor location. ^You move when asked politely. ...you dont act like a self righteous diva, call the cops and delay a train full of passengers going about their business, when clearly there was not threats or physical contact made.

No no no, you are not seeing the problem!

The seat has not been reserved! The seat has only been reserved when irish rail give notice to passengers that this seat is reserved, they do this be the electronic signs or by placing a paper sign on the seat or sometimes by closing off a carriage(for groups like Railtours).

Unless Irish Rail give such notice of reservations then passengers without reservations may sit in any unmarked seat even if others "think" that seat has been reserved for them! (they may have been told by IR on their booking form or seat number printed on their ticket that the seat is reserved for them but IR then fail to physically reserve the seat!).

lxflyer wrote: »

While I can't explain that oddity, you could have still boarded at Tara Street or Pearse - the three city centre stations are treated as one for fare purposes.

But those boarding at Tara Street or Pearse Street will be 100& entitled to sit on any empty reserved seat as the person who reserved from Connolly is deemed to have forfeit the seat as soon as the train leaves Connolly Station!

bk wrote: »

Foggy, that is exactly what happens in Cineworld, the largest cinema in Ireland.

All tickets now have a seat number and you are required to sit in your indicated seat *

There was similar issues to this when it first as introduced a year ago, with people needing to move after they discovered they were sitting in the wrong seat, but for the most part, most people have learned to handle it with dignity and respect.

* You can select you seat when booking online or with the assistance of the ticket seller in person.

What happens in other places where seats are on a first up best dressed basis unless you specifically reserve a seat? it is up to the management and staff to mark seats as reserved and failure to do that means the seats can be used by any other customer.

To be honest, I expect this issue comes down to free travel pass holders. I don't travel on the train anymore, but when I did, each time I found someone sitting in my seat, it was clearly a FTP holder. Because they don't have to actually pay for the ticket and just walk up to the ticket desk to get their ticket, they seem to think they are entitled to sit anywhere! You almost never see young professional people sit in other peoples seats. They booked online and selected their seat.

How can you know this?

Also I have on many occasions boarded trains to see those same young professionals blocking seats on packed trains so others cant use them! they place their airline sized luggage on the seat or they put it down on the ground in front of the seat and place their coat bag etc on the seat beside them. more than once I have been told they had paid for both seats but they soon shut up when told that any unused seat is free to take once the person named does not take it up at the departure station. One person tried this while the ticket checker was within reach and was asked to show the ticket for the second seat and that was that!

If anything I have noticed free travel pass holders to be far more careful about where they are sitting so as not to cause upset or offence to others.

The people you have been encountering are those who believe the world owes them something/everything/ those who never worked a day in their life because they are entitled to everything and pay for nothing, they sit in reserved seats because they see people reserving seats as being snobs and they sit there to cause a commotion and annoyance and to be intimidating because making people feel uneasy and unsafe in their presence is really the only tool at their disposal!. You surely know the type of person?

h2005

So have we established whether the seat was clearly marked as reserved or not?

end of the road

h2005 wrote: »

So have we established whether the seat was clearly marked as reserved or not?

we probably never will establish whether that was indeed the case

Pretzill

I regularly travel with IR and nearly always prebook - sometimes the name does not show above the seat but that doesn't matter - if you prebook the seat number is on the ticket!

ezra_pound

The only solution is that everyone must reserve a seat... And sit in that seat.

LXFlyer

ezra_pound wrote: »

The only solution is that everyone must reserve a seat... And sit in that seat.

Given there are walk on fares, and people may decide to travel on a particular train from an intermediate station after it has left its departure station, that is impossible.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ezra_pound

Fred Swanson wrote: »

DB and other European railways can manage it with people boarding at intermediate stations.

Walk ups should be abolished and make reservations compulsory.

Exactly.

LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

ezra_pound wrote: »

Exactly.

Do we really want a totally inflexible system - I don't think so.

Irish people just need to be more tolerant of one another.

There are only certain trains that have compulsory reservations on the continent, and are usually only of the high speed variety.

The particular train in question, the 17:05 Connolly-Sligo, doubles up as a commuter service for many stations. Perhaps you could explain how having to have a compulsory reservation would ever work in that situation.

It is just not practical. Irish Rail would end up losing more customers than gaining them by doing what you suggest.

foggy_lad

Pretzill wrote: »

I regularly travel with IR and nearly always prebook - sometimes the name does not show above the seat but that doesn't matter - if you prebook the seat number is on the ticket!

You are wrong, this is ALL that matters!

The seat is not reserved until such time that Irish Rail place a notice on or above the seat to notify all passengers that the seat is reserved either from the departure station or reserved from X Y or Z station en route.

It would also appear from Irish Rail tweets to a twitter user who might be the person on the train that she was inviting Irish rail to have staff check her seat and see that there was no notification of any reservation!

If the seat was indeed not reserved this unfortunate woman will have a definite case against Irish Rail!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Graham

foggy_lad wrote: »

The seat is not reserved until such time that Irish Rail place a notice on or above the seat to notify all passengers that the seat is reserved either from the departure station or reserved from X Y or Z station en route.

There's nothing in the conditions of carriage to back that up Foggy, is it detailed in a bye-law somewhere?

foggy_lad

Graham wrote: »

There's nothing in the conditions of carriage to back that up Foggy, is it detailed in a bye-law somewhere?

it's common sense really, how are people to know NOT to sit in a seat if it is NOT marked in some way as reserved?

also ftrom the horses mouth

bur

bk wrote: »

Foggy, that is exactly what happens in Cineworld, the largest cinema in Ireland.

All tickets now have a seat number and you are required to sit in your indicated seat *

There was similar issues to this when it first as introduced a year ago, with people needing to move after they discovered they were sitting in the wrong seat, but for the most part, most people have learned to handle it with dignity and respect.

* You can select you seat when booking online or with the assistance of the ticket seller in person.

To be honest, I expect this issue comes down to free travel pass holders. I don't travel on the train anymore, but when I did, each time I found someone sitting in my seat, it was clearly a FTP holder. Because they don't have to actually pay for the ticket and just walk up to the ticket desk to get their ticket, they seem to think they are entitled to sit anywhere! You almost never see young professional people sit in other peoples seats. They booked online and selected their seat.

Did they smell? That's how i can tell the FTP mutants from us normals.