Kelly hits out at Irish domestic scene

wav1

12 sprocket wrote: »

Wav I'm sure that if the province was able to source a coach for the youth section that there would be others out there who would have an interest in developing the provinces Juniors.. There are lots of coaches who are volunteers and most coaches begin as volunteers..

And to be fair it looks like Leinster Juniors could benefit greatly by more coaching input. On the 2014 Junior tour leinster were last two teams on the Overall Team Classification. You clearly care about the cyclists as is seen by your original post, and are in a position to improve it.. I would respectfully suggest that the word is put out there for a good coach to work with the Juniors. And as I said before as one of the hardest working volunteers it would give you some space to concentrate on some of the other great work that you do.

Couple of points here.We had 3 x teams at JT 2014 and maybe 2 of them finished where you say.Cycling Leinster team finished further up,but as I don't have results to hand I don't exactly know but you know what,it doesn't really matter to me one little bit,because getting them there for experience etc is to me far more important.
Couple of factors.
For the past 2 yrs some of our best Leinster riders including the Nat R/R champion were on the NRPT team and we came to an agreement with the management that we wouldn't call on them.Reason why?It meant we were able to bring along some of the lesser lights to the event.Also last year a club from the province put in their own team.Again we didn't interfere as again it opened it up to more riders.That way last year Leinster had about 20 riders there even though only about 12 on Leinster teams.We do have 2nd call on any of them after National selectors,but always waived that right to help accommodate as many as possible.If we had our strongest 4 on the one team,then.yes we probably could have finished higher in the rankings,but that would have meant possibly 6 of our riders sitting at home instead..So for what its worth,thats where our priorities lie..Maybe you will disagree,but over the past few years we brought lads to the event,who might never had been there,if we were to concentrate on just our best lads,and some of them have turned out to be mighty fine senior riders.

12 sprocket

wav1 wrote: »

Couple of points here.We had 3 x teams at JT 2014 and maybe 2 of them finished where you say.Cycling Leinster team finished further up,but as I don't have results to hand I don't exactly know but you know what,it doesn't really matter to me one little bit,because getting them there for experience etc is to me far more important.
Couple of factors.
For the past 2 yrs some of our best Leinster riders including the Nat R/R champion were on the NRPT team and we came to an agreement with the management that we wouldn't call on them.Reason why?It meant we were able to bring along some of the lesser lights to the event.Also last year a club from the province put in their own team.Again we didn't interfere as again it opened it up to more riders.That way last year Leinster had about 20 riders there even though only about 12 on Leinster teams.We do have 2nd call on any of them after National selectors,but always waived that right to help accommodate as many as possible.If we had our strongest 4 on the one team,then.yes we probably could have finished higher in the rankings,but that would have meant possibly 6 of our riders sitting at home instead..So for what its worth,thats where our priorities lie..Maybe you will disagree,but over the past few years we brought lads to the event,who might never had been there,if we were to concentrate on just our best lads,and some of them have turned out to be mighty fine senior riders.

Well wav heres my last thoughts on it... Reading all your replies one thing is obvious the Junior tour is your gig as manager and you have no intentions of changing that whether it benefits riders or not! Bearing in mind that you began this thread with a criticism of Kellys view regarding him being concerned about the irish Juniors your attitude only confirms that Kelly should have concerns in regard to how some Juniors are being prepared and developed.

Certainly there's nothing in your posts that suggest there is any openness to bringing on Board a coaching element for these riders who as far as I have noticed receive little or none coaching before the Junior Tour from the provincial setup.. The junior Tour is a high performance International race and needs to be approached like that if riders are to benefit from competing in it.

To finish, a quote that might be worth reflecting on.. And best wishes for the season

" no man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for it"
Andrew Carnegie

slow

12 sprocket wrote: »

Well wav heres my last thoughts on it... Reading all your replies one thing is obvious the Junior tour is your gig as manager and you have no intentions of changing that whether it benefits riders or not! Bearing in mind that you began this thread with a criticism of Kellys view regarding him being concerned about the irish Juniors your attitude only confirms that Kelly should have concerns in regard to how some Juniors are being prepared and developed.

Certainly there's nothing in your posts that suggest there is any openness to bringing on Board a coaching element for these riders who as far as I have noticed receive little or none coaching before the Junior Tour from the provincial setup.. The junior Tour is a high performance International race and needs to be approached like that if riders are to benefit from competing in it.

To finish, a quote that might be worth reflecting on.. And best wishes for the season

" no man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for it"
Andrew Carnegie

Cycling Leinster has an AGM early each winter. wav1 has the 'JT gig' because he has let his name go forward to help out with youth and juniors. I don't think any of his sons are junior at present. Yet he hasn't zoomed off into the sunset as most parents do.

It's highly unfair to make the above comments. There's no canvassing in advance for Leinster positions (I think). Any willing workers are welcome to put their shoulder to the wheel. If you feel so strongly, put your name forward. I'm sure he'll be more than glad to share the load or pass it into capable hands.

That's presuming that you have coaching qualifications, are Garda vetted, and are willing to use your own vehicle as a team car for a week of your summer holidays. And will give the job a commitment of a few seasons for continuity as wav1 has done.

Hi Ho

It's interesting that in today's Stickybottle Kelly is quoted as saying - 'when teams like An Post-Chainreaction take in young riders and develop them for a number of seasons before they progress to ProContinental level or to the WorldTour, those larger outfits should pay a fee for them.!

If so, I wonder if this should be applied to all professional team - e.g. if a Coninental-ranked team like Kelly's should pay the clubs (or national bodies) that produced young Juniors they take on.

ednwireland

Hi Ho wrote: »

It's interesting that in today's Stickybottle Kelly is quoted as saying - 'when teams like An Post-Chainreaction take in young riders and develop them for a number of seasons before they progress to ProContinental level or to the WorldTour, those larger outfits should pay a fee for them.!

If so, I wonder if this should be applied to all professional team - e.g. if a Coninental-ranked team like Kelly's should pay the clubs (or national bodies) that produced young Juniors they take on.

if the riders contracted to the team fair enough. if fact doesnt that happen already ?

if your contracts ended tough s**t really, sign up riders on longer contracts if thats what he wants.

otherwise get into pro continental or world tour.

slow

Hi Ho wrote: »

It's interesting that in today's Stickybottle Kelly is quoted as saying - 'when teams like An Post-Chainreaction take in young riders and develop them for a number of seasons before they progress to ProContinental level or to the WorldTour, those larger outfits should pay a fee for them.!

If so, I wonder if this should be applied to all professional team - e.g. if a Coninental-ranked team like Kelly's should pay the clubs (or national bodies) that produced young Juniors they take on.

Conti teams operate on a shoestring. Many riders only get a bike and a jersey. Maybe accommodation and food, but they often don't even get the price of a cup of coffee in their local café per week. The Dave Rayner fund recognizes this and supports riders to live the dream.

The reality is that the dream often turns into a nightmare. Asking Conti teams to pay a fee for riders would mean less Conti teams in the long run.

wav1

Wasn't really going to dignify 12 sprockets post with a response,but I feel I must given that its more or less a personal attack on me[well that's the way I read it]
As slow has posted above,theres a Leinster AGM every year where the various roles are available and in 11 yrs there I haver never seen a queue for the jobs.

Cycling Leinster has a vacancy for coaching rep for the past 4 yrs and at no AGM etc has it been taken up,despite requests and enticing of several people.We have brought in various coaches to help over the past few yrs to help where they could [voluntary] and one whom we paid to come to a talks day.So don't even suggest that I or we are not open to coaches coming on board.

As for taking credit,i wont even start on that one,but have never sought any credit or shag all else,for the efforts.

Slow also stated and hes correct,the JT Gig is mine because nobody else has even offered to help us.Last year we had 6 x staff with 12 x riders to comply with code of ethics etc in relation to minors.
BTW after spending over a decade going to the Worlds I missed Florence and Ponferrada because I didn't have enough annual leave left to go.

Now you finished with some sort of quotation so heres mine.''Dont tell me how to tie up my laces until you have walked in my shoes''
BTW feel free to come to AGM and make urself available as a volunteer.

RobFowl

Going to add my tuppence worth.

Kelly, 12sprocket and wav1 are 3 people who I have the utmost respect for. Each in their own way have left their mark on Irish cycling and it would be in a worse state without their efforts.

I know what it's like to be attacked and criticised and its not nice but sometimes you just have to move on.

Keep on supporting Irish cycling lads and try to support each other as well.

To quote Jack Nicholson in "Mars Attacks" "Why can't we all just get along?"

Any more slagging here and I'm going to start posting Jim Reeves tracks.......

wav1

RobFowl wrote: »

Going to add my tuppence worth.

Kelly, 12sprocket and wav1 are 3 people who I have the utmost respect for. Each in their own way have left their mark on Irish cycling and it would be in a worse state without their efforts.

I know what it's like to be attacked and criticised and its not nice but sometimes you just have to move on.

Keep on supporting Irish cycling lads and try to support each other as well.

To quote Jack Nicholson in "Mars Attacks" "Why can't we all just get along?"

Any more slagging here and I'm going to start posting Jim Reeves tracks.......

Maybe ''He'll have to go''

RobFowl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpi8Bek6jdM

RobFowl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FhQxZnSqc0

Beasty

Christ - you're all showing your ages now!

I would though simply re-iterate Rob's comments. There's absolutely no reason for any of you (and I'll even throw Rob into the mix here!) to be subject to any personal criticism here. You have all contributed big-time to cycling in Ireland - certainly way above the vast majority both amongst those who contribute here as well as non-boardsies

H.E. Pennypacker

RobFowl wrote: »

To quote Jack Nicholson in "Mars Attacks" "Why can't we all just get along?"

To quote Sean Kelly: "The Irish are never happier than when they are arguing and plotting against each other".